DA/TA Or Dex On Evis?

I looked around a little, couldn't see a thread. An most threads covering evisceration have older gear that now have better options. So simple question, I have atheling mantle and epona's ring that I tp in, but I've been using evis in Nifty mantle / Thunder ring. Would it be better to keep the double/triple attack gear in for extra hits in ws? Or stick to the dex for crits?

Assuming you are in abyssea, dDEX will be capped with just cruor buffs in most cases, so stacking DEX will only really boost you're damage through direct WS mods.

In answer to you're question, use esponia's and atheling. Atheling vs nifty is a clean win - 11 higher att will often beat the dmg boost from 5dex the low attack of daggers and evis being a multi hit, 3% DA is sort of a cream on the cake for thf, and for dnc its at least a 2% boost to you're overall damage, even considering decreasing returns.

Esponia's will beat thunder, again cleanly.

my point of view on it is, Inside Abyssea:

You want the Statistical possibility of landing 8 hits during Evisc in your favor.

In Abyssea, With Apoc, You have a Base Triple Attack of 25%. Now across 5 hits you got a pretty decent chance of 2 of them Tripling for 8 hits total (8 is limit).

This doesn't Include Double attack, Which with Decent Armor (Atheling, Brutal, Twilight) you're looking @ about 10% Double Attack as well.

either way, MY GOAL with my WS set in abyssea is to put myself @ about 30% Triple Attack rate, so i have an honest chance of getting 8/8 hits, as well as keeping up my Stats/Attack for the Weaponskill itself.

my current WS Set for Evisc is as follows:




This puts me @ i think 32% Triple Attack (base, Merits, Apoc, Shown gear) as well as an upkeep to my attack/Stats for the WS itself.

This isn't the best possible Gearset, its what i got though. Relatively certain Hecatomb+1 feet would be better than Lithe.

Generally using RR/GH/Apoc for this set up.

edit:(Wrong Belt/Neck)
edit2:Fixed

You only need one triple attack to max your number of hits.

In the worst possible scenario for Epona's (fighting decreasing returns) you are using RR/Apoc/AO giving you a 38% triple proc. That's a 9.1% chance of triple not procing on WS. Equipping Epona's would make it a barely over 7.1% chance of triple not procing.

So basically we're looking at a max 2% chance to triple. Not that great, but the rule of thumb used to put Brutal's 5% double over a 2 DEX earring, so I could see a 2% triple over a 6 DEX ring.

For Atheling, it's going to come down to your buffs/food. If you're effectively attack capped roll with Nifty. But if you find your parties increasingly without attk buffs because COR and a second BRD are no longer crucial, Atheling is better assuming dDEX cap.

lets see those crits + double attack baby!

im missing jupiter's pearl and nfeet to +1 heca

Mmm, Can you explain why You only need 1 Triple Attack proc to cap out 8 hits?

I'm probably rusty in my knowledge on this, But i thought even while dual wielding, Evisc Was still primarily 5 hits, Even with the extra "offhand" hits it gets. Meaning You'd still need 3 More hits to cap @ the 8 hit limit.

And since Evisc is only 5 hits, and Triple Attack would only add two more (The Initial, +2 extras like a normal Attack) for a total of +7, You would need minimum 2 triple attack proc's?

Or am i Missing some factor i left out =.=a? I'm still in the dark on that whole aspect of Weaponskills. I just remember seeing Several different TP numbers in my Evisc Signifying a Double proc (about 14% TP) a Triple (15%), and all 8 (16% Return) where my normal is 13...

Again :| Not saying you're wrong i just wanna know where Im wrong at.


You would take 2DEX over 1% Triple Attack for WS? (On Earring, That thing vs Raider's). I'm Curious is all. Not insulting your choice Simply curious as to your reasoning!

I know Raen mathed this out in LS recently, he said Epona's wins on Evis unstacked and a 6DEX~ ring would win stacked. Atheling is pretty much a full time piece unless pdif is capped.

Nope it's not 8 hits per hand, it's 8 hits per attack round.

Thus evisceration (5) + offhand (1) + triple proc (2) = 8 and you're capped.

I know its not 8 Per hand, Its 8 Maximum, that wasn't my Question :( Nor do i ... remember hinting in any way i meant you could attack 16 times per round because theres a seperate limit per hands =.=a.

What i had meant was, I had Always thought that When Dual Wielding the Offhand hit never counted toward the 8 hit maximum meaning you'd still need 3 To land a full 8 Swings. In retrospect i can't imagine why i thought that TBH, Oh, Well. :|

Now i Know though, Sorry i was unclear in it :| and thanks for the answer

Im waiting for a jupiter's pearl :|

You can only DA/TA on the first two hits of a ws. Don't know if that was pointed out.

I'm Shocked those aren't crafted more often... I'd love one for my Solo-SA build :|

It's synergy HQ. Roughly 500k to attempt when there's little/no market for the NQ will put most crafters off when there's easier money to be made elsewhere.

its really only available if you have the gil to buy or have crafting friends.

I have crafting friends but so far no luck :(

also suzy wont drop my feet

Plus people aren't really interested in buying stuff that will clearly be outdated again soon enough.

As far which one would be better just figure out the average increase in dmg from adding one thing in one slot and then another. As long as you aren't trying to compare att to other things it comes out easy and fairly exact.

If you are getting higher rates of triple attack brutal would probably become kinda sucky since it either can't proc or is useless if you get either triple attack proc.

Also the math above is a little wrong. 38% triple attack rate doesn't give you a 9.1% rate to not triple attack. I mean does that even make sense that 38% on 2 hits becomes 91%? It's more like 61.56% chance to triple attack 57.75% without epona.

As far as attack goes well I rarely see thfs getting att buffs... so even with red curry buns more is welcome. Even with att buffs on higher def mobs you still wont cap.

Also you really should be using GH anyways so that puts epona a little higher

Stack that Conserve TP from Aesir earring and ele belt! It's the new Zanshin build!

And atmas!!! Plus use +60 store tp in atmas and dual wield Mkris and AO2-4 dagger!

DO IT!

but both can still activate on the off hand if you're dual wielding

AFAIK DA/TA can proc on any hit of a WS. The limit of two is that TA can only proc once per hand, but it does not have to be the first hit of the main hand.

Under that assumption you simply multiply the 62% chance of a non-proc against itself five times.

Pretty sure it's only 2 potential double/triple attacks. One for mainhand hit and 1 for offhand. It would be rediculous otherwise.

Doesn't seem that imbalanced to me when you consider the numbers in play pre-Abyssea when the DA/3A/WS mechanics were worked out.

Before Abyssea the most 3A you would have when WS'ing would be 10% (you could get 13% and that would be using absolutely HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE EQ that would have a net negative effect on your total). The chances of getting a triple would be around 50% total, but then the chances you actually see that benefit are reduced by your accuracy. Even at capped accuracy (which wasn't really common by any means until well into the ToaU era with three support parties) the chance that you land all of the natural strikes and the bonus two are only 66%. That reduced the chance of seeing an actual full 8-hit WS to 33%.

This was probably more than likely acceptable given that we're only talking about max D35~ weapons. Remember that Mandau was only mid 30's before they patched dagger damage for Lv. 65+ daggers; I believe Blau was in the upper 20's only previously. SA/TA were originally designed to balance the otherwise lackluster WS damage that resulted from our poor base damage.

The Wiki entry for DA says "can process on any hit of the weapon skill." For TA it says "can occur twice, once on first hit and again on off hand hit" but I never read that to mean there's a limit of two chances, just a limit of procs.

Not saying it's not true, just saying that I've never personally seen a source about it, and to me it doesn't seem overpowered at all given that 3A was limited to Thief and thus to daggers.

It's seriously unlikely that Triple Attack can proc on any hit of the WS, considering that would up the % of TA to over 100% during WS when using Apoc and AO.

15% native, 15% Apoc, 15% AO, that's 45%. 45% x 4 hits (1 dagger instead of two) would have a 180% activation rate during WS, in a perfect setting. That is way overkill, and anyone can eyeball that this is not the case.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question, but as I've understood it, DA and TA can only proc on main-hand and off-hand once.

Not sure, I think I've gotten 5 hit tp return ws with Raging Rush. I remember reading often that DA/TA can only activate on the first two hits.

Well if you use jailor weapons you can get lots :)

Your math is a bit off in a few ways.

First only 10% native. AO is also only 10% so that's only 35% without gear.

Also evisceration is 5 hits not 4 hits.

Also you can't just multiply like that since that is more of the average number of triple attack procs but only cause it's counting double proc as 2 procs which can't happen on this ws. So you need to figure out how often at least one will proc not how many will.

So your chance to proc at least 1 triple attack is more like 89% o if you really had a 45% triple attack rate more like 95%

Ok, 5 hit return solely with DA.

Idk I forget. I still doubt it's more than 2 procs on a ws

You were probably damaged after or during the WS phase.