THF90 Evasions

I've always been under the impression that 2 AGI = 1 Evasion = .5% decrease in enemy hitrate (floored at 20%, based on level difference and mob's accuracy). I also assumed that every point of evasion skill above 200 (just like EVERY other skill in the game) was equal to .9 evasion. I had heard once or twice from others that evasion skill was 3-5x more potent than evasion stat. No one has every provided me with a source of this seemingly ridiculous information, and I continue not to believe it. As far as I can tell, it's a silly superstition that began a long time ago with no real data to back it up.

some of its on the wiki under evasion on the main page and the talk about section. i did as you say "dumbed it downed" becasue to keep it simple for me to remember. i normally dont carry a calcualter to figure precentages. its information ive collected over the years. i cant nail down spefic pages due to its knowladge ive had for a long time but some of the math and things are i know on the talk about page for evasion. sorry i dont have weblinks to back up my statment. due to its not information i got yesterday its information ive had and used.

others have said it works so i tried it and unless its proven wrong i go with what works for me. and it does for me. hunting for it i went to diffrent forums and read all i could find on evasion over the years i didnt think to save anything sorry. just becasue i dont have the links doesn't mean its wrong. it means you and i havet read the same things. if its proven wrong . then im wrong, im just going by the information ive found. if its proven correct, glad i could help you.

For the billionth time 1 evasion skill = 1 evasion

I know, right? I remember when CoP came out it was at least a year before I saw anyone with a Tamas ring. Heroes been out less than a month and everyone in Port Jueno (the new WG) is runnin around in Twilight gearz! I hope SE has something up their sleeves besides the cap rising again. I have always been positive, sought out my own challenges. I'm proud that I have never taken a short-cut in the game and achieved everything as it was meant to be achieved. I have also been of the mind that I must find my own challenges as well sometimes. However, outside of Abby, there aren't but a couple remaining. My Eva on thf, btw, is 18 pts short of 400^^

then what would be the point in having evasion+ and evasion skill+ gear?

sounds a bit mad to name 2 things differently that do the same thing and why would SE go out of thier way to do that.

just curious

Am I being trolled? you are wondering why SE would have two different names for the same thing?

Agreed.

Just as 1 Evasion Skill = 3 Evasion seems a bit ridiculous.
So does 1 Evasion Skill = 1 Evasion.

What's the point of making them seem as two different things in the game???

I have no data to back up any of my opinions about how evasion / evasion skill / agi effect ones actual ability to evade attacks; however, here is what I use currently and I'm completely open to ideas on how to "enhance it".



This itemset supports my personal belief that Evasion Skill > Evasion > Agility. In it, I've focused most of my efforts on Evasion Skill for my Thief and now sit at around 395ish Evasion Skill.

Again, no data to support my personal idea of "Evasion Skill > Evasion > Agility" and open to arguments contradicting this as long as some data is put forth.

FYI: 1st: I know lolAuster's staff should be replaced with Kila+2s, but I've been lazy. 2nd: I haven't put much thought into THF AF +2 > Emissary Boots ... BUT for all of you neigh-sayers, can someone explain in dumb peoples terms to me why? I'm still heavily attracted by the Evasion SKILL + Parry SKILL on these boots over the ... well GOBS of Evasion and AGI on the THF AF feet :P I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to convince me, but I've yet to get the +2's myself. 3rd: I don't know, give me other gear critique's if you feel so inclined to do so.

Why does 1 combat skill = ~1 ACC.

Most magic skills add 1 MACC although the formulas for those are a bit more complex.

The reason why I say 1 Evasion = 1 Evasion skill is I ran a test maybe 6 months ago in the boyahoda tree. Had a steelshell that was EM (same mob for entire test) swing at me 1000 times in a boxers mantle another 1000 times in Ohat the both yeilded the same evade rate. Furthermore they both added 5% evade rate more than not having them on. It is in no way an all encomasing test saying that at all levels 1 skill = 1 eva but at least at the levels of the test they were equal.

Nothing wrong with having a theory but what else can it possibly do besides up your evade rate.

did you do 1000 hits with niether on? dont forget min and max evasion cap per mob to hit ratio. 80/20 i would almost guess you were above there evasion cap

Thank you, that makes sense. I'd still be skeptical of SE doing something stupid like 1 skill of anything == 1 matching stat. Maybe they did 1 Evasion Skill = .9 Evasion? I believe someone said that earlier and believe that's a common belief amongst players. Would be great if SE could just say, "look see, here's the formula, and yes TH is a lie; and yes, AV can be killed at level 75 with 6 players constantly throwing pebbles at it."

Maybe my answer is this though:

Is it wrong to quote one-self? Oo

As I said I did a test with neither on which is irrelevant anyway. And I was no where near the lower or upper cap of avasion this was at 75 cap on samurai/dancer on an EM mob. Reason for being on sam was all the PDT gear, the fast tp for self curing, and the guarantee to not have capped evasion.

basicly it's best to stick to what you know

i agree, if it works for you use it . if someone suggest something else and you want to try it and see if it works better. if it does Awsome. if it doesn't now you know for yourself. without he said she said.

There's been tests, and no substantial difference was found between the two. I mean really, if 1skill was 3 evasion or something ridiculous you'd be flooring enemy hit rate with boxer's and torque alone.

Sorry to bogart the thread but I am against making 20+ similar threads to ask the same question/advice.

I am working on a low man thf tanking evasion set. I know it's a bit of a bleh hybrid set but I am just looking for opinions on it.

Since it's my 5th string job and only for low manning I'm not looking to spend alot or use items that are difficult or costly to obtain.

20 Great Axe skill would indeed provide additional Attack as a benefit to using skill over just 20 Accuracy. However, 20 Great Axe skill wouldn't actually give you 20 Accuracy. In fact, you'd be losing a round 2 points of Accuracy.

Admittedly, 18 Accuracy and 20 Attack seems like a sound choice over 20 Accuracy (this is, in fact, why I prefer Prudence Torque over PCC for my lolmeleeWHM kit) but there is no denying that you are losing Accuracy by choosing the skill.

This is what has always led me to believe that Evasion gear vs. Evasion skill gear is similarly related. Perhaps you do get some undocumented benefit of using the Evasion skill gear, like increased Parry rate, but it seems very likely that the Evasion gear would actually yield a higher genuine Evasion rate.

The testing Maxse conducted actually supports this idea, because you would see little to no difference between the two until you had large values of each that you could test independently of each other. As an example, 100 Evasion skill would be equivalent to 90 Evasion, just as 100 Great Axe skill is equivalent to 90 Accuracy. These are significant values of each, and even at that point, 10 Evasion may not be noticeable in many circumstances.

All of this being said, I'm not a Thief, or even a Ninja for that matter, I'm just looking for some ideas on some more advanced pieces of gear to supplement my alt's kit for evasion tanking on Dancer and figured the oldest evaders in the game might have some insight. Thanks for letting me nose in on your domain.

Most likely evasion works the same as accuracy. Usually the most simple solution is best/correct when dealing with the laziness of SE's coders.

There is absolutely no way evasion skill is 3x as powerful as evasion or ninjas would have had capped evasion on every hnm in existence at the 75 cap in boxers, eva torque, melody ears, evasion ear, and emissary boots. According to this theory these alone would give the equivalent of 105 evasion under the right conditions. Obviously if this were the case people would have noticed.

In practice, 1 point of evasion skill most likely gives 1 evasion up to 200 skill and .9 evasion after (just like accuracy works). Each point of evasion will increase your actual evasion rate by .5% (just like accuracy works).

Don't.

Please.

DD gear. DD Atma. Get a WHM that doesn't suck. You can blood tank almost everything in the game duo with a WHM. Don't take 10 minutes to kill something most people can kill in 5 minutes. I swear, this is what's wrong with this game now. People obsessed with not getting hit, keeping shadows up full time against everything, that they don't realize most mobs can't do more than tickle their hp bar.

I'm sure you're also unaware that a THF in full DD gear will deal damage more quickly than a THF in evasion gear.

And yes, an evasion set still has uses. You're simply unaware that the person who originally asked the question was specifically talking about -tanking- in a hybrid evasion set though. He wasn't referring to other misc uses an evasion set has.

Arcsol the idea is that any evasion beyond the necessary to keep some amount of shadows up is actually unnecessary evasion. For a thf, this threshold is really 0 evasion on gear. We really don't need any extra eva to keep shadows up without problems on ANY nm. And for real, in this situation a naked thf can tank as fast as a thf tanking with evasion set. So, by tanking in real gear, you not only speed things up but also keep hate better.

This isn't blood tanking i know. Still, i completely agree with Ihina, specially on low tier nms (hell, you can even add all nms from visions and scars now), you might be able to not even bother with utsusemi.

Hmmm, close, but the idea really is that you shouldn't be afraid of taking damage from most things.

It seems as if most people haven't realized that the game has completely changed from what it was before. People tend to stick with what they're comfortable with, in this case, shadow tanking and setting one's self up as defensively as possible. Such a thing is no longer necessary because MP isn't an issue anymore and neither is enmity.

This simple fact draws the line between doing something and doing something efficiently. Yes, you can sit in full/partial evasion gear, hide behind your shadows and that'll get the job done. On the other hand, you can ignore evasion, ignore defensive atma, ignore shadows and get the job done much quicker at the expense of only requiring your whm to toss out a couple extra nearly hateless cure5's from their nearly limitless mp supply. It is very much a worthwhile alternative and I can only pray that more people will notice.

The advise I generally give is geared more towards the more efficient ways of doing things, even though it is met his hostility, for one reason or another, every now and then.

Now, there is a problem with the kind of advise I give and that is that it gets thrown out the window when fighting most of the strongest NMs(and anything with en-doom). The safety net I have there is that I'm pretty sure people asking for low level advise such as gear setup aren't going to be solo tanking some those NMS, ie Rani, Pantokrator, etc, so I generally don't worry about it.

I'm not so aggressive as you might think. What i consider a dps atma combo for thf (RR+A/O+AoA) i usually do not use on dangerous nms. I like the defense GH provides most times, and i think even on the hardest of the nms its eva is enough. So yeah, be it Rani/raja/pantokrator/wyrms i tank them all on dps set.

For some reason i almost never parse nm fights and i couldn't find one here to check my evasion. But i'm pretty sure something around 40-50% evade rate is what we get "naked" against harder stuff. I did 5 amaroks yesterday and my evasion was vitually capped (75%). I have an old orthrus parse as nin (didn't use yonnin) with 15% eva rate. I'm certain that my thf would had 45%+ then. Taking i use 5/5 af to dps now, 55%+ is very much possible.