|
|
"The Republican War Against Women" - the book
 Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2012-05-09 13:24:44
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »/sigh.
I just straight disagree with you, whether or not they request it or it's required for another reason is a moot point, it's still healthcare.
Healthcare should be a right, as it is required to live, as is shelter and food, these things should all be rights, as the extension of the guaranteed life.
Also there's all sorts of collective rights, which over impose over individual rights. Where do you think the idea of imminent domain comes from?
In my opinion, health care shouldn't be a right for a very simple reason:
The people who eat nothing but fast food and take no responsibility upon themselves to eat healthy, but still expect to live as long as people who actually give a ***about their health, end up using more of the monetary aid than the trying-to-be-healthy people.
So reduce taxes and let people take on some accountability. The people who eat nothing but processed foods can die earlier and the people who actually make an effort to eat fresh foods live longer.
Just wanted to note that a matter of being, or rather, eating healthy is a heavy conflict for those of lower monetary class. Our food provisioners on mass level rely on heavily processed and chemically enhanced (thus unhealthy) foods to meet the massive demands of our country while maintaining optimal shelf life. Such processes also allow for optimal pricing, which many rely on simply so they have something in their stomachs at the end of the night.
We have livestock being fed things they weren't meant to eat to grow or develop while simultaneously injected with growth hormone steroids to give optimal amounts of food per unit, which then become ingested by consumers. We also have genetically altered seeds that build immunity to various pesticides and chemicals, all while maintaining a sweeping domination of patient and law so nobody else can use any other types of seeds. This market of heavily processed food downright monopolizes the industry in terms of price and mass production, so competition of healthier foods tend to get elevated prices which I am sure many would be unable to afford, even at a relatively middle class level.
So we have this perpetuating cycle of unhealthy food being ingested by a vast majority of Americans, while the options to eat healthy tend to be limited to those with the privilege of being able to afford it. Ironically, all this cheap food is only cheap in short term, while being ultimately more expensive when health complications arise over time, as opposed to those that can initially dish out the money to eat healthy and not remotely suffer as much from the bodily consequences of overly processed and preserved foods.
So don't misunderstand people not eating healthy as a "choice"; because often times it's the only option for their means. Therefore we have this sort of clash of maintaining principal within our healthcare system, while simultaneously perpetuating this rich vs poor scenario.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. People don't have any other choice but to eat Mc Donalds? Anyone who cannot put 2 and 2 together to realize that you save more money cooking your own food instead of going to a restaurant doesn't deserve my sympathy. Grocery store foods aren't toxic, you don't have to blow 400 bucks at whole foods to "eat healthy".
I never mentioned McDonalds or restaurants , but if that was what you mustered from reading my post, then I really don't need to explain myself to you, since you tend to have a habit of misinterpreting and misrepresenting other people's words.
Hmm, your post indicated that there is a large underclass that is pretty much locked into a "heavily processed food only" diet. considering the numerous outlets that distribute food, the most concentrated sources of "processed foods" as part of their selection is fast food restaurants. Even they have healthier alternatives.
If you didn't mean those, I'm not sure how people are in such destitution but instruments other than their own choices as supermarkets offer a wide variety of healthy fruits, veggies, meats, breads, and dairy products.
By Jetackuu 2012-05-09 13:25:06
pulling out of a depression the only direction you can go is up.
pre ww2 is where I've studied more, post I haven't looked at much economically until the mid 70's.
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-05-09 13:26:12
When I've got $17 to last me the week, you're damned right I'm going to eat McDonalds. $3 for 2 burgers and a large tea is hard to turn down when you're really hurting.
sounds like you should quit trolling ffxiah and collect some cans or something, either way you're so far gone from the point of healthcare now You know everything about my life and are making effective calls about what I should be doing with my time. Thank you.
By Jetackuu 2012-05-09 13:27:01
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »/sigh.
I just straight disagree with you, whether or not they request it or it's required for another reason is a moot point, it's still healthcare.
Healthcare should be a right, as it is required to live, as is shelter and food, these things should all be rights, as the extension of the guaranteed life.
Also there's all sorts of collective rights, which over impose over individual rights. Where do you think the idea of imminent domain comes from?
In my opinion, health care shouldn't be a right for a very simple reason:
The people who eat nothing but fast food and take no responsibility upon themselves to eat healthy, but still expect to live as long as people who actually give a ***about their health, end up using more of the monetary aid than the trying-to-be-healthy people.
So reduce taxes and let people take on some accountability. The people who eat nothing but processed foods can die earlier and the people who actually make an effort to eat fresh foods live longer.
Just wanted to note that a matter of being, or rather, eating healthy is a heavy conflict for those of lower monetary class. Our food provisioners on mass level rely on heavily processed and chemically enhanced (thus unhealthy) foods to meet the massive demands of our country while maintaining optimal shelf life. Such processes also allow for optimal pricing, which many rely on simply so they have something in their stomachs at the end of the night.
We have livestock being fed things they weren't meant to eat to grow or develop while simultaneously injected with growth hormone steroids to give optimal amounts of food per unit, which then become ingested by consumers. We also have genetically altered seeds that build immunity to various pesticides and chemicals, all while maintaining a sweeping domination of patient and law so nobody else can use any other types of seeds. This market of heavily processed food downright monopolizes the industry in terms of price and mass production, so competition of healthier foods tend to get elevated prices which I am sure many would be unable to afford, even at a relatively middle class level.
So we have this perpetuating cycle of unhealthy food being ingested by a vast majority of Americans, while the options to eat healthy tend to be limited to those with the privilege of being able to afford it. Ironically, all this cheap food is only cheap in short term, while being ultimately more expensive when health complications arise over time, as opposed to those that can initially dish out the money to eat healthy and not remotely suffer as much from the bodily consequences of overly processed and preserved foods.
So don't misunderstand people not eating healthy as a "choice"; because often times it's the only option for their means. Therefore we have this sort of clash of maintaining principal within our healthcare system, while simultaneously perpetuating this rich vs poor scenario.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. People don't have any other choice but to eat Mc Donalds? Anyone who cannot put 2 and 2 together to realize that you save more money cooking your own food instead of going to a restaurant doesn't deserve my sympathy. Grocery store foods aren't toxic, you don't have to blow 400 bucks at whole foods to "eat healthy".
I never mentioned McDonalds or restaurants , but if that was what you mustered from reading my post, then I really don't need to explain myself to you, since you tend to have a habit of misinterpreting and misrepresenting other people's words.
Hmm, your post indicated that there is a large underclass that is pretty much locked into a "heavily processed food only" diet. considering the numerous outlets that distribute food, the most concentrated sources of "processed foods" as part of their selection is fast food restaurants. Even they have healthier alternatives.
If you didn't mean those, I'm not sure how people are in such destitution but instruments other than their own choices as supermarkets offer a wide variety of healthy fruits, veggies, meats, breads, and dairy products.
most of the food in the grocery stores is processed foods, and it's cheaper than buying fresh.
Even most of the "fresh food" in the supermarket is chemically enhanced.
[+]
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 507
By Siren.Inuyushi 2012-05-09 13:28:22
And if you find something labeled "Organic" read the label. Just the other day I picked up a can with "Organic" on it and read the word process at least twice.
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-05-09 13:29:55
Organic is an arbitrary standard. Companies will push standards in any way they can.
By Artemicion 2012-05-09 13:29:55
Supermarkets are a business too; they're going to be looking for vendors that offer their goods for less than those that offer their goods at elevated prices, but are wholesome in exchange.
I bet you a good chunk of of the food in America, regardless of which chain of distribution it came from can be traced back to the big wigs that practice the very things I previously mentioned. If not as a direct product, then using ingredients from those very sources. What good is store baked bread if it used eggs from chickens that are biologically altered and subsequently bring health complications from their repeated consumption?
You'd have to do a lot of back tracking to make sure what you're eating really was fresh and or healthy, because the food industry is so heavily monopolized by corporate provisioners.
The point is, the cheapest of foods, and thus the only thing many can only afford to eat are unhealthy; regardless of whether it comes through a drive-thru or a supermarket. The problem is not the choice of consumer trends and locations of business, but rather the source of where this unhealthy garbage is coming from, and why it is so cheap to begin with. Also, healthier alternatives aren't really so healthy, as noted before: standards are constantly redefined and pushed into the market. Organic really doesn't mean ***these days, and a salad from McDonalds isn't going to be much better than a cheeseburger.
By Chakstealandbot 2012-05-09 13:31:36
pulling out of a depression the only direction you can go is up.
pre ww2 is where I've studied more, post I haven't looked at much economically until the mid 70's.
false, history proves that government intervention always prevents or prolongs the recovery, as in, takes away from potential growth. also why is it that you try to masquerade as an expert on all subjects, and say that "history has proven free markets failed" when you admittedly dont know what youre even talking about? pre-ww2 they were still in a depression, so apparently you dont have a clue as to what ended it. quit acting like you do, quit being so stubborn and team-oriented.
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 507
By Siren.Inuyushi 2012-05-09 13:33:50
You'd have to do a lot of back tracking to make sure what you're eating really was fresh and or healthy, because the food industry is so heavily monopolized by corporate provisioners.
This. Also, the words "consistent consumption" are the key here. Statistically speaking, what % of people are affected by processed foods? And at what consumption level were they at? I choose not to worry about things like that. I work with a girl who does, and the stress from worrying about eating whole food does more to her than eating processed food.
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-05-09 13:37:26
Thanks for breaking the page margins.
[+]
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-09 13:39:44
History doesn't prove anything economically, and it doesn't prove much else otherwise either.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-05-09 13:39:51
Clean water is readily available to the vast majority of the American public. Free food is not available in the way I assume you're talking about it, but assistance is available via food stamps, WIC, etc.
You can stop talking about it now. You're welcome.
By Jetackuu 2012-05-09 13:40:10
pulling out of a depression the only direction you can go is up.
pre ww2 is where I've studied more, post I haven't looked at much economically until the mid 70's.
false, history proves that government intervention always prevents or prolongs the recovery, as in, takes away from potential growth. also why is it that you try to masquerade as an expert on all subjects, and say that "history has proven free markets failed" when you admittedly dont know what youre even talking about? pre-ww2 they were still in a depression, so apparently you dont have a clue as to what ended it. quit acting like you do, quit being so stubborn and team-oriented.
history proves no such thing...
I didn't say that I was an expert on all things, I just said I'm not familiar with the particulars of the post ww2 economy until some time after.
/sigh the GD was ending when ww2 started.
bold: I don't even know what you're implying by that.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-05-09 13:43:32
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »/sigh.
I just straight disagree with you, whether or not they request it or it's required for another reason is a moot point, it's still healthcare.
Healthcare should be a right, as it is required to live, as is shelter and food, these things should all be rights, as the extension of the guaranteed life.
Also there's all sorts of collective rights, which over impose over individual rights. Where do you think the idea of imminent domain comes from?
In my opinion, health care shouldn't be a right for a very simple reason:
The people who eat nothing but fast food and take no responsibility upon themselves to eat healthy, but still expect to live as long as people who actually give a ***about their health, end up using more of the monetary aid than the trying-to-be-healthy people.
So reduce taxes and let people take on some accountability. The people who eat nothing but processed foods can die earlier and the people who actually make an effort to eat fresh foods live longer.
Just wanted to note that a matter of being, or rather, eating healthy is a heavy conflict for those of lower monetary class. Our food provisioners on mass level rely on heavily processed and chemically enhanced (thus unhealthy) foods to meet the massive demands of our country while maintaining optimal shelf life. Such processes also allow for optimal pricing, which many rely on simply so they have something in their stomachs at the end of the night.
We have livestock being fed things they weren't meant to eat to grow or develop while simultaneously injected with growth hormone steroids to give optimal amounts of food per unit, which then become ingested by consumers. We also have genetically altered seeds that build immunity to various pesticides and chemicals, all while maintaining a sweeping domination of patient and law so nobody else can use any other types of seeds. This market of heavily processed food downright monopolizes the industry in terms of price and mass production, so competition of healthier foods tend to get elevated prices which I am sure many would be unable to afford, even at a relatively middle class level.
So we have this perpetuating cycle of unhealthy food being ingested by a vast majority of Americans, while the options to eat healthy tend to be limited to those with the privilege of being able to afford it. Ironically, all this cheap food is only cheap in short term, while being ultimately more expensive when health complications arise over time, as opposed to those that can initially dish out the money to eat healthy and not remotely suffer as much from the bodily consequences of overly processed and preserved foods.
So don't misunderstand people not eating healthy as a "choice"; because often times it's the only option for their means. Therefore we have this sort of clash of maintaining principal within our healthcare system, while simultaneously perpetuating this rich vs poor scenario.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. People don't have any other choice but to eat Mc Donalds? Anyone who cannot put 2 and 2 together to realize that you save more money cooking your own food instead of going to a restaurant doesn't deserve my sympathy. Grocery store foods aren't toxic, you don't have to blow 400 bucks at whole foods to "eat healthy".
I never mentioned McDonalds or restaurants , but if that was what you mustered from reading my post, then I really don't need to explain myself to you, since you tend to have a habit of misinterpreting and misrepresenting other people's words.
Hmm, your post indicated that there is a large underclass that is pretty much locked into a "heavily processed food only" diet. considering the numerous outlets that distribute food, the most concentrated sources of "processed foods" as part of their selection is fast food restaurants. Even they have healthier alternatives.
If you didn't mean those, I'm not sure how people are in such destitution but instruments other than their own choices as supermarkets offer a wide variety of healthy fruits, veggies, meats, breads, and dairy products. Food islands, areas where fresh food products are not readily available, do exist and are gaining more attention thanks to the First Lady.
By Drjones 2012-05-09 13:43:36
Clean water is readily available to the vast majority of the American public. Free food is not available in the way I assume you're talking about it, but assistance is available via food stamps, WIC, etc.
You can stop talking about it now. You're welcome. Have you not been paying attention? Certain political factions want to axe all of that assistance.
Hint: it's the same faction that is opposed to universal health care.
By Chakstealandbot 2012-05-09 13:46:42
History doesn't prove anything economically, and it doesn't prove much else otherwise either. if stating facts proves nothing then why do we even have discussions at all about these kinds of things? obviously the way things have played out before are a clue as to how they'll play out again. dont tell me you dont believe in science either?
pulling out of a depression the only direction you can go is up.
pre ww2 is where I've studied more, post I haven't looked at much economically until the mid 70's.
false, history proves that government intervention always prevents or prolongs the recovery, as in, takes away from potential growth. also why is it that you try to masquerade as an expert on all subjects, and say that "history has proven free markets failed" when you admittedly dont know what youre even talking about? pre-ww2 they were still in a depression, so apparently you dont have a clue as to what ended it. quit acting like you do, quit being so stubborn and team-oriented.
history proves no such thing...
I didn't say that I was an expert on all things, I just said I'm not familiar with the particulars of the post ww2 economy until some time after.
/sigh the GD was ending when ww2 started.
bold: I don't even know what you're implying by that.
the post-WW2 economy is the whole key to the stabilization and eventual growth in the 60s. unfortunately the government intervention never stopped. but hey since we're in the same general time period, are you aware of Nixon's HMO scam? since we were talking about healthcare before, that's pretty much when this problem started, when we let corporations control the doctors. how do you feel about what he did?
By Chakstealandbot 2012-05-09 13:48:17
Clean water is readily available to the vast majority of the American public. Free food is not available in the way I assume you're talking about it, but assistance is available via food stamps, WIC, etc.
You can stop talking about it now. You're welcome.
tap water is hardly "clean water", and its definitely not drinking water. food stamps are paid for by taxes, are they not?
By Jetackuu 2012-05-09 13:48:57
it was on the road to recovery and stabilization already...
I'm aware of it (somewhat, have heard about it here and there), Nixon was a traitor in my book anyway.
By Jetackuu 2012-05-09 13:49:30
Clean water is readily available to the vast majority of the American public. Free food is not available in the way I assume you're talking about it, but assistance is available via food stamps, WIC, etc.
You can stop talking about it now. You're welcome.
tap water is hardly "clean water", and its definitely not drinking water. food stamps are paid for by taxes, are they not?
nothing wrong with drinking tap water...
[+]
By Chakstealandbot 2012-05-09 13:50:26
it was on the road to recovery and stabilization already...
I'm aware of it (somewhat, have heard about it here and there), Nixon was a traitor in my book anyway.
thats correct, but it was being hindered by government intervention, it could have been much faster and much sooner if they had quit preventing the market to correct itself. that's the danger of big government and capitalism, they tend to want to stick their *** in it way too often
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 507
By Siren.Inuyushi 2012-05-09 13:50:53
Clean water is readily available to the vast majority of the American public. Free food is not available in the way I assume you're talking about it, but assistance is available via food stamps, WIC, etc.
You can stop talking about it now. You're welcome.
tap water is hardly "clean water", and its definitely not drinking water. food stamps are paid for by taxes, are they not?
nothing wrong with drinking tap water...
Unless you're a heath-nut. But if you worry about every little chemical and bacteria out there, might as well invest in some tin-foil hats.... now who was selling them? $50/3 right?
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-05-09 13:50:54
History doesn't prove anything economically, and it doesn't prove much else otherwise either. if stating facts proves nothing then why do we even have discussions at all about these kinds of things? obviously the way things have played out before are a clue as to how they'll play out again. dont tell me you dont believe in science either?
Tell me where in History you have control groups.
[+]
By Chakstealandbot 2012-05-09 13:52:16
Clean water is readily available to the vast majority of the American public. Free food is not available in the way I assume you're talking about it, but assistance is available via food stamps, WIC, etc.
You can stop talking about it now. You're welcome.
tap water is hardly "clean water", and its definitely not drinking water. food stamps are paid for by taxes, are they not?
nothing wrong with drinking tap water... Quote: In 2005, the nonprofit Environmental Working Group (EWG) tested municipal water in 42 states and detected some 260 contaminants in public water supplies. Of those, 141 were unregulated chemicals for which public health officials have no safety standards, much less methods for removing them.
Environmentalists Fault EPA for Failing to Establish Tap Water Standards
EWG did find over 90 percent compliance by water utilities in applying and enforcing standards that exist, but faulted the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for failing to establish standards on so many of the contaminants—from industry, agriculture and urban runoff—that do end up in our water.
By Chakstealandbot 2012-05-09 13:53:51
History doesn't prove anything economically, and it doesn't prove much else otherwise either. if stating facts proves nothing then why do we even have discussions at all about these kinds of things? obviously the way things have played out before are a clue as to how they'll play out again. dont tell me you dont believe in science either?
Tell me where in History you have control groups.
its all theory, just like on paper socialism works, but in practice it failed because of reason X Y and Z. just because we've never had paradise before doesnt mean we dont know why our system *** up in a particular point in time.
By Drjones 2012-05-09 13:54:28
Clean water is readily available to the vast majority of the American public. Free food is not available in the way I assume you're talking about it, but assistance is available via food stamps, WIC, etc.
You can stop talking about it now. You're welcome.
tap water is hardly "clean water", and its definitely not drinking water. food stamps are paid for by taxes, are they not?
nothing wrong with drinking tap water...
Except for when it's flammable.
http://www.propublica.org/article/scientific-study-links-flammable-drinking-water-to-fracking
^ first link I dug up, but yeah tap water being set on fire made the rounds in the media a while back.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2012-05-09 13:55:00
You must be thirsty after moving those goalposts. Here, have some tap water.
The Republican War Against Women: An Insider's Report from Behind the Lines by Tanya Melich
Republished in paperback 1998!!!
Originally in hardback sometime before the 1996 election.
Oh, did I mention the author is a REPUBLICAN?
This war is nothing new, just newer than the class war.
|
|
