Ukko's Fury Setup

Heca head +1 augmented with DA+3% over af3+2 head for Ukko?

nope. AF3+2 has 4 DA and +3% crit rate

What mob was the enhance DA testing on?
mandies in Abyssea?

Doubt it, Byrth would probably have more foresight than to get observed values from a MNK mob.

I used monsters in East Ron. I'm fSTR capped on all of them and attack capped, so it doesn't actually matter what I fight there. I just warped in from Abyssea - La Theine and started hitting things, but the majority of the monsters I WSed to death were Sheep or Rabbits.

3.0 is not the lowest value you can get for a 2H crit, but the overwhelming majority of crits at capped Ratio are between 3 and 3.15. Because all of my Ukko's fall between 3 and 3.15 for the "Enhances DA doesn't apply" case, and only one does for the "Enhances DA does apply" case (and otherwise they're low), it's pretty safe to say that enhances DA damage doesn't work with WS. It's something like 80% of the crits that are between 3 and 3.15, so my odds of getting 5/6 low are essentially zero (6*.8*.2^5=~0.1%).

If I'm fighting weak ***, like in Neo-NI, I don't typically roll with full attack buffs. If I'm just eating food and using Berserk sometimes, the Attack on Avant is still going to be useful against 400-500 defense enemies.

6 WS's isn't enough to claim anything....


With just berserk, RCB and Hasso I have something like 1050~ attack. Which means I'm capped on anything with 475~ or less attack. So I would take the definitely going to do something for me 1% DA over the might possibly do something for me 18 attack. Since anything with less than 475~ I would be capped on, and thats 75% of your quoted defense values for mobs in that event, and I dont tend to fight anything without berserk up.


Funguars in Abyssea Kons, it's like 4 or 5 pages back if you want to look at it.


What exactly is wrong with WSing Tiny Mandragoras from behind again?

<_< Okay


***doesn't work on WS, but feel free to keep doing it until you hit the lowest part of the range. FTR, even if 40% of the range was < 3, I could still be more than 95% confident that it doesn't work on WS.

6 values is to low to prove anything unless one of them falls outside the range one of the values can achieve.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/f9aa43f649ff4a26dd9c79d38e87e4af.png
Here's what I was using, mainly because Im far to lazy to not hit my WS macro to WS.

2433 2421 2423 2358 2439 2356
Here's my first 6 values, is the answer the same looking at them compared to what you got?

3.0 2334
3.15 2451
No enhancement.

I assumed 4% crit damage on the hands and didn't bother with flooring, so the real values may be a few points lower. Still, same conclusion.

Im just going to quit trying to get a value I find acceptably outside the possible range then. My average after all the hours I've spent doing it was right at what it should be if it didn't get a 3% increase and I kinda got tired of doing it and was playing GW2 and D3 anyway, lol. But I still dont think 12 values is enough.

Also> Did you see my edited statement about 1050~ attack with just food hasso and berserk and how anything with 475~ or less defense I would be capped on?

idk, how comfortable are you with assuming DC mobs have <475 Defense?
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Hydra_Bard

Even if many of them do have <475 defense, how many would need defense like this guy for Avant +1 to be better than AF2+2? 1% DA is tiny, something like +0.5% WS damage. Not only that, but you're more likely to get the bonus against monsters that you pretty much one-shot already. You're more likely to benefit from Avant +1's Attack against things like NMs in Neo-NI.

It's more just that you know you're getting something as opposed to maybe getting something. Even on a mob with 550 Defense the attack gains would probably be undervalued enough to where AF2+2 pull even. Since up til somewhere around there you only gain pdif on none-crits, and have a 50%~ crit rate anyway.

is there a competitive option with hecatomb +1 mittens? havent been able to get phorcys but wouldnt heca get trumped if you didnt have a good augment like the crit damage +4? what would be a couple other options to consider, i havent been able to land a good augment on my mitts and was looking for other possible hands

Good point. My heca have 3% some nominal acc and 5 axe skill. How high would my crit hate have to be for them to beat phorcys?

I'd say Avant+1 would be a viable option if you're unable to get Phorcys or a good augment on Heca+1. Now, I'm not sure if Avant+1 would beat a 3% crit damage Heca+1. I'm in class at the moment and on my laptop so I don't have a spreadsheet handy or anything to check. If someone doesn't have an answer in a couple hours I'll get one.

there's a few option's im sure, just was looking for what could be comparative with hecatomb, and or avant +1, there's a good bit of rare/ex i was wondering how the relic+2 would hold up saying the str and attack

I have phorcys as well, just curious when and if heca beat them for restraint down. All this crit rate and dmg kills my brain. Especially when you throw in wsd +% and att +%.

I highly doubt Relic+2 hands are good for much of anything besides Upheaval if you don't have Phorcys.

Not sure what you mean by restraint down? Shouldn't really change your weaponskill set... but 4% Heca+1 hands beat Phorcys when you're getting any kind of crit boost (BR, Champion's, at a certain %TP that I don't know off the top of my head).

Again, I couldn't tell you what % crit damage you need to beat Phorcys because I don't have spreadsheets handy, nor do I care much to download them on this machine.

Do you not have to ws in +2 hands for the restraint bonus? I was under the impressio?n they had to be fulltimed during restraint.

You only have to TP in the AF3+2 hands to gain the restraint bonus.

AF2+2 hands arent very good, Heca+1 with 3 Crit should just about always beat them. And I wouldnt use Avant hands+1 for WS without needing the ACC either, even if my Heca+1 only had 3% Crit damage.

Phorcys only beat Heca+1 because of the combination of 11 STR, 2 DA and Attack, and only when Crit rate is below 50%~ depending on other gear. 47%~ is the average crit rate for 100 TP Ukkos with standard gear. (Moonshade, AF3+2 Mask, Claymore grip)

As your crit rate goes down, (Mekira hat +1, Duplus grip) Phorcys become better and better. As crit rate goes up, Heca+1 become better and better (Heca pants+1, more TP, Bloodrage, Warcry, dDEX, Champions drink, Rogues roll, etc). But if we assume that the average player only has 47% Crit rate, this makes Phorcys slightly better, as Heca+1 don't pull even until just above 50%, at which point the average player will have the same gains from either of those 2 hand options. Which is why it's correct to say that if you have any sort of Crit rate buff, use Heca+1, because even if it's only a small buff, like having capped haste and embrava up and constantly WSing at 120%~ TP, Heca+1 (with 4 crit damage) will at least be even with Phorcys. And the larger the crit rate buff received, the more Heca+1 have that chance to pull ahead.

Well, I wouldn't really use Avant+1 even if you do need accuracy unless you have ***Heca+1 augments... Heca+1 (I guess I have accuracy augments on mine >_>) would probably do the trick, unless your hit rate and/or crit rate are seriously floored.

Again, was just throwing out options... I had no numbers to back myself up at the time.

Hey guys, lookin for a second opinion on my legion sets/stategies:


Ravager's Mufflers +2 for restraint up, Phasmida on hand if more Acc is needed. What do people recommend as a replacement for Rancor Collar when it's not safe to use? I'm thinking something along the lines of Fortitude Torque, Nefarious Collar, or Ravager's Gorget.

Edit: The correct answer is probably Portus, but that's likely sooner to go obsolete than enter my inventory.


Hecatomb Mittens +1 (4%) for BR/Warcry/125+ TP (excluding Mul wave 2/3), and Mekira-oto +1 for aligned days. I'm honestly not sure about Ambuscade here, all I know is Rajas isn't necessary to keep 6-hit so I went for the Acc and DA.

Also, for wave 2/3 Mul mobs with their Critical Hit Evasion or whatever it's called, should I swap grip to something like Sword Strap or Pole(Duplus) Grip, and/or start using Upheaval?

Personally, I don't like to gimp my damage. If you are taking a beating you could always switch to a PDT/MDT set if you are really low on HP and are waiting on a cure. It is important to bring good mages in there as you really should be going all out and not focus on making hybrid builds. If the rancor collar bothers you that much though you can switch(ﾉ´ｰ`)ﾉ lol

I use portus in tp always, because I'm a pussy etc.

Can use Agasaya's Collar too, I think.

what for the phorcys challenged would be a few more option's as a weaponskill body, would grim +1 stand out the most?

Grimm plus 1 would work

Seen Arch-Omega pile-pitch a MNK with rancor collar on (he didn't swap to pdt fast enough.) There ARE some times when you just don't wanna risk it because some mobs have hp% moves or whatnot. Sometimes "gimping" your tp set will help you to put out more damage in the event that accidents happen.

A dead DD is way more gimp than a DD who swapped out one slot for a fight.



Unless, of course, you are perfect and never miss the timing on your macros, ever.

After 94 attempts in the last 24 hours, my best Heca Mittens +1 are 4 Acc, 3% Crit damage, 2 Dagger skill. Total of about 4.5mil spent (including Cursed -1 and opportunity cost from abjuration). >:/

F-that, ya know? Where are my gil piles when I need them?