Thf Af3 Set Bonus

So I have noticed some thiefs have gradually been getting thier 5/5 af3+2 set and when they list tp sets they look nice and everything, but I had a random thought walking back from campus today.

I often see brutal earring/twilight belt/atheling mantle being used by these thfs in thier tp set and even the use of VV atma. All this stacked together ends up with a decent double attack rate. Won't this cut into Thfs triple attack to the extent that it could lower total damage and tp gain... I was thinking a set like this:



Combined with RR, Apoc, and Alpha Omega atma could end up producing better results due to a focus on triple attack. Any thoughts?

Certainly an interesting theory, although I recently read in a thread here that there may be evidence that triple attack procs before double attack.

I'd love to dig it up for you, but I can't remember where it was, perhaps in the 'THE TP gear' thread, and I think they referenced Alla in the post.

Sorry I can't be more helpful lol.

Oh, I had heard everywhere that Double Attack procs first... if it ends up the other way around then obviously everything I said about not using double attack is mute.

I do find it odd that more thfs with set bonus dont use 2 triple attack atmas unless there is some sort of cap?

There's diminishing returns on both DA/TA. You won't see a big a return as you think, and the set bonus is just a neat perk, you'd likely lose a lot of WS frequency dropping Haste/DA just to have it proc a little more.

There seem to be a few caps on the bonuses atma can give, ie. crit damage from atma caps at 50%. However, I don't know if there is a cap on triple attack, and to be honest, if there was one it would probably be quite hard to reach, seeing as most caps seem to be around the 50% mark.

As for the whole double attack procing first, it was mentioned that it would be very surprising if the triple attack before double attack thing was true because it had been believed to be the other way around for so long.

I'll try and find it, I don't want to do revision anyway. Exams suck.

Here you go:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=10&mid=129310927451482981&page=1

Credit to Raenryong for finding it, and whoever did the research in the thread. (I haven't actually read it yet.)

THFs use RR without MS?

Don't all melee DDs use RR if they have it...

Fail.


use Gnarled Horn, RR, and Dark Depths. your Crit rate will be well over 90% in the newest aby zones and around 95%(Which I believe is cap, same as acc.) in the previous 2 sets of aby zones.

I think he meant +crit dmg which does cap at 50%

I don't understand what muscular sclerosis has to do with this.....

I wondered the same thing.



~shop smart, shop s-mart

Sorry yeah, my bad. Edited for derp.

Totally derped that up, i ment thf's use VV X.x

sorry it's early and ive been doing wamuras for 12 hours~ @14 more scales to LV 85 Twashtar~

But yes i wasnt aware that thf's use VV for any reason?

In situations you aren't tping as much?

really when are you not tping?

Fighting nms when I'm not the tank. Or back tanking while people are weakened or when we trying to proc and limit tp so can proc easier

THF should always be tanking ;)

and if you arent for whatever reason sea daughter for regain over VV since you arent hitting slow does not matter ya?

RR GH Apoc always!

unless you are cleave pulling, then MC +whatever regen atmas.

I'm still planning to do more parses to figure out if DA procs over TA or vise versa. If Da overprocs, then I'm considering switching to a goading belt+Ballerines build instead of twilight+homam feet. I would also use raider's earring over brutal if this was the case.

edit: and what's this nonsense about diminishing returns from DA or TA? assuming you are only using one of the two stats, every point of DA will theoretically add +1 swing per hundred, and +2 for each point of TA. There is only diminishing returns IF DA procs over TA, in which case DA has diminishing (and eventually negative) returns, depending on how high your TA is.

I use VV depending on what I'm doing. Sometimes I end up running around a lot and even when you're engaged regain's property is similar to haste. We used to say one point of haste was worthless and blitz ring was bad until we realized fights don't last a set duration and because of this just 1% haste gave predictable returns over time. VV's regain should also raise WS frequency over time in a similar fashion because of this. 50 str (25 atk) and 5% DA isn't a bad thing either (if the testing that TA procs before DA holds merit then it can't hurt at all).

The only atma I always keep to DD with is RR. Personally I think the scorpion queen is better than GH, and AO gives 10% TA + 50 attack which thf/nin usually needs in hero's areas. It's hard to measure 5% TA vs 50 attack if pDIF is low, but admittantly max hp down 25% is very annoying. ***'s situational; VV included. I toy with /nin and /war, sTP atmas and regen, EH and mounted champion, and sometimes I even use MaB atmas for aeolian edge. VV isn't bad for that reason, it's just another tool to increase versatility.

It's diminishing in the sense that the more you stack, the less of an impact it has. Each point has a lower percentage increase on DPS then the last. An extreme example is that if you're sitting at 99% DA, adding that last 1% is barely going to make a difference since you'll practically be getting a double attack proc every swing anyway.

I'm sure someone else can provide the math for it, I can't really be bothered to at the moment lol.

Wrong, there is diminishing returns on all forms of multi hit traits and most cummulative stats, like DMG, Crit DMG, Crit rate, etc. Haste/PDT-/MDT- have increasing returns.
+1%, +.99%, +.98%. It's +1% to proc rate, but the effect on DPS diminishes. Basically, there'd be no point going from 99%DA to 100%, cause you're probably always gonna DA anyway, so it'd only be a rough .01% increase.


Only if useful if fSTR uncapped, which probably happens on most NMs for THFs unfortunately, though even then, it'd have to be severely uncapped to warrant using it.

i get better results using RR GH AoA + red curry

i wouldnt sacrifice the crits or triple attack for the str/regain/double attack.

Hence I said hitting often... like maybe sometimes you are sometimes you aren't as much...

And tarutaru thf tank hp is too weak sometimes unfortunately

So, provided a mix and match set still reaches Haste cap, would it be better than 5/5 AF3+2?

Edit:
Something like this...

lol too weak.... taru hp.. 3k is enough for practically all mobs and as a taru yes I reach that hp and i lack 1 hp abyssite so that statement is false.....

if you require 4k plus hp then your support sucks and you need to find better mages.

Sure I suppose I could set 2 hp atmas... at which point why not just bring a tank that has enough hp and can actually set DD atmas? And yes it takes me 2 hp atmas with 5/6 of the abyssites of merit to reach 3k hp.

I can't count the number of times I've been one shotted with only 1 hp abyssite on as a taru thf tanking... sure it was mostly fighting stupid ifrit clone. But fact remains there are mobs that can output a ***ton of dmg real fast. Plenty that like to follow up tp moves with agas or vice versa

I really dont know how to respond to this statement....... im stunned.....

That's almost exactly what i use, But i'd switch the sub weapon to something else and use Tiercal necklace (its Dagger DMG/DPS vs 5DEX, and some Acc/atk, Even less depending on weapon say switching to Triplus would be Dmg/dps+3% Triple vs 5DEX and some Acc/atk) and still have the same haste value.

Plus you gain the Subtle blow.

I've been thinking real hard about 5/5 THF Empyrean+2. If i use the full +2 set, bullwhip, Tiercal/etc standard TP gear... I'd have 24% Haste and full benefit of +2 Set. So I'm losing roughly 1.4% haste from cap, but I'm gaining the added proc rate. I have still yet to come to a conclusion as to what would be best.

or even, if like Campaign Armor, 5/5 has a higher than expected proc rate based on 2/3/4 procs.

(I.E, for Iron Ram set, 4/5 pieces give +15 resistance, the final 5/5 gives +30 Resistance, doubling the set and giving 200% expected gain.)

So the full set might give say ~8/10% proc rate on the Triple Damage.

Boy do i love when i see the procs lol, Hitting for 525 dmg crits (Abysse aof course) Is beautiful increase to your DPS XD, Shame it can't proc on SA or TA :( seeing a random 3k Critical hit would be hilarious.

in Abyssea i stick with RR/GH/Apoc, Haven't found a combo i like better.

Anyway, I've lost my point during my typing so i think I'll stop here.

Whats this thread about again?

missing 1 merit abysoi
As a hume, missing 1 merit abysite, I have 2k-2.3k HP depending on the scars/heroes zone str as thf/nin. So mister taru you saying you have 3k hp on thf at all times in abyssea, without using hp atmas, is about as accurate as saying the moon is made of cheese.