well, was reading the news article about it. Chemotherapy is what killed him, not the cancer, as in most cases.
Exactly. He would have been just fine if they'd have just left the cancer alo- wait, no.
Well most patients with cancer would likely die at a sooner date without treatment, it is unfortunate that chemo is such a toxic treatment. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't I suppose.
BTW "He died from pneumonia, a complication of the oesophageal cancer he had, at a Texas hospital."
I certainly wouldn't say he "wasn't a philosopher", but I would say his brilliance was in taking longstanding (and in some cases Milena old) assertions and eloquently (and harshly if he was so moved) rephrasing them into a contemporary context and not breaking new philosophical ground. All that is to say, he didn't conjure up or invent most of the ideals he held about the human condition but simply took already existing fundamental notions of a certain worldview and placed them seamlessly onto the current culture and the history of the church.
A bastardized analogy might be that he was the Yngwie Malmsteen of his profession. He didn't invent counterpoint, or melodies played at intervals, or the fugue, or 4 part harmony. But a whole lot of people are inspired by him who have never heard the centuries old music of Bach.
He will be missed. He was an inspiration to all atheists and a voice of reason. Sometimes he was a bit harsh but hey, that's life. Also, do not disgrace him by saying "R.I.P." He is not "resting" as many religions would say. He is dead. End of story.
You're seriously going to take offense to someone saying Rest in Peace?
To a degree, yes. It's like saying "bless you" to an atheist. I'm not so much "offended" by that, I just completely ignore it and do not offer a "thank you" in return. No atheist wants to be "blessed" and in the same fashion, it is disrespectful to infer that he is "resting." It's a technicality that most wouldn't think about since so much of our society is soaked with religious phrases, terms, etc...
and just like people say bless you when someone sneezes its just a sign of respect and well wishes. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time people don't even think of it as a religious thing... they just say it out of respect and to wish one well.
People that nitpick at little stuff like this that really has no harmful effect when said, I just don't get that. Hey you're wishing someone well? well do it the right way next time or don't do it at all! Doesn't make sense to me.
It's not that I'm angered by the cultural sign of "be well." I just despise that fact that so much of our culture is derived from what is blatantly false.
Those that are "real" Christians are offended by the phrase "god damn it!" But they're fine with "damn it!" With the former you have insulted their god.
In a similar context, "god bless you" or "bless you" (they are one in the same, as you're requesting that God bless you whether you say god or not) is insulting to someone who completely rejects the idea of belief itself. Regardless if you are inferring that you want your god to bless me for expunging bacteria and other nasties from my mouth and nose, I find it insulting. Why? 1) If you are wanting your god to bless me, then I don't want it. It's worse if you actually know me, because then you're just insulting me on purpose. If it's just a passing "bless you" from a random then it's not as bad but as a whole it's appalling due to my second reason. 2) If you really are just saying "bless you" because it's what you've been taught to do, then this is where I have the most issues. If you're in this category then you are not religious, or else you'd really want your god to bless me. So assuming you reject the idea of a god (or just don't give a damn at all, which is what most people seem to do) then you're mindless contributing to the survival of modern religion.
Not quite. The best way to spread an idea is to repeat it over and over again. "(God) bless you!" "Oh my god!" "Jesus Christ!" "In god we trust." "God bless America." "Holy crap/***/hell!" All common phrases used by mostly everyone in this country, and this is just an extremely small example of how our culture is saturated with religious influence (mostly Christian). If you stopped everyone from saying such things, would that magically make religion disappear? Of course not. It may help weaken the influence of religion in our culture though. Which, over time, might prevent stuff like this from happening:
It's along the lines of "fight the good fight" (which of course is taken from the Bible, le sigh).
tl:dr - So do I think that someone who says "bless you" to me is a jerk? No, but I'm not going to say "thank you" because I don't mean it. Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
I can tell you for sure, the fact I say bless you after someone sneezes is not what is keeping religion or whatever church you are railing against alive in the United States. It may be contributing to keeping civility alive though.
Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
Because they're much less or not at all indicative of sickness. If someone is coughing particularly hard or is obviously sick I will make an effort to portray a sense of concern, by saying "Are you alright?" or "I hope you get better soon."
I can tell you for sure, the fact I say bless you after someone sneezes is not what is keeping religion or whatever church you are railing against alive in the United States. It may be contributing to keeping civility alive though.
Saying bless you when someone sneezes no longer holds any religious meaning. Even though thats where it originated the meanings of words and phrases change and evolve with time. In this case it's gone from an attempt to protect you from the evil spirits you supposedly just ejected into a simple courtesy. A similar example would be when someone says "Oh god", 90+% of the time it has nothing to do with them praying to god but is just a statement of general disatisfaction.
He will be missed. He was an inspiration to all atheists and a voice of reason. Sometimes he was a bit harsh but hey, that's life. Also, do not disgrace him by saying "R.I.P." He is not "resting" as many religions would say. He is dead. End of story.
You're seriously going to take offense to someone saying Rest in Peace?
To a degree, yes. It's like saying "bless you" to an atheist. I'm not so much "offended" by that, I just completely ignore it and do not offer a "thank you" in return. No atheist wants to be "blessed" and in the same fashion, it is disrespectful to infer that he is "resting." It's a technicality that most wouldn't think about since so much of our society is soaked with religious phrases, terms, etc...
and just like people say bless you when someone sneezes its just a sign of respect and well wishes. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time people don't even think of it as a religious thing... they just say it out of respect and to wish one well.
People that nitpick at little stuff like this that really has no harmful effect when said, I just don't get that. Hey you're wishing someone well? well do it the right way next time or don't do it at all! Doesn't make sense to me.
It's not that I'm angered by the cultural sign of "be well." I just despise that fact that so much of our culture is derived from what is blatantly false.
Those that are "real" Christians are offended by the phrase "god damn it!" But they're fine with "damn it!" With the former you have insulted their god.
In a similar context, "god bless you" or "bless you" (they are one in the same, as you're requesting that God bless you whether you say god or not) is insulting to someone who completely rejects the idea of belief itself. Regardless if you are inferring that you want your god to bless me for expunging bacteria and other nasties from my mouth and nose, I find it insulting. Why? 1) If you are wanting your god to bless me, then I don't want it. It's worse if you actually know me, because then you're just insulting me on purpose. If it's just a passing "bless you" from a random then it's not as bad but as a whole it's appalling due to my second reason. 2) If you really are just saying "bless you" because it's what you've been taught to do, then this is where I have the most issues. If you're in this category then you are not religious, or else you'd really want your god to bless me. So assuming you reject the idea of a god (or just don't give a damn at all, which is what most people seem to do) then you're mindless contributing to the survival of modern religion.
Not quite. The best way to spread an idea is to repeat it over and over again. "(God) bless you!" "Oh my god!" "Jesus Christ!" "In god we trust." "God bless America." "Holy crap/***/hell!" All common phrases used by mostly everyone in this country, and this is just an extremely small example of how our culture is saturated with religious influence (mostly Christian). If you stopped everyone from saying such things, would that magically make religion disappear? Of course not. It may help weaken the influence of religion in our culture though. Which, over time, might prevent stuff like this from happening:
It's along the lines of "fight the good fight" (which of course is taken from the Bible, le sigh).
tl:dr - So do I think that someone who says "bless you" to me is a jerk? No, but I'm not going to say "thank you" because I don't mean it. Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
I can tell you for sure, the fact I say bless you after someone sneezes is not what is keeping religion or whatever church you are railing against alive in the United States. It may be contributing to keeping civility alive though.
Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
Because they're much less or not at all indicative of sickness. If someone is coughing particularly hard or is obviously sick I will make an effort to portray a sense of concern, by saying "Are you alright?" or "I hope you get better soon."
He will be missed. He was an inspiration to all atheists and a voice of reason. Sometimes he was a bit harsh but hey, that's life. Also, do not disgrace him by saying "R.I.P." He is not "resting" as many religions would say. He is dead. End of story.
You're seriously going to take offense to someone saying Rest in Peace?
To a degree, yes. It's like saying "bless you" to an atheist. I'm not so much "offended" by that, I just completely ignore it and do not offer a "thank you" in return. No atheist wants to be "blessed" and in the same fashion, it is disrespectful to infer that he is "resting." It's a technicality that most wouldn't think about since so much of our society is soaked with religious phrases, terms, etc...
and just like people say bless you when someone sneezes its just a sign of respect and well wishes. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time people don't even think of it as a religious thing... they just say it out of respect and to wish one well.
People that nitpick at little stuff like this that really has no harmful effect when said, I just don't get that. Hey you're wishing someone well? well do it the right way next time or don't do it at all! Doesn't make sense to me.
It's not that I'm angered by the cultural sign of "be well." I just despise that fact that so much of our culture is derived from what is blatantly false.
Those that are "real" Christians are offended by the phrase "god damn it!" But they're fine with "damn it!" With the former you have insulted their god.
In a similar context, "god bless you" or "bless you" (they are one in the same, as you're requesting that God bless you whether you say god or not) is insulting to someone who completely rejects the idea of belief itself. Regardless if you are inferring that you want your god to bless me for expunging bacteria and other nasties from my mouth and nose, I find it insulting. Why? 1) If you are wanting your god to bless me, then I don't want it. It's worse if you actually know me, because then you're just insulting me on purpose. If it's just a passing "bless you" from a random then it's not as bad but as a whole it's appalling due to my second reason. 2) If you really are just saying "bless you" because it's what you've been taught to do, then this is where I have the most issues. If you're in this category then you are not religious, or else you'd really want your god to bless me. So assuming you reject the idea of a god (or just don't give a damn at all, which is what most people seem to do) then you're mindless contributing to the survival of modern religion.
Not quite. The best way to spread an idea is to repeat it over and over again. "(God) bless you!" "Oh my god!" "Jesus Christ!" "In god we trust." "God bless America." "Holy crap/***/hell!" All common phrases used by mostly everyone in this country, and this is just an extremely small example of how our culture is saturated with religious influence (mostly Christian). If you stopped everyone from saying such things, would that magically make religion disappear? Of course not. It may help weaken the influence of religion in our culture though. Which, over time, might prevent stuff like this from happening:
It's along the lines of "fight the good fight" (which of course is taken from the Bible, le sigh).
tl:dr - So do I think that someone who says "bless you" to me is a jerk? No, but I'm not going to say "thank you" because I don't mean it. Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
I can tell you for sure, the fact I say bless you after someone sneezes is not what is keeping religion or whatever church you are railing against alive in the United States. It may be contributing to keeping civility alive though.
Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
Because they're much less or not at all indicative of sickness. If someone is coughing particularly hard or is obviously sick I will make an effort to portray a sense of concern, by saying "Are you alright?" or "I hope you get better soon."
"Shut up!"
If they're coughing or sneezing on me I'm more likely to say " *** off"
He will be missed. He was an inspiration to all atheists and a voice of reason. Sometimes he was a bit harsh but hey, that's life. Also, do not disgrace him by saying "R.I.P." He is not "resting" as many religions would say. He is dead. End of story.
You're seriously going to take offense to someone saying Rest in Peace?
To a degree, yes. It's like saying "bless you" to an atheist. I'm not so much "offended" by that, I just completely ignore it and do not offer a "thank you" in return. No atheist wants to be "blessed" and in the same fashion, it is disrespectful to infer that he is "resting." It's a technicality that most wouldn't think about since so much of our society is soaked with religious phrases, terms, etc...
and just like people say bless you when someone sneezes its just a sign of respect and well wishes. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time people don't even think of it as a religious thing... they just say it out of respect and to wish one well. People that nitpick at little stuff like this that really has no harmful effect when said, I just don't get that. Hey you're wishing someone well? well do it the right way next time or don't do it at all! Doesn't make sense to me.
It's not that I'm angered by the cultural sign of "be well." I just despise that fact that so much of our culture is derived from what is blatantly false. Those that are "real" Christians are offended by the phrase "god damn it!" But they're fine with "damn it!" With the former you have insulted their god. In a similar context, "god bless you" or "bless you" (they are one in the same, as you're requesting that God bless you whether you say god or not) is insulting to someone who completely rejects the idea of belief itself. Regardless if you are inferring that you want your god to bless me for expunging bacteria and other nasties from my mouth and nose, I find it insulting. Why? 1) If you are wanting your god to bless me, then I don't want it. It's worse if you actually know me, because then you're just insulting me on purpose. If it's just a passing "bless you" from a random then it's not as bad but as a whole it's appalling due to my second reason. 2) If you really are just saying "bless you" because it's what you've been taught to do, then this is where I have the most issues. If you're in this category then you are not religious, or else you'd really want your god to bless me. So assuming you reject the idea of a god (or just don't give a damn at all, which is what most people seem to do) then you're mindless contributing to the survival of modern religion. "What?! That's ridiculous! Damn conspiracy theorist!" Not quite. The best way to spread an idea is to repeat it over and over again. "(God) bless you!" "Oh my god!" "Jesus Christ!" "In god we trust." "God bless America." "Holy crap/***/hell!" All common phrases used by mostly everyone in this country, and this is just an extremely small example of how our culture is saturated with religious influence (mostly Christian). If you stopped everyone from saying such things, would that magically make religion disappear? Of course not. It may help weaken the influence of religion in our culture though. Which, over time, might prevent stuff like this from happening: It's along the lines of "fight the good fight" (which of course is taken from the Bible, le sigh). tl:dr - So do I think that someone who says "bless you" to me is a jerk? No, but I'm not going to say "thank you" because I don't mean it. Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
So this is what the crazy people on the other side of the spectrum look like...
your constant arrogance and condescension make it hard to process what you say. I'm not saying you're always wrong, you're just not always palatable.
I think you're being a tad monomaniacal over my first post. I simply don't see the benefit in taking the parental approach to uninformed assertion. Something as ignorant as, "as with most cases, it was the treatment that killed him, not the illness", to me, doesn't deserve a chipper counter-explanation of why their position is nonsensical. I feel that if you're confident enough in your uninformed opinions to put them out there for the world to see, you can handle a forthright, "no, you're completely wrong, and here's why".
While I aspire for altruism, my only loyalty is to reason, and when one disrespects their intellectual faculties, I greatly prefer to simply, albeit bluntly explain to them why and how they've erred.
I certainly wouldn't say he "wasn't a philosopher", but I would say his brilliance was in taking longstanding (and in some cases Milena old) assertions and eloquently (and harshly if he was so moved) rephrasing them into a contemporary context and not breaking new philosophical ground. All that is to say, he didn't conjure up or invent most of the ideals he held about the human condition but simply took already existing fundamental notions of a certain worldview and placed them seamlessly onto the current culture and the history of the church.
A bastardized analogy might be that he was the Yngwie Malmsteen of his profession. He didn't invent counterpoint, or melodies played at intervals, or the fugue, or 4 part harmony. But a whole lot of people are inspired by him who have never heard the centuries old music of Bach.
I didn't want to call him a philosopher really, I did want to try and get at that just because someone only uses words doesn't mean they don't change the world.
I'm hugging the porcelain god every hour or so at this point, so I'm not really up to snuff. Thanks for restating that in a much more accurate way :)
More related to what's being discussed, jumping on the defensive over an inappropriate blessing is in poor judgement. Part of secular humanism is knowing how to intelligently pick your battles. Throwing a bitchfit at the lady in front of you at the grocery store because she said, "God bless you" when you sneezed isn't helping anyone. Its simply one less person that's likely to ever see the irrationality in their ultimate truth.
He will be missed. He was an inspiration to all atheists and a voice of reason. Sometimes he was a bit harsh but hey, that's life. Also, do not disgrace him by saying "R.I.P." He is not "resting" as many religions would say. He is dead. End of story.
You're seriously going to take offense to someone saying Rest in Peace?
To a degree, yes. It's like saying "bless you" to an atheist. I'm not so much "offended" by that, I just completely ignore it and do not offer a "thank you" in return. No atheist wants to be "blessed" and in the same fashion, it is disrespectful to infer that he is "resting." It's a technicality that most wouldn't think about since so much of our society is soaked with religious phrases, terms, etc...
and just like people say bless you when someone sneezes its just a sign of respect and well wishes. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time people don't even think of it as a religious thing... they just say it out of respect and to wish one well.
People that nitpick at little stuff like this that really has no harmful effect when said, I just don't get that. Hey you're wishing someone well? well do it the right way next time or don't do it at all! Doesn't make sense to me.
It's not that I'm angered by the cultural sign of "be well." I just despise that fact that so much of our culture is derived from what is blatantly false.
Those that are "real" Christians are offended by the phrase "god damn it!" But they're fine with "damn it!" With the former you have insulted their god.
In a similar context, "god bless you" or "bless you" (they are one in the same, as you're requesting that God bless you whether you say god or not) is insulting to someone who completely rejects the idea of belief itself. Regardless if you are inferring that you want your god to bless me for expunging bacteria and other nasties from my mouth and nose, I find it insulting. Why? 1) If you are wanting your god to bless me, then I don't want it. It's worse if you actually know me, because then you're just insulting me on purpose. If it's just a passing "bless you" from a random then it's not as bad but as a whole it's appalling due to my second reason. 2) If you really are just saying "bless you" because it's what you've been taught to do, then this is where I have the most issues. If you're in this category then you are not religious, or else you'd really want your god to bless me. So assuming you reject the idea of a god (or just don't give a damn at all, which is what most people seem to do) then you're mindless contributing to the survival of modern religion.
Not quite. The best way to spread an idea is to repeat it over and over again. "(God) bless you!" "Oh my god!" "Jesus Christ!" "In god we trust." "God bless America." "Holy crap/***/hell!" All common phrases used by mostly everyone in this country, and this is just an extremely small example of how our culture is saturated with religious influence (mostly Christian). If you stopped everyone from saying such things, would that magically make religion disappear? Of course not. It may help weaken the influence of religion in our culture though. Which, over time, might prevent stuff like this from happening:
It's along the lines of "fight the good fight" (which of course is taken from the Bible, le sigh).
tl:dr - So do I think that someone who says "bless you" to me is a jerk? No, but I'm not going to say "thank you" because I don't mean it. Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
I can tell you for sure, the fact I say bless you after someone sneezes is not what is keeping religion or whatever church you are railing against alive in the United States. It may be contributing to keeping civility alive though.
Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
Because they're much less or not at all indicative of sickness. If someone is coughing particularly hard or is obviously sick I will make an effort to portray a sense of concern, by saying "Are you alright?" or "I hope you get better soon."
I like your last statement. If you wish to voice concern then why not just say "are you ok?" If you don't mean "may my god bless you" then why say it?
Minjo, your constant arrogance and condescension make it hard to process what you say. I'm not saying you're always wrong, you're just not always palatable.
I think you're being a tad monomaniacal over my first post. I simply don't see the benefit in taking the parental approach to uninformed assertion. Something as ignorant as, "as with most cases, it was the treatment that killed him, not the illness", to me, doesn't deserve a chipper counter-explanation of why their position is nonsensical. I feel that if you're confident enough in your uninformed opinions to put them out there for the world to see, you can handle a forthright, "no, you're completely wrong, and here's why". While I aspire for altruism, my only loyalty is to reason, and when one disrespects their intellectual faculties, I greatly prefer to simply, albeit bluntly explain to them why and how they've erred.
It wasn't just this thread. I've thought several times "he's coming off kinda unnecessarily aggressive". I can respect bluntness. I'm sure it's rare people have the ability to put words in your mouth. I just felt compelled to say something.
Minjo, your constant arrogance and condescension make it hard to process what you say. I'm not saying you're always wrong, you're just not always palatable.
I think you're being a tad monomaniacal over my first post. I simply don't see the benefit in taking the parental approach to uninformed assertion. Something as ignorant as, "as with most cases, it was the treatment that killed him, not the illness", to me, doesn't deserve a chipper counter-explanation of why their position is nonsensical. I feel that if you're confident enough in your uninformed opinions to put them out there for the world to see, you can handle a forthright, "no, you're completely wrong, and here's why". While I aspire for altruism, my only loyalty is to reason, and when one disrespects their intellectual faculties, I greatly prefer to simply, albeit bluntly explain to them why and how they've erred.
It wasn't just this thread. I've thought several times "he's coming off kinda unnecessarily aggressive". I can respect bluntness. I'm sure it's rare people have the ability to put words in your mouth. I just felt compelled to say something.
*butts out*
I try my best to scale my condescension with the level of ignorance I'm responding to.
If I recall correctly, it was once under superstition that the soul was exiting the body as one sneezed, and a passive blessing from another was there to redeem or recover your soul back into your body or something of the like.
Over time, language and verbal etiquette changed, and "bless you" or even "God bless you" have become a general courtesy for what is a common and awkward ailment. These phrases have been long since accepted as a social norm rather than prominent or legitimate divination for "x" branch of religion/church.
Also I think a lot of the way it is phrased has to do with the fact that it's something that neither the sneezer or observer can help. So to say "God bless you" is a phrase of sorts that passively says "Well, I can't help you, but I hope you get well soon."
Why does condescension have to play any part in it? That right there is why a lot of people fail to make any difference and usually just inspire outrage instead. Try not looking down upon others and instead look them in the eye.
He will be missed. He was an inspiration to all atheists and a voice of reason. Sometimes he was a bit harsh but hey, that's life. Also, do not disgrace him by saying "R.I.P." He is not "resting" as many religions would say. He is dead. End of story.
You're seriously going to take offense to someone saying Rest in Peace?
To a degree, yes. It's like saying "bless you" to an atheist. I'm not so much "offended" by that, I just completely ignore it and do not offer a "thank you" in return. No atheist wants to be "blessed" and in the same fashion, it is disrespectful to infer that he is "resting." It's a technicality that most wouldn't think about since so much of our society is soaked with religious phrases, terms, etc...
and just like people say bless you when someone sneezes its just a sign of respect and well wishes. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time people don't even think of it as a religious thing... they just say it out of respect and to wish one well.
People that nitpick at little stuff like this that really has no harmful effect when said, I just don't get that. Hey you're wishing someone well? well do it the right way next time or don't do it at all! Doesn't make sense to me.
It's not that I'm angered by the cultural sign of "be well." I just despise that fact that so much of our culture is derived from what is blatantly false.
Those that are "real" Christians are offended by the phrase "god damn it!" But they're fine with "damn it!" With the former you have insulted their god.
In a similar context, "god bless you" or "bless you" (they are one in the same, as you're requesting that God bless you whether you say god or not) is insulting to someone who completely rejects the idea of belief itself. Regardless if you are inferring that you want your god to bless me for expunging bacteria and other nasties from my mouth and nose, I find it insulting. Why? 1) If you are wanting your god to bless me, then I don't want it. It's worse if you actually know me, because then you're just insulting me on purpose. If it's just a passing "bless you" from a random then it's not as bad but as a whole it's appalling due to my second reason. 2) If you really are just saying "bless you" because it's what you've been taught to do, then this is where I have the most issues. If you're in this category then you are not religious, or else you'd really want your god to bless me. So assuming you reject the idea of a god (or just don't give a damn at all, which is what most people seem to do) then you're mindless contributing to the survival of modern religion.
Not quite. The best way to spread an idea is to repeat it over and over again. "(God) bless you!" "Oh my god!" "Jesus Christ!" "In god we trust." "God bless America." "Holy crap/***/hell!" All common phrases used by mostly everyone in this country, and this is just an extremely small example of how our culture is saturated with religious influence (mostly Christian). If you stopped everyone from saying such things, would that magically make religion disappear? Of course not. It may help weaken the influence of religion in our culture though. Which, over time, might prevent stuff like this from happening:
It's along the lines of "fight the good fight" (which of course is taken from the Bible, le sigh).
tl:dr - So do I think that someone who says "bless you" to me is a jerk? No, but I'm not going to say "thank you" because I don't mean it. Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
I can tell you for sure, the fact I say bless you after someone sneezes is not what is keeping religion or whatever church you are railing against alive in the United States. It may be contributing to keeping civility alive though.
Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
Because they're much less or not at all indicative of sickness. If someone is coughing particularly hard or is obviously sick I will make an effort to portray a sense of concern, by saying "Are you alright?" or "I hope you get better soon."
I like your last statement. If you wish to voice concern then why not just say "are you ok?" If you don't mean "may my god bless you" then why say it?
Because I'm not saying "May God Bless you". I'm not trying to force whatever beliefs you may or may not be attributing to me down your throat. The only reason I even say "bless you" for sneezing is because of convention.
Additionally, back to your previous comment, if someone belches obnoxiously or coughs on me, it is polite for THAT person to apologize or say "excuse me". Saying "thank you" when someone is polite or expresses concern over your well being is also polite. Saying or avoiding these comments doesn't make one more or less holy/religious. It does make them more or less polite.
He will be missed. He was an inspiration to all atheists and a voice of reason. Sometimes he was a bit harsh but hey, that's life. Also, do not disgrace him by saying "R.I.P." He is not "resting" as many religions would say. He is dead. End of story.
You're seriously going to take offense to someone saying Rest in Peace?
To a degree, yes. It's like saying "bless you" to an atheist. I'm not so much "offended" by that, I just completely ignore it and do not offer a "thank you" in return. No atheist wants to be "blessed" and in the same fashion, it is disrespectful to infer that he is "resting." It's a technicality that most wouldn't think about since so much of our society is soaked with religious phrases, terms, etc...
and just like people say bless you when someone sneezes its just a sign of respect and well wishes. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time people don't even think of it as a religious thing... they just say it out of respect and to wish one well. People that nitpick at little stuff like this that really has no harmful effect when said, I just don't get that. Hey you're wishing someone well? well do it the right way next time or don't do it at all! Doesn't make sense to me.
It's not that I'm angered by the cultural sign of "be well." I just despise that fact that so much of our culture is derived from what is blatantly false. Those that are "real" Christians are offended by the phrase "god damn it!" But they're fine with "damn it!" With the former you have insulted their god. In a similar context, "god bless you" or "bless you" (they are one in the same, as you're requesting that God bless you whether you say god or not) is insulting to someone who completely rejects the idea of belief itself. Regardless if you are inferring that you want your god to bless me for expunging bacteria and other nasties from my mouth and nose, I find it insulting. Why? 1) If you are wanting your god to bless me, then I don't want it. It's worse if you actually know me, because then you're just insulting me on purpose. If it's just a passing "bless you" from a random then it's not as bad but as a whole it's appalling due to my second reason. 2) If you really are just saying "bless you" because it's what you've been taught to do, then this is where I have the most issues. If you're in this category then you are not religious, or else you'd really want your god to bless me. So assuming you reject the idea of a god (or just don't give a damn at all, which is what most people seem to do) then you're mindless contributing to the survival of modern religion. "What?! That's ridiculous! Damn conspiracy theorist!" Not quite. The best way to spread an idea is to repeat it over and over again. "(God) bless you!" "Oh my god!" "Jesus Christ!" "In god we trust." "God bless America." "Holy crap/***/hell!" All common phrases used by mostly everyone in this country, and this is just an extremely small example of how our culture is saturated with religious influence (mostly Christian). If you stopped everyone from saying such things, would that magically make religion disappear? Of course not. It may help weaken the influence of religion in our culture though. Which, over time, might prevent stuff like this from happening: It's along the lines of "fight the good fight" (which of course is taken from the Bible, le sigh). tl:dr - So do I think that someone who says "bless you" to me is a jerk? No, but I'm not going to say "thank you" because I don't mean it. Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
So this is what the crazy people on the other side of the spectrum look like...
Really? I'm crazy for not thinking like you?
You're right, let's just continue to say something we don't mean. If you're concerned why not just say "are you ok?" Why does it need to be "bless you"? It's like saying "I pray for you" when you don't pray. Why?
If I recall correctly, it was once under superstition that the soul was exiting the body as one sneezed, and a passive blessing from another was there to redeem or recover your soul back into your body or something of the like. Over time, language and verbal etiquette changed, and "bless you" or even "God bless you" have become a general courtesy for what is a common and awkward ailment. These phrases have been long since accepted as a social norm rather than prominent or legitimate divination for "x" branch of religion/church. Also I think a lot of the way it is phrased has to do with the fact that it's something that neither the sneezer or observer can help. So to say "God bless you" is a phrase of sorts that passively says "Well, I can't help you, but I hope you get well soon."
I had heard something along the lines of "A persons heart stops for a split second when they sneeze"
Minjo, your constant arrogance and condescension make it hard to process what you say. I'm not saying you're always wrong, you're just not always palatable.
I think you're being a tad monomaniacal over my first post. I simply don't see the benefit in taking the parental approach to uninformed assertion. Something as ignorant as, "as with most cases, it was the treatment that killed him, not the illness", to me, doesn't deserve a chipper counter-explanation of why their position is nonsensical. I feel that if you're confident enough in your uninformed opinions to put them out there for the world to see, you can handle a forthright, "no, you're completely wrong, and here's why". While I aspire for altruism, my only loyalty is to reason, and when one disrespects their intellectual faculties, I greatly prefer to simply, albeit bluntly explain to them why and how they've erred.
It wasn't just this thread. I've thought several times "he's coming off kinda unnecessarily aggressive". I can respect bluntness. I'm sure it's rare people have the ability to put words in your mouth. I just felt compelled to say something.
*butts out*
I try my best to scale my condescension with the level of ignorance I'm responding to.
I've found people respond better to reasoned measured discourse than condescension. And much better than insult flinging. But that's just my experience.
I'm sure the consequence of a sneeze had various alterations throughout various cultures over the centuries.
The whole soul thing is just the one I happen to recall.
Also, Minjo, your articulation and bluntness is respected, but your attitude that passively lies within your choice of words is unappreciated and often counter-productive to your aim in communicating with others. Let alone discussing, debating, or otherwise correcting them.
Milhouse said it best:
"When you sneeze, it's your soul trying to escape through your nose! Saying Bless you crams it back in!"
And honestly if you're so offended by something so extraordinarily insignificant, I have no idea how you can enjoy alot of things in life. In some way or another, almost everything has ties to religion, even simple things like the Simpsons.
A similar example would be when someone says "Oh god", 90+% of the time it has nothing to do with them praying to god but is just a statement of general disatisfaction.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I've heard my wife say this phrase many times, often in rapid succession, and it's never been when she's dissatisfied. On the contrary, she uses it when she's experiencing deep (no pun intended) satisfaction.
He will be missed. He was an inspiration to all atheists and a voice of reason. Sometimes he was a bit harsh but hey, that's life. Also, do not disgrace him by saying "R.I.P." He is not "resting" as many religions would say. He is dead. End of story.
You're seriously going to take offense to someone saying Rest in Peace?
To a degree, yes. It's like saying "bless you" to an atheist. I'm not so much "offended" by that, I just completely ignore it and do not offer a "thank you" in return. No atheist wants to be "blessed" and in the same fashion, it is disrespectful to infer that he is "resting." It's a technicality that most wouldn't think about since so much of our society is soaked with religious phrases, terms, etc...
and just like people say bless you when someone sneezes its just a sign of respect and well wishes. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time people don't even think of it as a religious thing... they just say it out of respect and to wish one well. People that nitpick at little stuff like this that really has no harmful effect when said, I just don't get that. Hey you're wishing someone well? well do it the right way next time or don't do it at all! Doesn't make sense to me.
It's not that I'm angered by the cultural sign of "be well." I just despise that fact that so much of our culture is derived from what is blatantly false. Those that are "real" Christians are offended by the phrase "god damn it!" But they're fine with "damn it!" With the former you have insulted their god. In a similar context, "god bless you" or "bless you" (they are one in the same, as you're requesting that God bless you whether you say god or not) is insulting to someone who completely rejects the idea of belief itself. Regardless if you are inferring that you want your god to bless me for expunging bacteria and other nasties from my mouth and nose, I find it insulting. Why? 1) If you are wanting your god to bless me, then I don't want it. It's worse if you actually know me, because then you're just insulting me on purpose. If it's just a passing "bless you" from a random then it's not as bad but as a whole it's appalling due to my second reason. 2) If you really are just saying "bless you" because it's what you've been taught to do, then this is where I have the most issues. If you're in this category then you are not religious, or else you'd really want your god to bless me. So assuming you reject the idea of a god (or just don't give a damn at all, which is what most people seem to do) then you're mindless contributing to the survival of modern religion. "What?! That's ridiculous! Damn conspiracy theorist!" Not quite. The best way to spread an idea is to repeat it over and over again. "(God) bless you!" "Oh my god!" "Jesus Christ!" "In god we trust." "God bless America." "Holy crap/***/hell!" All common phrases used by mostly everyone in this country, and this is just an extremely small example of how our culture is saturated with religious influence (mostly Christian). If you stopped everyone from saying such things, would that magically make religion disappear? Of course not. It may help weaken the influence of religion in our culture though. Which, over time, might prevent stuff like this from happening: It's along the lines of "fight the good fight" (which of course is taken from the Bible, le sigh). tl:dr - So do I think that someone who says "bless you" to me is a jerk? No, but I'm not going to say "thank you" because I don't mean it. Plus, to be honest, why do we need to say anything when someone sneezes? We don't say anything when someone coughs, burps, farts, blows their nose, or hiccups.
So this is what the crazy people on the other side of the spectrum look like...
Really? I'm crazy for not thinking like you?
You're right, let's just continue to say something we don't mean. If you're concerned why not just say "are you ok?" Why does it need to be "bless you"? It's like saying "I pray for you" when you don't pray. Why?
I think it's the fact that you take it to an extreme and actually take offense to it that's the slightly bizarre part.
