No one has ever successfully managed to take a non-RMT MMO and make it into a company-sanctioned RMT/microtransaction MMO on the fly. Your game needs to be balanced and designed to support it from the beginning. SonyOnline sort of did it after the fact with secure account trading, but not much else.
FFXI will never become a game where SE provides a way to buy gil. The required balance redesign alone is more than they have the staff left to do.
However, rest assured that the entire MMO industry in every country is rapidly moving towards a microtransaction model where almost everything in game can be acquired either through time investment or a credit card. Years of exhaustive surveys and metrics have shown that the players who have "moral" issues with RMT in their games tend to also be your most hardcore time-investment players, and as I said in my previous post, these are usually your worst customers.
The debate within the industry is mostly over, and you are going to see most new online games and content moving in this direction very shortly.
And there's actually nothing wrong with that.
Is FFXI Dying?
Is FFXI Dying?
thread over Jaerik has SPOKEN!!! lol :P
Jaerik said:
No one has ever successfully managed to take a non-RMT MMO and make it into a company-sanctioned RMT/microtransaction MMO on the fly. Your game needs to be balanced and designed to support it from the beginning. SonyOnline sort of did it after the fact with secure account trading, but not much else.
FFXI will never become a game where SE provides a way to buy gil. The required balance redesign alone is more than they have the staff left to do.
However, rest assured that the entire MMO industry in every country is rapidly moving towards a microtransaction model where almost everything in game can be acquired either through time investment or a credit card. Years of exhaustive surveys and metrics have shown that the players who have "moral" issues with RMT in their games tend to also be your most hardcore time-investment players, and as I said in my previous post, these are usually your worst customers.
The debate within the industry is mostly over, and you are going to see most new online games and content moving in this direction very shortly.
And there's actually nothing wrong with that.
FFXI will never become a game where SE provides a way to buy gil. The required balance redesign alone is more than they have the staff left to do.
However, rest assured that the entire MMO industry in every country is rapidly moving towards a microtransaction model where almost everything in game can be acquired either through time investment or a credit card. Years of exhaustive surveys and metrics have shown that the players who have "moral" issues with RMT in their games tend to also be your most hardcore time-investment players, and as I said in my previous post, these are usually your worst customers.
The debate within the industry is mostly over, and you are going to see most new online games and content moving in this direction very shortly.
And there's actually nothing wrong with that.
I think there is something wrong with that. Unfortunately, that it comes to that being an opinion at this point. Just seems unfair to me.
Rowland said:
Go help other people, redo missions with new friends, help make someone else's experience of the game as good as yours has been.
This ^^
It's partially why I still play. I want my lower level friends to have a good time as I have and go through it without as much headaches as I have.
And I agree with Jaerik, we're already too deep in the hole to really get away with such a thing but I think it's a good idea to at least have options so that those who still enjoy and wish to play the game won't have to invest something they can't afford (time) and instead can use something they can (money) to get what they want out of the game on a balanced scale.
I doubt it would affect those who feel the opposite of this as they can continue to play as they normally would without paying any more than their monthly fee to play. If one is unable to afford either well then they should have considered if an MMO was right for them to begin with lol.
It's an "after the fact" problem.
People have problems with it because they've already invested years of their lives into getting their levels and items. Providing a way to simply buy that accomplishment after the fact is, indeed, quite unfair. At this point, it would indeed "cheapen" the game, because frankly players' sense of investment in their accomplishments is one of the only things still keeping people playing. That's why SE will never do it, and why no MMO to date has ever been able to pull it off retroactively.
However, MMO's designed from the get-go with dual acquisition channels -- for acquisition of items and levels both through time investment or credit card -- actually tend to be much healthier MMO's. Campers aren't as bad, spawns aren't as horrifically painful, guild/LS competition is less hostile and friendlier, people whine about "teh n00bs" less, casual players feel more empowered, etc.
All types of players end up happier and the MMO company makes more money. This results in less GM time dealing with pissy entitled players who think their items, levels, and perpetual drama have intrinsic value, making the overall customer service experience better. And the added money means a bigger dev team that can deliver better expansion content more often. Bigger worlds with more people playing feel more alive, which makes more people sign up, which... etc etc. It's a positive feedback loop.
It's really pretty much a no-brainer to see why the industry is headed in this direction for future games.
People have problems with it because they've already invested years of their lives into getting their levels and items. Providing a way to simply buy that accomplishment after the fact is, indeed, quite unfair. At this point, it would indeed "cheapen" the game, because frankly players' sense of investment in their accomplishments is one of the only things still keeping people playing. That's why SE will never do it, and why no MMO to date has ever been able to pull it off retroactively.
However, MMO's designed from the get-go with dual acquisition channels -- for acquisition of items and levels both through time investment or credit card -- actually tend to be much healthier MMO's. Campers aren't as bad, spawns aren't as horrifically painful, guild/LS competition is less hostile and friendlier, people whine about "teh n00bs" less, casual players feel more empowered, etc.
All types of players end up happier and the MMO company makes more money. This results in less GM time dealing with pissy entitled players who think their items, levels, and perpetual drama have intrinsic value, making the overall customer service experience better. And the added money means a bigger dev team that can deliver better expansion content more often. Bigger worlds with more people playing feel more alive, which makes more people sign up, which... etc etc. It's a positive feedback loop.
It's really pretty much a no-brainer to see why the industry is headed in this direction for future games.
Personally, I think if S-E got into the business of selling gil and/or items it would cheapen the game in a big way. I'm all for keeping things accessible to new players, which is why I was happy when the first mass bannings took place that removed all the gil from the in game economy and deflated prices. It was ridiculous trying to get ahead in those days, and having to farm for days to fund your gearz, especially given the fact that not having said gearz led to /point and /laugh BS when trying to find a group.
I don't want to see some spoiled brat that's got his parent's credit card to be able to purchase a ton of gil or ultra rare items in a ToS friendly way and accomplish what it takes regular people years to accomplish...and if S-E ever did get to that point, honestly, I'd prolly quit the game. I'm a broke *** IRL...and I'm not interested in playing a game where real world advantages give people advantages like that in game.
I don't want to see some spoiled brat that's got his parent's credit card to be able to purchase a ton of gil or ultra rare items in a ToS friendly way and accomplish what it takes regular people years to accomplish...and if S-E ever did get to that point, honestly, I'd prolly quit the game. I'm a broke *** IRL...and I'm not interested in playing a game where real world advantages give people advantages like that in game.
There is only one thing that can fix this game... Remove the /check feature.
Jaerik beat me to it xD
Couldn't have said it better myself~
On a side note: I agree with ya #2, but keeping the distribution to a limit that's fair to everyone is the key and therefore most difficult thing to get right. You don't want someone with a high credit card limit getting a greater advantage over players who can spend nothing more than their monthly fee and time invested, but rather a small option for casual players to at least have the choice to get ahead to a reasonable level without needing to invest time they don't have to get what they want out of the game.
Couldn't have said it better myself~
On a side note: I agree with ya #2, but keeping the distribution to a limit that's fair to everyone is the key and therefore most difficult thing to get right. You don't want someone with a high credit card limit getting a greater advantage over players who can spend nothing more than their monthly fee and time invested, but rather a small option for casual players to at least have the choice to get ahead to a reasonable level without needing to invest time they don't have to get what they want out of the game.
Bartimaeus said:
This type of idea just keeps reminding me of what Nexon does.
It worked, in the sense that every 12-15 year old begs their parents for use of the credit card.
You can't really hold it against a game maker to sell their own money/items, while trying to get rid of RMT. Calling them hypocrites is like saying no movie production company should put out movies unless pirates are legally able to sell you the same thing for 5$ on the street.
SE has the full right to sell their gil and items if they want, and can, because it's theirs. They made it, and someone will buy it.
It worked, in the sense that every 12-15 year old begs their parents for use of the credit card.
You can't really hold it against a game maker to sell their own money/items, while trying to get rid of RMT. Calling them hypocrites is like saying no movie production company should put out movies unless pirates are legally able to sell you the same thing for 5$ on the street.
SE has the full right to sell their gil and items if they want, and can, because it's theirs. They made it, and someone will buy it.
I don't like it. I am not hardcore player (I was back in the day, now I am casual player, I do a lot of nyzul and 0 HNM. But I like that there is stuff that's hard to get.
I wouldn't like to see D. Rings all over the place. If that would happen I would stop playing.
Maybe the economic consecuences would be healthier like was said earlier. But I do preffer the current system.
The heavy reason why I don't like it, it's because you can set a value to your time. No can say how much 1 min of your time is worth. by selling items you are setting an arbitrary price to one's time.
I have little time atm and I don't have a Hauteclaire and or full ares. But I live with it. I appreciate more the stuff I do irl that the potential stuff I could have in game. BUT that doesn't take away the fact that I like to have the possibility or that I see ppl that has the time to do it.
Ishkur said:
I don't like it. I am not hardcore player (I was back in the day, now I am casual player, I do a lot of nyzul and 0 HNM. But I like that there is stuff that's hard to get.
I wouldn't like to see D. Rings all over the place. If that would happen I would stop playing.
Maybe the economic consecuences would be healthier like was said earlier. But I do preffer the current system.
The heavy reason why I don't like it, it's because you can set a value to your time. No can say how much 1 min of your time is worth. by selling items you are setting an arbitrary price to one's time.
I have little time atm and I don't have a Hauteclaire and or full ares. But I live with it. I appreciate more the stuff I do irl that the potential stuff I could have in game. BUT that doesn't take away the fact that I like to have the possibility or that I see ppl that has the time to do it.
I wouldn't like to see D. Rings all over the place. If that would happen I would stop playing.
Maybe the economic consecuences would be healthier like was said earlier. But I do preffer the current system.
The heavy reason why I don't like it, it's because you can set a value to your time. No can say how much 1 min of your time is worth. by selling items you are setting an arbitrary price to one's time.
I have little time atm and I don't have a Hauteclaire and or full ares. But I live with it. I appreciate more the stuff I do irl that the potential stuff I could have in game. BUT that doesn't take away the fact that I like to have the possibility or that I see ppl that has the time to do it.
That's understandable, unfortunately our time already is stamped with a price tag: 1 month = $12.95 + $1 per mule.
It's already too late for SE to pull this off as it would cheapen the game and make light of everyone who spent so much time invested in what they've accomplished only to have it be put on sale for those who have the money to get it. Finding the balance and moderation is the hardest part, but again this could only apply to the game if it's system allowed it from the start. We're in too deep to get away with it unfortunately.
this game is still terrible for "new" players.
Fix that
Fix that
Gaea said:
It's been a while since we had an "Is FFXI Dying?" troll thread. Anyways, me and troll thread are off to Page 10. Happy FFXIing.
If this keeps ups she is going to get what she wants!
I play drunk half the time so I enjoy myself. Nothing like swinging a scythe at two mobs instead of one.
The only thing more troll about this thread is the will to keep it alive.
I don't mind so much now, we got some pretty good and productive discussions, debates and ideas out of it. You win this time Gaea~
The game business model is changing to smaller, digitally distributed releases like the mini-expansions. For example, Valve is all over it. First, the Steam Client is basically taking over game distribution. I remember when it first came out and it just had Valve games on it. Now, there are very few games that aren't released there. They even have SE's The Last Remnant. Also, The Half Life 2 expansions are episodic similar to the FFXI mini expansions in that they are short but are delivered relatively rapidly.
This wiki article and the references at the bottom speak quite a bit for episodic gaming in general and towards the end of the article, there is also a section about MMO's in general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episodic_games
This wiki article and the references at the bottom speak quite a bit for episodic gaming in general and towards the end of the article, there is also a section about MMO's in general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episodic_games
Gaea said:
The only thing more troll about this thread is the will to keep it alive.
you said you'd come back at page 10!
/slap
Ktjrn said:
Fullen said:
I was lvl 74 Bard for almost a week, seeking for hours and got nothing.
My bard mule used to get blind invites every couple hours so, WTF?!
My bard mule used to get blind invites every couple hours so, WTF?!
Bard LFP sucks just as much as WHM lfp'ing.
I hate waiting so i just log.. no time to wait
coz WHM's are awesome in merit parties....
Ludoggy said:
Gaea said:
The only thing more troll about this thread is the will to keep it alive.
you said you'd come back at page 10!
/slap
I meant this thread on page 10 of "threads". Not 10 pages just for this thread! That's insane! FFXI WILL NEVER DIE! Even if me and Pakurara (NPC Fellow) and Calcobrena (Automaton) has to solo Fafnirs!
Well the new way of gaming is better for the casual gamer...but the hardcore gamer is pretty much getting shafted.
-Shorter games
-buying in-game Items?
-etc etc
I understand why Devs are going that way. Take 2~3 months make a simple game (lower cost) sell for 50$ (millions buy) massive profit. /toss in a few dlc (10$ each) way more profit.
Sadly I don't like how its going since I hate playing a gamer and finishing it within 30~2hr after buying it...
-Shorter games
-buying in-game Items?
-etc etc
I understand why Devs are going that way. Take 2~3 months make a simple game (lower cost) sell for 50$ (millions buy) massive profit. /toss in a few dlc (10$ each) way more profit.
Sadly I don't like how its going since I hate playing a gamer and finishing it within 30~2hr after buying it...
In my perspective it seems like they're not actually making FFXI into a game for casual players, they're making it easier for harcore gamers to be more hardcore.. lol
I just wish they didnt do stupid ***.
like what they did to simurgh, low drop rate, 21-24hrs nm, non r/ex, was fine.
But now you ahve to do some whack bcnm, and the 21-24hrs is still a low droprate, but its r/ex.
it shoudl be a higher droprate, or a higher spawntime, cause its insane to ahve that many people wanting the same item and waiting that long for a lvl 20 item.
like what they did to simurgh, low drop rate, 21-24hrs nm, non r/ex, was fine.
But now you ahve to do some whack bcnm, and the 21-24hrs is still a low droprate, but its r/ex.
it shoudl be a higher droprate, or a higher spawntime, cause its insane to ahve that many people wanting the same item and waiting that long for a lvl 20 item.
play wow for a month or 2 and u will see FF is not dying, imo.
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