Daggers

I apologize for not researching, figured I would ask since we are on the topic of dagger and thief.. therefore crit hit damage+ would be in there somewhere.

Someone stated above that there is no cap now? Does this mean that the 50% cap is no longer? Including with atmas? Thank you in advance.

Some good points here

Tests have been showing the cap to be 100% for a long time now.
Cba to find them :p

i went 1/5 on triplus just went to zone and seen a group and offered my pop and they let me join and lot dagger I of course farmed amber lights while they killed and farmed a few more pops.

Thank you tons, appreciate the quick feedback.

STR Kila is #1 offhand dagger, period. Triplus comes into play with it's effects, but it's up in the air on which one would win just because it's not 100% proc. Ideally you would have WoE/Emp/Relic mainhand and the STR kila or triplus offand.

I don't really care enough to do the STR Kila and haven't gotten a Twilight dagger to drop, so I use Auric/Rapidus for TP spam.

inb4 lawlgarbagedaggers, I like the TP gain and don't do end-game.

With access to anything besides relic/mythic/empy/woe weapon... Which would be the best combo?

We'll say in a general DDing, accuracy capped, setting.

Str Kila/Triplus if attk/fstr uncapped.
perfect yataghan/Triplus otherwise.
Not sure where twilght/triplus would fall.

About 5 minutes after that post I got twilight to drop.

So, I'm now using twilight/auric.

Need to find some help for triplus.

I'll be sure to make some time to go out and farm the pop item.

Ok, so been playing with my DPS Calculator again.
Thought I'd post some dagger combination results for TP dmg.

Buffs: Max Cruor Buffs. RR/A&O/Apoc atmas. No food. No haste. No songs. No aftermath.

Target Mob: LV101 Bukhis. (560 Def/430 Eva/110 Vit/100Agi) No debuffs.

Using this TP build. (Minus the daggers, of course)

(560 Att/522 Acc/166 Str/240 Dex/26% Haste/13% DA/41% TA/33% DW/59% Crit)

90Mandau/90Twashtar 109.752
90Mandau/Str Kila +2 104.553
90Mandau/Oneiros 103.642
90Mandau/Triplus 103.587
90Mandau/Auric 102.312
90Mandau/Twilight 102.286
90Mandau/Rapidus 102.078
90Mandau/Clement 101.504
90Mandau/Max Yataghan 101.431
90Mandau/Daka+2 101.252
90Mandau/Dex Kila +2 100.951

90Twashtar/Mandau 109.729
90Twashtar/Str Kila +2 99.018
90Twashtar/Oneiros 97.900
90Twashtar/Triplus 97.867
90Twashtar/Twilight 96.723
90Twashtar/Auric 96.678
90Twashtar/Rapidus 96.406
90Twashtar/Max Yataghan 95.940
90Twashtar/Clement 95.930
90Twashtar/Daka +2 95.733
90Twashtar/Dex Kila +2 95.429

Str Kila +2/Str Kila +2 93.983
Str Kila +2/Triplus 92.830
Str Kila +2/Oneiros 92.810
Str Kila +2/Daka +2 92.023
Str Kila +2/Twilight 91.989
Str Kila +2/Max Yataghan 91.981
Str Kila +2/Auric 91.717
Str Kila +2/Rapidus 91.482
Str Kila +2/Clement 91.032
Str Kila +2/Dex Kila +2 90.879

Triplus/Str Kila +2 92.716
Triplus/Oneiros 90.622
Triplus/Twilight 90.368
Triplus/Auric 90.295
Triplus/Daka+2 90.036
Triplus/Max Yataghan 89.907
Triplus/Clement 89.589
Triplus/Dex Kila +2 89.440
Triplus/Rapidus 89.396

Oneiros/Str Kila +2 92.475
Oneiros/Triplus 90.433
Oneiros/Twilight 90.247
Oneiros/Max Yataghan 89.513
Oneiros/Auric 89.444
Oneiros/Dex Kila +2 89.333
Oneiros/Rapidus 89.064
Oneiros/Clement 88.800

Daka +2/Str Kila +2 92.138
Daka +2 Oneiros 90.448
Daka +2/Triplus 90.240
Daka +2/Twilight 89.974
Daka +2/Auric 89.668
Daka +2/Max Yataghan 89.423
Daka +2/Rapidus 89.062
Daka +2/Dex Kila +2 88.801

Max Yataghan/Str Kila +2 91.981
Max Yataghan/Triplus 90.027
Max Yataghan/Oneiros 89.837
Max Yataghan/Twilight 89.837
Max Yataghan/Auric 89.490
Max Yataghan/Max Yataghan 89.275
Max Yataghan/Dex Kila +2 88.770
Max Yataghan/Rapidus 88.617
Max Yataghan/Clement 88.295

Twilight/Str Kila +2 91.921
Twilight/Oneiros 90.484
Twilight/Triplus 90.413
Twilight/Max Yataghan 89.766
Twilight/Auric 89.494
Twilight/Rapidus 89.238
Twilight/Clement 88.822
Twilight/Dex Kila +2 88.711

[Increase "Triple Attack" damage] is not factored in.
Max Yataghan has +8dmg +6crit augments.

I think it's even more notable that Mandau blows everything out of the water main-handed.

Gotta get me one of those. :(

That is a very nice list!
Thanks for that ^^

So If im reading that right, Its basically saying 2x STR Kila+2's are the best Weapon combo for Damage outside of Relic/Emp?

Why does that not sit well with me... Interesting and very nice work. Probably should work on STR Kila's anyway as everything we have right now will likely be ***by level 95 when Kila+2's go up another stage probably to DMG:44~ or higher.

Not surprised Oneiros' is so high up the list, I wonder where the numbers would be if Triplus' Triple attack Dmg +3%(??) was calculated.

Either way, Its good work O-o, a lot of daggers tested.

I just happened to be sitting on almost all of the mats necessary for an OAT dagger (D38 OAT, 211 Delay). Should I bother completing it? I thought it might be worth it for outside abyssea.

I couldn't really replicate these findings on my sheet. Without any buffs, my performance is about 50% higher than any of these numbers you've shown. The only way i would come close (but still not mimicing your numbers) was by accounting only the melee dps. No ws. But why would you do that if showing our damage as a whole is the best thing about a spreadsheet?

edit: saw the "tp dmg" there. So yeah, TP dmg only shouldn't define a dagger roster. There are daggers, like the tp bonus fusetto, that affect the ws damage part in a number of ways, and that can/will change things.

I also don't agree with a limitation you imposed. Why you no food man?! Using food is better than hqing any single piece of equipment in the game. Makes no sense not to factor it. A food should be in our stomachs like a weapon should be in our hands!

I imagine the difference between fire kila and the others would decrease quite a bit (or it might even lose) by a simple use of a yellow/red curry.

Also, i gotta say that RR/AO/Apoc isn't the best dps anymore. The may update was the end of an era;;
RR/SS/Apoc, RR/SS/AO and RR/GH/SS are the big things now.

Unfortunately, all versions of Parazonium +2 have such horrid DPS and sit very low on the list.
Simular to how Daka +2 sits surprisingly low on the list, the delay just kills it.
I still hang on to my OA2-4 dagger tho, maybe someday it will hit 8 swing...

Str Kila +2/Str Kila +2 93.983
Str Kila +2/Triplus 92.830
Str Kila +2/Oneiros 92.810
Str Kila +2/Daka +2 92.023
Str Kila +2/Twilight 91.989
Str Kila +2/Max Yataghan 91.981
Str Kila +2/Auric 91.717
Str Kila +2/Rapidus 91.482
Str Kila +2/Clement 91.032
Str Kila +2/Dex Kila +2 90.879
Str Kila +2/Parazonium +2 DA 90.571
Str Kila +2/Parazonium +2 OAT 83.377
Str Kila +2/Parazonium +2 OA2-4 71.849

As stated, this was showing DPS only.
Since majority of our dmg comes from melee, seemed like a good starting point.
Meh when I get more time to kill, I crunch the numbers some more.
Probably do Bison Steak/Curry Bun, and a few atma setups.

I'm assuming that if you factored in aftermaths, twash would easily pull ahead of mandau.

It's also worth pointing out that this is against a high-defense mob, making the attk+ on str kila much more desirable.

Oh it is a good starting point. The problem comes when you compare daggers like firekila+2 and triplus. They both increase our tp phase and ws phase damage. But due its lower delay and 3% TA, triplus also has ws frequency on its favor.

With the evasiveness of certain Voidwatch mobs, Rapidus will pull ahead in some instances as well.

mmm, What about a DEX Kila? would offer more accuracy and better DPS. Rapidus has the 1% Haste but most THF's gear 26 already.

Also can you test Manto harpe? Out of curiosity...

To be honest, completely slipped my mind because they were so low on the charts anyway.

Me too

How does Angr Harpe fare? pretty high dmg with decent delay.

Does the extra to gain of twilight get figured into those calcs?

If you can otherwise gear to take advantage of rapidus' haste, say with a nusku's sash, I bet it fairs out much better.