So level the jobs? You seriously play the entire game without a whm? Sounds like laziness to me on other players part. I only see two jobs for you at 90 WHM and BRD, your telling me your shell would rather you come BRD? (another useless job inside abyssea).
Edit: MNK and NIN are not the only jobs that can duo the entire game with a WHM.
I do RDM and THF mainly because I can do SOME of the yellow procs on Red Mage, and still be able to cure the THF.
Yeah, BLM/WHM could work too, but if we get in a bad situation then I probably won't be able to save the THF.
why not? BLM/WHM has the same cure spells as rdm/whm. My friend and I duo'd all of his +1 (and a lot of +2) with him thf and myself BLM/WHM, we had 5 spells covered, unless it was lightsday. I can outdamage a rdm, cure/haste the thf the same as rdm, and I can paralyze/slow and STUN. A good thf shouldn't get hit enough for the slighty less curepot (and atma of the allure pretty much nullifies that) a blm has to make a difference.
People who say whm debufs are enough haven't seen sabotuer Para 2 shut something down completely lol.
Sure it's great, but you don't need that on anything ever.
If you want to duo something and proc grellows, go BLM/WHM. Has access to cure IV and Haste (same ***RDM has access to), -na's, and it can still enfeeble because guess what! BLM has enfeebling skill *gasp*, and MND gear. Also with all the refresh atma/gear, it can keep up curing while still doing grellow nukes. I know, totally mind-boggling. THEY ALSO HAVE STUNN ZOMG!
Yes, and when you get hate after you've ousted your Enmity Douse already then I'd love to see how that fairs.
BLM's will, if anything, run out of MP if they're having to spam cures AND try to do their proc spells. Yes, refresh atmas and gear will help with the MP situation, but it only goes to a certain extent.
BLM's have always and WILL always run into issues with enmity, and adding in the spam of Cure IV (the most enmity generating cure), will most definitely be less beneficial to the group.
Shiva.Viciousss said:
Ragnarok.Judaine said:
I do RDM and THF mainly because I can do SOME of the yellow procs on Red Mage, and still be able to cure the THF.
Yeah, BLM/WHM could work too, but if we get in a bad situation then I probably won't be able to save the THF.
why not? BLM/WHM has the same cure spells as rdm/whm. My friend and I duo'd all of his +1 (and a lot of +2) with him thf and myself BLM/WHM, we had 5 spells covered, unless it was lightsday. I can outdamage a rdm, cure/haste the thf the same as rdm, and I can paralyze/slow and STUN. A good thf shouldn't get hit enough for the slighty less curepot (and atma of the allure pretty much nullifies that) a blm has to make a difference.
Yes, you can paralyze and slow. Red Mage has this thing called merit spells that has Slow II and Paralyze II.
You're all obviously not getting the point. Red Mage has it's own tweaks that differentiate it from Black Mage and White Mage. Red Mages will almost ALWAYS cast faster, maintain MP, have the best enfeebs, and be the most versatile job.
It won't happen, and let's say it did, WHM still has cure-skin and a variety of other advantages for HNM-type mobs. If the game starts having more Salvage-like content, I could see RDM having a niche in those areas though.
Yes, and when you get hate after you've ousted your Enmity Douse already then I'd love to see how that fairs.
BLM's will, if anything, run out of MP if they're having to spam cures AND try to do their proc spells. Yes, refresh atmas and gear will help with the MP situation, but it only goes to a certain extent.
BLM's have always and WILL always run into issues with enmity, and adding in the spam of Cure IV (the most enmity generating cure), will most definitely be less beneficial to the group.
every 60 seconds run in for collaborater. Done. Out of Mp? Rest.
Yes, and when you get hate after you've ousted your Enmity Douse already then I'd love to see how that fairs.
Enmity gear? >_>;
Quote:
BLM's will, if anything, run out of MP if they're having to spam cures AND try to do their proc spells. Yes, refresh atmas and gear will help with the MP situation, but it only goes to a certain extent.
No they won't, lol. You can get 20MP/tic refresh with atma, you can get far more than that with gear. Up to +6 unless I'm missing something. So you're telling me with 20~26MP/tic refresh you're going to run out of MP for one fight? Really? Protip: you can /heal if necessary between fights.
Quote:
BLM's have always and WILL always run into issues with enmity, and adding in the spam of Cure IV (the most enmity generating cure), will most definitely be less beneficial to the group.
-50 Enmity in merits, atma and gear? You *really* think they're going to pull hate? Really, really? They also have Enmity Douse on a 10min timer, so you can use it probably once every/every other NM if you're fast. I'm not seeing the issue.
Yes, and when you get hate after you've ousted your Enmity Douse already then I'd love to see how that fairs.
BLM's will, if anything, run out of MP if they're having to spam cures AND try to do their proc spells. Yes, refresh atmas and gear will help with the MP situation, but it only goes to a certain extent.
BLM's have always and WILL always run into issues with enmity, and adding in the spam of Cure IV (the most enmity generating cure), will most definitely be less beneficial to the group.
every 60 seconds run in for collaborater. Done. Out of Mp? Rest.
You'd be surprised how fast BLM's can generate hate.
And yes, when you're resting for MP while the thief either A)Has no shadows or B)The mob did a nasty TP move, the thief is gonna have no problem at all surviving.
Also you're forgetting that Red Mage gets Pro/Shell5 while you're stuck with Pro/Shell2. When fighting mage-type mobs, the different shell tiers can be a living factor.
Leviathan.Niniann said:
Ragnarok.Judaine said:
Yes, and when you get hate after you've ousted your Enmity Douse already then I'd love to see how that fairs.
Enmity gear? >_>;
Quote:
BLM's will, if anything, run out of MP if they're having to spam cures AND try to do their proc spells. Yes, refresh atmas and gear will help with the MP situation, but it only goes to a certain extent.
No they won't, lol. You can get 20MP/tic refresh with atma, you can get far more than that with gear. Up to +6 unless I'm missing something. So you're telling me with 20~26MP/tic refresh you're going to run out of MP for one fight? Really? Protip: you can /heal if necessary between fights.
Quote:
BLM's have always and WILL always run into issues with enmity, and adding in the spam of Cure IV (the most enmity generating cure), will most definitely be less beneficial to the group.
-50 Enmity in merits, atma and gear? You *really* think they're going to pull hate? Really, really? They also have Enmity Douse on a 10min timer, so you can use it probably once every/every other NM if you're fast. I'm not seeing the issue.
1- Enmity down gear is rare on BLM's unless you happen to have FULL AF3+2 (which even then only gives -16 Enmity). And if you're using all of those refresh atmas, you won't have any room for all of those -enmity atma. Iirc, the only atma that gives refresh AND -enmity is MM.
2-See #1. Also, never said it was an issue in-between fights, so your 'protip' wasn't necessary. And yeah, if you're trying to proc on BLM and you end up having to exhaust a lot of spells trying to get the proc, you're going to use a good bit of MP.
3-See #1 also. Enmity Douse is on a 10 minute timer. That's my point, you can't rely on using Enmity Douse several times during a fight.
It won't happen, and let's say it did, WHM still has cure-skin and a variety of other advantages for HNM-type mobs. If the game starts having more Salvage-like content, I could see RDM having a niche in those areas though.
How is it that RDMs are still called on for their MP efficiency then? I just don't get how that wouldn't be greater when outside abyssea a RDM can do a solo 11MP/Tic with a Refresh2 set consisting of SerpSet/AF3+2 Body&Legs/RelicHat, then swap over to Cure Potency for Cure 5's.
You'd be surprised how fast BLM's can generate hate.
Nuke and cure in -enmity gear. You're not nuking for damage anyway.
Quote:
And yes, when you're resting for MP while the thief either A)Has no shadows or B)The mob did a nasty TP move, the thief is gonna have no problem at all surviving.
You don't *** rest in battle. You rest AFTER battle. You don't need to rest in battle. You have assloads of refresh and you have temp items if you really need to use them.
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Also you're forgetting that Red Mage gets Pro/Shell5 while you're stuck with Pro/Shell2. When fighting mage-type mobs, the different shell tiers can be a living factor.
Tell your tank to man up and buy MDT gear, you don't *NEED* Shell V, it's just nice.
blm/whm is good for yellow procs and stuns for sure. I can see that being a good support healer for low-man, but rdm is awful nice for that sort of thing too.
How is it that RDMs are still called on for their MP efficiency then? I just don't get how that wouldn't be greater when outside abyssea a RDM can do a solo 11MP/Tic with a Refresh2 set consisting of SerpSet/AF3+2 Body&Legs/RelicHat, then swap over to Cure Potency for Cure 5's.
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
They'd be called on to enfeeble the mob and refresh everyone else, not for their MP efficiency.
What Night said. And they're really only useful for probably Voidwatch(haven't specifically done it), and Salvage Arrapago for nuking QQs and keeping up a haste/phal2 cycle.
but then enfeebling is considered obsolete as well?
They're just dumbed down to a curebot with a super refresh spell at that point.
Enfeebling is icing on the cake for most things non-voidwatch. Can't speak for Voidwatch really though. And yeah, they're basically just a refresh/haste *** if they come to something, and cast enfeebles to feel special. WHM can enfeeble sufficiently.
What Night said. And they're really only useful for probably Voidwatch(haven't specifically done it), and Salvage Arrapago for nuking QQs and keeping up a haste/phal2 cycle.
wait wait wait, Phalanx 2? When did that start being better?
wait wait wait, Phalanx 2? When did that start being better?
In Arrapago Remnants, you don't have access to a subjob, so you can't accession Phalanx. Therefore having Phal2 merits are useful. It's not necessary by all means but it's more efficient if you happen to have the merits for god knows why.
What Night said. And they're really only useful for probably Voidwatch(haven't specifically done it), and Salvage Arrapago for nuking QQs and keeping up a haste/phal2 cycle.
wait wait wait, Phalanx 2? When did that start being better?
Never done Salvage?
You're naked when you enter. WHM loses all its refresh gear and more importantly AF3+2 legs. Phalanx II with decent enhancing skill is enough to negate nearly all damage taken if you dispel enemy spikes, Regen II covers the rest. WHM *can* manage it but not as easily and the upper floors are easy enough that your choice of healer is irrelevant by then.
I forgot that we're all talking about ABYSSEA here.
Usefulness factor in about 15% of the actual game, LETZFIGHT'BOUTITKAI?!
Also, WE'RE NOT AT THE 99 CAP YET. So saying that certain jobs are obsolete in Abyssea or in certain situations is ridiculous. Just like "Relics aren't up to par with Emps", they're not in their final stage, they'll have their own use, they'll have their own superior traits.
If all you can say is "this job is so much better than this job IN ABYSSEA", then you need to stfu because you obviously are ignoring what's to come, and what has been here.
but then enfeebling is considered obsolete as well?
They're just dumbed down to a curebot with a super refresh spell at that point.
Enfeebling is icing on the cake for most things non-voidwatch. Can't speak for Voidwatch really though. And yeah, they're basically just a refresh/haste *** if they come to something, and cast enfeebles to feel special. WHM can enfeeble sufficiently.
I just don't wish for RDM to stay as a curebot if SE actually does give Cure 5. I love to buff and enfeeble on RDM, don't get me wrong. I'd just like to see the job move forward instead of backwards.
You'd be surprised how fast BLM's can generate hate.
And yes, when you're resting for MP while the thief either A)Has no shadows or B)The mob did a nasty TP move, the thief is gonna have no problem at all surviving.
Also you're forgetting that Red Mage gets Pro/Shell5 while you're stuck with Pro/Shell2. When fighting mage-type mobs, the different shell tiers can be a living factor.
I am a main BLM, I know how to control my hate, and I know how to run in for collaborater. And I know when its ok to rest, cuz I have confidence that my duo partner can play his job and not die. Most tp moves don't go through shadows, and most single target spells also..dont go through shadows. Sure every now and then he might get caught with a shadow down, but very few mobs have the ability to one shot a thf in abyssea. And those mobs that do (Ansherek), well you live with it. RDM or BLM wouldn't make a difference. Very rarely should a good thf get caught with no shadows, maybe once a fight at most.
You are relying on Shell 5 to save the tank from a Tier 4 aga, I rely on stun. I would say they cancel out, but they don't. While the rdm is busy curing the tank, the BLM casts stun and continues nuking. Oh and I love fighting mage type mobs, cuz for the most part, Aspir 1 and 2 do wonders.
Ragnarok.Judaine said:
1- Enmity down gear is rare on BLM's unless you happen to have FULL AF3+2 (which even then only gives -16 Enmity). And if you're using all of those refresh atmas, you won't have any room for all of those -enmity atma. Iirc, the only atma that gives refresh AND -enmity is MM.
2-See #1. Also, never said it was an issue in-between fights, so your 'protip' wasn't necessary. And yeah, if you're trying to proc on BLM and you end up having to exhaust a lot of spells trying to get the proc, you're going to use a good bit of MP.
3-See #1 also. Enmity Douse is on a 10 minute timer. That's my point, you can't rely on using Enmity Douse several times during a fight.
I do have full AF3+2. My atma combo is allure/MM/apoc. That gives me about 1800 MP and a lot of emnity down. I don't need emnity douse except for emergencies (such as hate reset).
I forgot that we're all talking about ABYSSEA here.
Usefulness factor in about 15% of the actual game, LETZFIGHT'BOUTITKAI?!
Also, WE'RE NOT AT THE 99 CAP YET. So saying that certain jobs are obsolete in Abyssea or in certain situations is ridiculous. Just like "Relics aren't up to par with Emps", they're not in their final stage, they'll have their own use, they'll have their own superior traits.
If all you can say is "this job is so much better than this job IN ABYSSEA", then you need to stfu because you obviously are ignoring what's to come, and what has been here.
Abyssea is the majority of relevant content right now. Quit being so butthurt, if you want to discuss specific situations then specify what situations you're talking about. We've had no issue acknowledging that RDM can be of some use for Voidwatch and one zone of Salvage, but feel free to ignore that and act like only Abyssea has been discussed.
My Red Mage brings all the playas to the yard
And they're like
No don't change jobs,
Wait a sec, I'll go change jobs,
I could let you,
But I have to log
My Red Mage brings all the playas to the yard
And they're like
No don't change jobs,
Wait a sec, I'll go change jobs,
I could let you,
But I have to log
I know you want it,
Don't try to fool me,
What the White mages go crazy for.
They lose their minds,
That 6mp goes,
One tic at a time
La la-la la la,
Saboteur your mob.
Lala-lalala,
Pro Shell 'fresh haste me
La la-la la la,
Saboteur your mob.
Lala-lalala,
Pro Shell 'fresh haste me
My Red Mage brings all the playas to the yard
And they're like
No don't change jobs,
Wait a sec, I'll go change jobs,
I could let you,
But I have to log
My Red Mage brings all the playas to the yard
And they're like
No don't change jobs,
Wait a sec, I'll go change jobs,
I could let you,
But I have to log
I can see you want it,
Refresh and haste that makes ye,
Spells that can save the mages,
Yeah I'll toss it on,
Just know, I'm not having fun,
I'm about to run,
La la-la la la,
I'm tired of this job,
La la-la la la,
I think I'll log,
La la-la la la,
I'm tired of this job,
La la-la la la,
I think I'll log,
My Red Mage brings all the playas to the yard
And they're like
No don't change jobs,
Wait a sec, I'll go change jobs,
I could let you,
But I have to log
My Red Mage brings all the playas to the yard
And they're like
No don't change jobs,
Wait a sec, I'll go change jobs,
I could let you,
But I have to log
So much work no pay,
Don't wanna play this anymo',
So take caution when I say,
Red Mage is not the way to go,
It's the perfect blend,
Of light and dark spells,
Leveling red mage will send,
You into eternal hell,
Lala-lalala,
10 seconds to delete
Lala-lalala,
Now my character will be free,
Lala-lalala,
10 seconds to delete
Lala-lalala,
Now my character will be free,
My Red Mage brings all the playas to the yard
And they're like
No don't change jobs,
Wait a sec, I'll go change jobs,
I could let you,
But I have to log
My Red Mage brings all the playas to the yard
And they're like
No don't change jobs,
Wait a sec, I'll go change jobs,
I could let you,
But I have to log
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry, I was waiting to go in Abyssea for a LSE, and while standing there on Red Mage (the job that I am always on), I got bored, and wanted to vent my frustration.
