Why Admit To Using Questionable Programs?

why do ppl admit to using windower and other questionable programs, via forums or pictures?

I will be logging soon, so ill reply tomorrow.

Sarcastic: I want to be the first person to step in as the minority and say I don't use Windower, therefore elevating me to an already higher moral ground and making me a better human being than all of you. Yes, even better than Bartimaeus and his incredible avatar.

Serious: It's a little foolhardy to go around flaunting your third party tools. Whilst they tend not to act on screenshots or comments posted, there's absolutely nothing from stopping them from doing so. At the minimum they could quite easily flag your account as suspiscious which would result in your account being monitored. The moment you stepped out of line they'd be expecting it.

It's kind of like that interview with an ex-SGM that was posted on JP Button a few months ago. When somebody places a GM call on somebody for third party tools, they have to monitor that character to see if they display any further signs of their alledged third party tool usage. It could apply as the same principal as reading this information online. You have to remember that GMs are humans and live lives like other humans. They're also entitled to self judgement and no matter how hard they try or no matter how many rules are set, some of the time their judgement will affect their decision.

So if a GM reads about you bragging about warp hacking through Garlaige's banishing gates, you'd best hope it's not the GM who responds to someone's call against you. I really did laugh when the ex-SGM said he saw somebody bragging about not being caught on their blog and getting banned a week later because somebody reading the blog GM'd him. Of course, after bragging, he continued to do what he thought was getting away with, thusly being caught. Thanks to this idiot's gloating the player knew he was doing it, the player told the GM he'd read his bragging, so the GM knew to expect it.

PS. I do not use Windower or any other plugins, but that's more for the record / perspective of my opinion than to start a debate over whether it's right or wrong. Please don't, the horse is long beaten.

PPS. I will try to find the link to this article, but not now. I'll have a look at work if I haven't blocked the server.

Honestly, I don't believe Windower in itself is wrong. (personal point of view) What is wrong to me is 1) Drawdistance plugin- allows u to see how far u are from a target. Rng, Cor and well anything can use this to get the maximum acc and dmg from their ranged attacks 2)Various fishing/scanning/teleing/claiming bots. People may disagree with me...and I know they do but its just my personal opinion. Iv seen Official and Unofficial windowers used. I use the official b/c im scared to death of being banned but my friend who quit about 3 months ago used the unofficial. Honestly, the unofficial runs smoother and looks better graphic wise.

I can't say I see why that's a bad thing. Benifits my party if they're doing the best damage and doesn't really hurt us in any noticeable way. I won't complain if a Ranger's doing his or her maximum Sidewinder because they're using a plugin.

I don't think Windower's much of a big deal, but I just choose not to use it. I can estimate where to stand anyway. Easy trick to remembering is Archery's "sweet spot" for ranged attacks is at the same distance a Corsair's roll reaches. I know that by heart so I just stand there.

Draw distance isn't so much an advantage. It doesn't provide Windower users with something non-Windower uses cannot do. Really good players have draw distance in their head. Another example is I know exactly how far I need to stand from a weapon in Sky to avoid magic aggroing. Comes with experience.



I think you've let the cat out of the bag. We shall see!

I also agree with Barty, it's a little out of context to compare claiming and tele bots to draw distance or recast timers. They are both third party tools but there's a massive difference in the effect they have on other people.

You're talking about the "Distance" plugin, which shows the distance between you and the target. DrawDistance reduces the level of fog, allowing you to see further towards the horizon.

A majority of Windower's plugins should have been included in FFXI in some shape or form, either from the get go or as an update. Most people I know, who use Windower, use it to circumvent FFXI's designed shortcomings (macros, BlinkMeNot, LL, etc.). I also find it hilarious that amateur programmers (read: people that create Windower/apps for fun) created a better windowed mode for FFXI than SE (and years before SE even attempted).

If only SE would hire the unofficial window creators to impliment their features for official use... One can dream right?

That would be a very foolish thing for them to do. There's nothing stopping me or anyone else from making it look like an innocent person is using 3rd PT tools.

Exactly, it's credibility = nil. They'd need conclusive evidence within the game to really take firm action. However, they can use outside resources to keep an eagle eye fixed on you until you screw up and do something fishy but that's about it.

I agree totally with Artemicion. Idk if SE is too proud or just *** or something? But between making us figure out how everything works ourselves instead of telling us how their own stats they made and everything work. The least SE could do is hire some of the people who are general interested in ffxi and want to make it better. Whether by making new and improved SE friendly windowers, or making more friendly sites like this (ffxiah.com). I've known a few people who play who program different things that would be a great asset to this game if they were aloud to. Sorry my rant is over lol

But yeah there are other nice add-ons I've heard of like experience calculator that'd be really nice to have. I personally played on my laptop for a bit with the SE windower. But went back to my 360 because it works much smoother since the SE windower came out..

That's kinda why maybe, when you have a software that has been developed for years, it can only be more efficient than something "brand new" and never updated. (SE windowed mode). Windower 3.0 : Early 2005. We're in 2009...

I suppose that's what happens when you put the same development team on a new MMO project and leave them responsible for keeping things fresh, new and updated on their currently ongoing one. Darn you SE for spreading your staff so thin!

This is usually common among MMOs editors :) Same was done for Dark Age of Camelot / Warhammer :p WAR development started, while DAoC was still going, meaning less staff for DAoC, letting it die slowly :p (thanks EA !)

SE don't really care about PC users, or they would have made us a decent windowed mode. Also SE never listen to players, SE never do half-open beta tests (like testing version update before their release with a small panel of players).

I wonder the same thing about Galaxies...my youngest brother plays that hunk of crap and there's hardly anyone on. Plus he's an entertainer, so I watch him spend hours dancing in a cantina, it makes me wanna /wrists and I'm not even playing, I dunno how, or why, he does it lol...

Yeah, srsly. Then again, he sees me leveling Dancer and he's like "SEE!!!!!! YOU DANCE TOO!!!!!!!" I'm like, "yeah, but I at least kill ***while I do it" lol

I agree with Bart in saying it's unfair to compare windower, even Distance, to a claim bot. I dont condemn the use of Windower because to be honest, none of the plugins put other players at a true disadvantage. If A uses windower, and B doesnt, Ok, so A can see when their Souleater is up exactly where B has to open the menu and double check. Is A actually taking anything away from B?

The only time a Windower user has a true advantage over a non-windower user is Bards w/ distance and pulling. Bard A can see exactly when the bird is in their range and can pull from a farther distance. But once again, it doesnt take away from anyone unless there is actually a Bard B at camp w/o windower and even then, it's a moot point because maybe the bird pops closer to Bard B than Bard A, or maybe Bard B is better geared and claims faster. Knowing 'when' you can pull doesnt exactly mean you can out pull someone who doesnt.

And let's be honest, a lot of the windower plugins would be useless if SE gave us a bone. How long did it take them to give us an autosort option? How many of us were force dc'd from a party because our antivirus started or AOL popped up or something happened to crash the non-windowed game. Even scripting wouldnt be so hot if we had more than 6 command lines per macro. I understand it's a memory/ps2 complication but that doesnt make writing RDM macros any easier when I have no less than 9 pieces of gear to swap out when casting Paralyze II, let alone the actual /ma command itself.

Anyways, Im not trying to start a pro-con debate, admit to the use of it, nor am I condemning or condoning the use of windower, just putting my 2 cents in. That being said, as someone above said, screenshots and forums have little credibility because it's so easy to photoshop something and incriminate someone else. And even if they were to keep an eye on you because they suspect you, unless you flat out say in the text box that you are using windower, it's hard to prove. So you knew exactly when your JAs were up, or you knew the max distance for a corsair roll, or you knew exactly when your haste was about to drop... they can't prove anything but that you are a very attentive player.

Why admit to using questionable programs?

Because you cant get in trouble for it and nobody cares.

Didn't someone already admit or is it heresay or Rumour idk.. that ffxi was gonan soon stop updating ffxi, after the small add on packs? If so do you really think, that SE will continue to monitor ppl cheating or hacking if they concentrate on a new game, believing if SE does.. make a new game..<shrugs> would ppl still use cheats then?? (refering to ppl cheating in Diablo LOD and Starcraft...)

Guess we'll just have to sit tight.. and see!

Try reading the whole post before you make a smart *** quote. I quite clearly stated there's a judgement factor into a GM reading about a specific player warp hacking... If they then got a call aboutt that player, they'll remember reading that player's blog and have the thoughts that they were bragging about hacking on their blog.

Please read through posts fully before you make smart *** quotes about one sentence.

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter whether people think it'd be stupid for them to act on screenshots: There's nothing to stop them from doing so. Just because their site says they won't, doesn't mean they won't. Don't be so damn naive.

PS. It says "Issues outside the game", just because it's on a forum doesn't mean it's not an issue within the game. Clever wording.

Making a morality judgement about a person who "cheats" in a game is contingent upon there being a universally accepted definition of cheating, and there is no universally accepted objective definition of what constitutes cheating in FF: Online.

Despite what many MMO players believe, Terms of Service agreements cannot be referenced for this definition because they are not legally binding contracts. They are informative guidelines. SquareEnix's real power is that they can terminate your account for any reason, at any time, and without recourse, and they have this ability with or without a ToS.

Essentially, this means that cheating is defined as whatever SquareEnix chooses to say it is to any particular person on any given day. As they are allowed to arbitrarily interpret the definition on a case-by-case basis, this means there is still no universally accepted definition of cheating, and thus attempting to argue about the morality behind it is completely meaningless.

That having been said:

MMO's are businesses. Businesses need revenue. Revenue comes from keeping people happy and playing.

People are not happy and do not keep playing if they feel other users have unfair advantages over them. This is subjective, however -- some advantages are completely game-breaking (you can teleport to a mob as it spawns and claim it before me), and some are just minor annoyances (you can see group TP and I can't.) This also depends on who you ask.

Thus, SquareEnix's interpretation of what defines a bannable offense depends purely on the combined opinion of their users. (And their combined dollars.) This essentially makes it definition-by-democracy.

This also means that without sufficient negative user opinion, a certain action will not become a bannable offense. By the above argument, this makes it not cheating. And this makes a moral judgment irrelevant.