Ukko's Fury Setup

Because 1) it may *** your xhit and 2) Sword Strap is not haste. It's a flat 3.09% increase in damage before losses in xhit or gear traded to maintain xhit.

482 Delay AND sword strap don't go well together.

Edit: beat to it

isn't haste multiplicative rather than additive when it comes to attack speed reduction? coulda swore D:

Yup.

current 6 hit

Ukon/sword//white tath
zelus/ravager's/brutal/moonshade
af3+2/af3+2/rajas/blitz
ath/goad/af3+2/af3+2

assuming your using ravager's earring, ebody w/ augments 2% da/stp for 6hit, ravager's orb.

differences in sets
14 str, 10 dex, 3% da, 3% crit rate vs. 5 acc 7 skill + sword strap.

Doing some quick math based on old parses, but might have to invest(oh noes 8k) in a claymore grip to do parses. but to clarify sword strap for calculations. is it:

original delay-3%=new delay and cap is 80% reduction to that
original delay-3%=77% delay reduction left
original delay+haste=new delay-3% of new with cap at 80% of original(last one is what I assumed you to mean in post?)

(I've never looked up the testing for sword stap, sorry i'm a newb.)

iirc there's a difference between delay reduction and haste in terms of how they stack. Maybe there was testing to show that it was 80% overall but I swear NIN swings faster with marches even though they get like 25% Delay reduction through Dual Wield anyway.

That and you're going over 6hit. Only need 14 STP on Ukon.

Edit: Forgot you were using sword strap, in which case you do need the tathlum for 6hit. Although Ravager's Earring would be better than Moonshade unless it lowers you a xhit and If you're capping haste you only get 2ticks per 6 swings anyway, hardly worth it.

The bolded. I'll write out the math on the tradeoffs sometime this evening.

Thanks for the advice guys. Looking to get a set up myself for my WAR.

kk, so inside abyssea (only parse I have available since update, atmas are rr/gh/ss) counting that would be 50 delay reduction w/ just gear/hasso/haste. 51.5 with sword
norm hit:317 crit:1029

100hits
claymore/adaman

25%da=125hits in 100time, doubled from 50% haste=250hits
78% crits, 22% not crits
195crits, 55 non crits
195*1029+55*317=200655+17435=218090

sword

22%da=122/.485=251.5 hits in original time
75% crits, 25% not crits
194.5 crits, 65 noncrits
194.5*1029+65*317=200140.5+20605=220745.5

220745.5/218090=1.012


a whole .012 ahead if I did math right. outside abyssea(einherjar) I only have like a 13% crit rate(damn elvaan base dex) with an average of 617, quick math says sword wins. (I dont know if dDex is tiered or liniar. If its Tiered the dex on adaberk may invalidate this claim).

Edit: at flion, the moonshade is required for a 6hit, altana(1 stp earring) works also, but doesn't have the 4attack from moonshade. can drop white tath and moonshade if using VV.

Using RR/SS/Apoc would be better; thats like 30ish more hits per 100, and probably why Claymore comes out on top.

Math looks a little funny here. 194.5 + 65 = 259.5 so you messed up somewhere.

251.5*.75 = 188.62
251.5*.25 = 62.78

188.62*1029+62.78*317 = 194089+19901=213990

218090/213990=1.019 so like 2% going the other way now.

Your analysis is a little funny too since you're only taking TP damage into account since sword will get TP slightly more often. Outside sword should definitely beat claymore since you don't have the gigantic crits you have inside. And dDEX is tiered but becomes linear after you break a tier.

Thanks for catching that. I also assumed that sword would have a higher ws frequency, but since my original(wrong) math had sword ahead I didn't follow through.

I also think that marches will help sword more than claymore, but dont have time to calculate as I'm doing this math while procrastinating studying from a math final(lulz, I know).

Will parse/recalculate again tonight using rr/ss/apoc, dont have the e body augments to test actual sets though. Used my luck getting crit dmg+4 on byakko's, then got da+1 subtle blow+4(or less) on every e body><.

Can you prove this is how it works?
Sorry, I have never seen any testing to prove how it works, and I would like to.

Where would Bellicus Cuisses with just Weapon Skill Damage +2% fit in for WS?

My numbers show that if you can use all of the attack, AF3+2 beat them, but only slightly. If you're popping rcb/stalwarts/berserk, +2% ws dmg wins.

No Ukon just yet but.



So this would beat out using Grim Body/Ravager's+2?
Claymore/Sword/pole are my options grip wise. Should be an easy 6 hit.

DAT CLAYMOAR GRIP

but yes that's pretty much the setup, with rr/ss/apoc

quick samples from last night where i finally got to test it out ;z

Askar looks so fugly with Ravager's lol.. Needs maor Ebody :S

Askar looks like *** with everything. Adaberk looks pretty bad with Ravager's hands/legs/feet as well. It's a no win atm.

@ Skarwind if you're using a 504 delay weapon, definitely aim for the 5 hit

So it´s 100% confirmed math this (assuming DA+1 STP+4 augments) 6-hit is the best TP set inside and outside abyssea beating this 5-hit? I´ve been talking to a lot of Ukon WARs lately and it seems like everybody is confused when it comes to 5hit VS 6hit.

Missing Almah Torque right now I'm 2 Store TP short. Could I wing it by using Raging Rush right now for a partial?

I'm loving SS/RR/AoA I'd hate to go back to VV>SS

Also a friend was arguing due to Double Attack/Triple Attack/Retaliation I'd constantly go over 100TP with a 5 hit and it wouldn't exactly be worth it. Thought's and opinions?

So im pretty torn over using beir belt +1 for ukko's or just sticking with breeze belt... any suggestions?

I have never understood this argument. Someone needs to explain it to me.

As for 5hit vs 6hit Ukon, I'll see what Motenten's spreadsheet says about it later tonight and get back to you.

Fairly sure Breeze either always beats Beir+1, or usually beats it, and occasionally is pretty much even.

The argument is... Why sacrifice so much for a 5hit, when chances are, you will DA or TA on your 5th hit, causing you to have more then enough TP.

I can't because my computer sucks, but as Dual Wield and Martial Arts work the same way it's a reasonable inference. Actual testing would require FRAPS and pegging 30 FPS, preferably using a stage 1 relic weapon. Somebody has potentially done this at some point, particularly now that Blitzer's Roll exists.

I wouldn't call it 100% confirmed, but Motenten's spreadsheets are pretty reliable. Playstyle considerations would cause variations.

Also, I did the math without using a regain earring so it's entirely possible you could make some small adjustments to the 6hit if you're using one.

DA and TA procs that cause you to exceed 100 TP devalue the impact of lowering your hits/WS. WAR has an asston of DA natively and Apoc atma adds 15% TA on top of that. With the 5hit posted above, WAR has... 25% DA 15% TA? You're going to have overflow over a third of the time even if you're in a situation where you can WS on the exact round where you get/exceed 100 TP every time.

I realize I promised Sword Strap math earlier and haven't gotten to it. I'm sorry, I will, been sick and feeling like ***the past few days.

Thx for the fast answer Night. God damn time to get DA+1 STP+4 on my Ebody cus Askar is ugly as ***.

As I confirmed months back when people were thinking of a 5hit was even possible and just probably 1-2 months ago I also made a post about it again, 6hit is a better build than 5hit(youd be surprised how many ppl wouldnt budge at the thought of that). You give up quite a bit to drop a hit. Attack/DA/str(outside or for the extra attack) still play a role outside/inside abyssea more so now with the new VW mobs.

While you are increasing ws frequency, you are also increasing JA delay from the weaponskill itself, and with higher haste it actually slows your damage to the point where a 5hit and 6hit are pumping out reasonably the same # of ws.

With the amount of DA war has in gear/traits/merits or even atmas plus Apoc atma you no longer have any means of a 5 hit or 6hit build, the build is actually 3-4 hit average round, diminishing your x-build further. Any access TP also doesnt add damage to your ws outside of the extra swings for restraint, so thats also something to account for.

All in all iirc the last time I compared both sets, the difference wasnt anything to write home about, but a 6hit build look nicer, although I think I did it with the af3+2 mask which is why it looked nicer vs the navajo crown, I havent tried the current 6hit build, so I might test that out soon again.

I currently 6hit fudo instead of 5hit aswell.