LTB Aurum Cuirass

We're not talking about base damage...thats not why mythics OR relics are as good as they are. The additional bonuses on the weapons make or break most of em, and the WSs make or break the other useful ones.

He's not talking about base damage either. Vajra and Burtgang are trash. Terpsichore isn't as great as it initially sounds for a variety of reasons (and nobody needs the step accuracy, come on now). Nobody gets Tizona for the macc, and it's been marginalized quite a bit by Abyssea buffs since you spend all your time casting (additional effect procs less and matters less). BLM's weapon has never been good. OAT gives Ryunohige some stiff competition. Kenkonken is great for BLM puppet but I could see Verethragna being the better melee weapon, as the master far outdamages the automaton in such situations.

Good mythics: WHM, SMN, PUP, DRG (maybe), BLU (mostly outside Abyssea), COR.

I dont see how you can call vajra or burt trash. Please explain.
Terps is brilliant if you can be bothered getting it, although with presto its now a +1 rather than a full upgrade.

Cor is completely over rated and honestly the magian weapons will proberbly out do it easily.

I forgot whm for winja.

Vajra: Was weaker than an X's Knife at 75, hasn't been buffed enough to be worthwhile, unimpressive damage, ***delay. Mandau is still better, and so is Twashtar for that matter.

Burtgang: The reduction to enmity lost is trivial. The PDT is marginalized by the use of shadows. The enmity isn't worth much at all seeing as hate caps. Given all this, killing faster is preferable... hence Excalibur wins. Same reason you should be DD tanking over using a PLD, basically.

Not really. 205 delay really hurts your TP gain, to the point that Twashtar mainhand would get you similar TP gain (and far better DPS). PK is a ***weaponskill and job mechanics prevent you from effectively maintaining aftermath anyway, so that's not even worth considering. You can easily cap step accuracy without Terp so that isn't a factor at all.

Enhanced QD damage is not to be underestimated. Armageddon is the better weapon for pewpewing, but that doesn't make it outright superior.

Yagrush is a macro -na tool.

Vajra is a SA or TA toy. As most of a thf's dmg should be coming from SA/TA WS, Vajra is a potent piece.

PDT is marginalised by shadows, yes, however against anything worth useing shadows against, your timers will coincide at times, thus making PDT useful. Your also forgetting blood tanking or /rdm. Theres a reason why so many PLDs have undergone the -9PDT trial for sham+1, and burt beats that by 5% - over 50% increase.

Terps is for the extra finishing moves on steps, not the dmg. And yes, PK sucks.

Death penalty i was mistaken on. For some reason thought it was a direct damage boost rather than %...i'll grant that one.

What...? Holding TP or waiting on timers is lost damage, you should be using both asap rather than trying to pair them.

If that 5% (hell, even that 14% - not hard to build a good PDT set without the Shamshir) isn't the difference between life and death, it's not better. 99.99% of the time, it should not be making a difference, ergo Excal wins. If it did make a difference, DD tanking would not be the accepted standard at this time.

No ***, but my point is you gain TP that much slower with a 205 delay dagger over a 176 delay one given DNC's high DW. Ergo, you're not gaining that much TP, if any, in properly buffed situations. Thus, the enhanced DPS from a better mainhand weapon is preferable. It's not as valuable as you seem to think it is.

Forget vajra for now, i dont have the parse data to argue that atm.

With burt, i know. However as far as 'DD tanking' goes, most of that damage comes from atonement - no difference in dmg between excal and burt. The extra 5% PDT just helps the healers mp (although in abyssea thats a moot point). As i have basically said, its an upgrade from shamshir+1 - and a potent upgrade. As with almost everything in this game, its situational, but thats all. In the situations where PDT builds are useful, burt is the best mainhand weapon.

Terps just allows more use of flourishes while remaining the same tp gain as before. Tbh tp gain as a dnc is a moot point if you know the job. Having spare FMs to allow u to wild flourish for a DD to solo chain, or building for your own WSs while not sacrificing any extra time or tp is very useful.

Edit: for the SA/TA part..thats a '/' meaning 'or', not combined. I didnt write SATA as a singular. Besides, seperating them will deal more dmg overall.

For terps i dont DD very much, so tp gain and playing beneficially to the party is the ONLY thing im concerned about. My DoT is pretty much an added (although nice) extra.

Yo seiri, was gonna say I could help with the ZNMs leading up to Tyger, but then I saw what you need to fight...

Lamia ZNM path looks HORRID D:

Haha yeh kuni. Been that route twice and hell if im doing that again. Just boring.

You don't have it at all, because you're wrong. (hint: parses are flawed)

So killing faster is useless?

Only if it's the difference between survival and death.

To what actual benefit though? Group 1 is highly situational, Group 2 is out because Reverse Flourish > *, leaving only Climactic Flourish... Marginal at best. At that point, I'd probably just step once per RF cycle if I didn't care about debuffs.

Better TP gain means more opportunities to DD while supporting, so it still matters.

Except those share timers with Reverse Flourish.

Should be splitting SA, TA, and WS unless TP and SA or TA timers line up, since there was apparently some confusion there.

Suck less?

"DD" DNC to me is completely separate to a support DNC that seiri says thats all she cares about, for a DNC to DD you have to use up TP that you also use for healing party members and such, so trying to do a solo darkness while your party is geting its *** kicked isnt being a good support.

I'm not saying be a DD DNC, I'm saying use your surplus TP when all your other duties have been taken care of rather than letting it go to waste.

If i didnt have it i'd say so, if you pay attention i have given up points where you were correct. Please pay attention.

PDT is useful in any blood tank situation where your mages MAY run low on MP. In most situations, your PLD is there to survive and put as little strain on healers as possible while keeping the targets attention as much as possible. I repeat what i said before, i am not talking about lolabyssea where the mages have almost unlimited mp and NMs are pretty easy. Im talking oldschool areas where mp is still an issue at times.

As a DNC im rarely sole healer...meaning RF is used VERY rarely. As such, a WF for a sam to gekko for example, sam hits 1.5k gekko, frag for 750 - 750 extra dmg contributed.

For the dmg difference between burt and excal..excal wins for DoT..i know and i have ALREADY acknowledged that point.

Edit: Grp 1 flourishes...if i can throw off a VF when its up thats a little extra dmg and a short stun...that dmg adds up and the time relief adds up.

Also you say use your tp when its free...thus dropping to 0 tp (im assuming u mean WS). So when something goes wrong and you actually need to play the 'backup healer' role, you have too little tp...very smart.

You pay attention, because you haven't conceded enough points yet.

If MP is such an issue, why was SAM/DRK/MNK tanking the norm long before Abyssea was released?

Same issue as SA/TA and WS. If TP and timers don't line up perfectly, Reverse Flourish is far superior... and even then it's very close.

Then why are you still trying to argue Burtgang is superior? DPS is more important 99.9% of the time, therefore Excal is better 99.9% of the time... and you don't upgrade a weapon with that kind of time investment for the 0.1%, especially when a Shamshir will more than likely sufficient to save you in those situations.

So use your head and spend that extra TP safely. Wait for RF to be up. Use it to kill a mob. If /SAM, pop Sekkanoki or use Meditate. Any of those combined with your normal TP gain (if your gear is at all acceptable) will put you back in safe territory within seconds.

JA delay means that's actually slowing down your damage and your TP gain, so it's a loss of TP and DPS actually. Stunning TP moves is obviously an exception but if you're stunning at timer it's awfully hard to do that because oh wait VF isn't actually up...

SAM/DRK/MNK cant tank higher end NMs like higher tier ZNM, higher tier VNM, mobs where DoT from the pld is irrelevent but survival and mp conservation is key. If you can afford to lose the extra pys protection then yes, go DD style. I have also said that burt is situational, and am NOT trying to say burt 100% of the time.

For RF, the only time i really need it is when tanking or solo healing or proper solo. Thus when playing support as a backup healer, why bother reversing when its not needed and i can aid the DD dmg with a different flourish?

Being able to instantly react to issues that arise = backup healers role. Even if its for a few seconds, to be unable to assist in cures because of a mishap is unacceptable to me.


Cant argue this, not would I, i didnt write that part well but we're agreed on this point.

I have read this five times now and this still makes no sense to me.

My bad.
A DRK, MNK or SAM wouldnt be tanking mobs such as T4 VNMs, T4+ ZNMs and others of the like. On such mobs, a PLDs DoT importance falls short compared to survivability and ability to put as little strain on the healers as possible, thus -PDT is useful for these situations - and these are basically all a PLD is needed for outside of abyssea these days.

You're still making absolutely no sense.

Since when?

Tinnin - DRK tanked it at 75, SAM could tank it too, don't see why MNK couldn't.
Sarameya - SAM tanking was the norm last I checked for lowmanning at 75.
Tyger - is a ***, but still SAM tankable at 75.

Only ZNM where PLD is preferable is the flayer, due to his shield mechanics.

What VNM did you have in mind? Yilbegan was often PLD tanked but other non-DDs were better at it than DDs or PLD, so that's irrelevant.

Then why upgrade it over Excal?

Because it's a greater enhancement to damage than your method with no appreciable loss?

Blood tanking is generally inefficient.

PDT gear is great to swap to when your shadows (or third eye etc.) are down, and recast timers are not up yet. Once timers are back up, you recast shadows, and switch back to your TP set.

Burtgang is bad compared to other alternatives, specially when you take into account the cost/time investment etc.

The extra PDT on Burtgang would only be relevant if it's the difference between survival and death. (It's not)

In short: Killing faster is preferable. (you don't kill faster with Burtgang)

Also, heads up: PLD can achieve ~40% PDT without the weapon slot... which makes most of Burtgang's additional PDT over Shamshir far less valuable.

Dont know what else to say.


Your know more skilled drks thn i do then, and i'd still take PLD over those 3 for higher lv NMs simply for the error margin allowance PLD has. Also i've seen a sam try to tank tyger - he was well geared but still failed horribly.

I never said upgrade OVER excal, please dont put words into my mouth. I never said it was BETTER than excal, i said it was SITUATIONAL, so it would depend what you regularly tank as to which you upgrade - and guess what, if you want to cap PLD totally - only reason to invest in relics/mythics - get both.

I dont WS on DNC when im in a support situation. End of. My job isnt to kill fast, its to keep the DDs alive and killing.

So he just sucks and so do you by association.

Also; you're wrong about everything you've ever posted on any forum ever.

In which case... Burtgang would only have 1% more PDT than a Shamshir +1

The cost/time is irrelevant for what im saying - its for CAPPING the job, the FINAL things you do for it.

LolDynamis blood tanking is often the best combination.
/RDM situations - no shadows.
Etc


I am aware, but the extra PDT on burt would open slots for extra haste etc.

Thank you ^^ please tell someone who cares.