RDM/SCH?

Hey ive seen alota ppl going RDM/SCH, im mostly melee 75's and starting lvling rdm recently, soon to be 75, so i still got alot to learn about mage jobs and as sch goes lol ive no idea till i lvl it. But what are the benefits of rdm/sch over the more traditional subs?

I'd be curious to see the rationalization behind this job choice as well. I know why I like WHM/SCH, but haven't seen any point to RDM/SCH since overall it seems much more limiting than beneficial. However, I'm only a so-so RDM so might lack imagination.

Regen II and Aspir? No clue.

1. conserve MP
Light arts: Penury / Dark arts: Parsimony
cuts the MP cost of the spell by half / 50%

2. fast cast
Light arts: Celerity / Dark arts: Alacrity
cuts the casting and recast time of the spell by half / 50%

3. sublimation
extra mp, but unable to refresh yourself if its active- they dont stack :(
ballad only!
and taken from wiki: Gradually creates a storage of MP while reducing your HP. The effect ends once an MP limit is reached, or your HP has gone too low. The stored MP is then transferred to your MP pool by using the ability a second time.

reasons why i can think of for /SCH as sub

p.s 75 sch or sub sch = alot of macros for job ability. ;P level it to 75!

You get...
Higher skill caps.
Benefits from light/dark arts (Reduced MP cost, cast time, etc.)
Clear Mind II
I think more MP than whm/blm not sure.
Conserve MP
Sublimation (An extra 250 or so MP every 2 or 3 minutes.)
As well as a nice mix of spells from both whm and blm like na's, Regen II, Aspir, etc.

Just REMEMBER that you can't have sublimation and refresh going at the same time. SE has it rigged that they both don't work concurrently, which is probably a good thing being that SCH and /sch are pretty bad ***.

(for link, see under "Notes/ Description)

(a) You actually have a reduced MP pool, so overall the Conserve MP of your once-every-90-seconds /ja probably is negated. (I'd have to do testing on that, tho--if anybody else has stats I'd be delighted to see them.)

(b) Really? Higher skill caps? Actually, for Enfeebling, that's bottom line correct, so right there, if you want the boost for Enfeebling, that might make it worth the effort. Add to that the boost for Dark Magic, which you wouldn't even need on /whm, and even though DM isn't as high as for /blm...it's decent. For other magics...not so much. I haven't tested it and am only going off a general sense, so I'd like to see stats rather than general assertions. Guess I'll go home and try it.

(c) Refresh > Sublimation over time, plus if you happen to have low HP and need the Sublimation you're screwed anyway, so better to just have Refresh up.

(d) Celerity/Penury & Parsimony/Alacrity are nice, but only up every 90 seconds. Does the Fast Cast and/or Conserve MP trump the natural Conserve MP of the /blm option? On a purely technical basis, does using (say) /ja "Celerity" <me> /wait 1 /ma "SPELL" <wtvr> actually increase FUNCTIONAL casting speed for anything other than super-long-casting spells like "Raise"? In actual battle situations (either solo or group) I'm still not positive I see the benefit over the older, more time-honored subs. I guess I'd want to see its effect on something like Cure IV or even Refresh/Haste (which it might possibly help significantly, if all you're doing is being the fresh ***).

Overall, though I understand that there are some benefits to it, potetially (like I said, having Aspir and Regen II might be nice) I'm still not certain I'd prefer it over other options. Kinda like going 75WAR/37MNK to an endgame event. Sure, you've got Boost...but...uh...convince me it's amazing before I try it myself.

(I mostly want to know who's tested it, not who can read the wiki, see the job traits, and jump on the bandwagon.)

EDIT: Clear Mind II??? When was the last time I RESTED as RDM? Uh...yeah. >.>

O.oa Correct me if I'm wrong here... But...

Rdm has C+ Elemental Magic, C- Healing Magic, E Dark Magic, and E Divine Magic.

From what I understand about Dark/Light arts is that they raise the cap on any skill you have by a certain amount depending on how high the skill caps for your job level.

So, Elemental and Healing would raise 26 lvls and Dark/Divine would raise 46 levels.

Imo... That's a pretty drastic increase and certainly worth losing a couple int and some MP.

But... I could be very wrong here.

*** or gtfo!

/breakdynalinkshell

Wait a minute where am I? Is this /b/? ^^

Oh oh oh oh let me let me! I love breaking pearls, it's @ 276 cap with 8/8 merits =)

I'm not sure how, as SCH has higher MP than both BLM and WHM from my experience.



Depending on your HP, Sublimation > Refresh. A galka RDM would possibly get more use out of Sublimation than Refresh, especially with Refresh actually giving 40MP less than it's amount restored due to casting costs.

But, you can make use of both Sublimation AND Refresh. Store MP with Sublimation before you go to your PT, so you have a free 250 or whatever stored before you run low/start. When you get low on MP and you need it, pop Sublimation and get the MP back.



One of the nicer perks of /SCH is the -10% MP cost and recast time for White/Black spells, depending on which Art you have active.

EDIT:



Light/Dark Arts raise their respective skills to a B+, from what I understand, regardless of normal skill cap.

Hmm. Okay, about the lower capped skills you're right and about the higher capped skills I'm wrong.

I'm at work and not paying that much attention.

Enfeebling and Enhancing would be completely unchanged by LA/DA, Divine/Healing and Dark/Elemental would be raised to a degree.

Which means that, for what I normally use RDM for, mostly what I'd have to do is use a /ja before doing almost everything, and I'd lose some MND toward my Enfeebs? I could maybe get used to it, but for sticky situation hit-fast Cure III/IV the delay for /ja might be a bad thing.

Divine Magic isn't worth much to me, Dark is somewhat nice, otherwise...depending, Elem/Healing is good.

To Hitetsu: I'm not sure how it works, but when i switch from WHM/BLM to WHM/SCH my mp pool goes down. I'll have to try it from RDM/WHM to say for sure, because of course BLM MP > WHM MP.

My biggest issue is that although you get the nice 10% off card for the strategem you're using, if you flip from one to the other you get a 20% hit, so you absolutely have to use the JA in order to receive the benefit.

So that doesn't really matter when mostly what I'd be doing would fall primarily in the LA category anyway, and then I'd get the benefit. But if I had to do much switching (can't see when I'd do that, except for maybe soloing) it would take effort! And I'm lazy!

One interesting thing I noticed...if I had one merit in Dark Magic, would /sch increase my Dark Magic to 256? Or still only 246? This I'd love to check, but I'm not putting a merit into Dark Magic just to look at it. ^.^

Also, if you're /SCH and using Sublimination, that's one less person to refresh.

Yeah... I never use Divine Magic, but I have found lately that I use Elemental quite a bit due to a lack of Black Mage power.

Do you really have that much of a problem landing debuffs with Enfeebling Magic gear, rdm merits for magic accuracy, as well as their 2nd set of merits? I hardly ever have a debuff resisted, but I get Elemental Nukes resisted all the time with blm sub and 'semi-decent' gear. @.@

And you're most likely going to know your role in a party before the actual fight, which makes switching from LA/DA a little easier, right?
DA, enfeebles, then either leave DA on for nuking / reapplying enfeebles or switch to LA for healing.

I'm actually just looking for information, since none of the RDMs in my ls use /sch at all.

I'd sort of like to try it, but I'd need to justify it to the leaders first. So gimme ammo and I'll try it out!

And no, I don't have trouble landing debuffs, so the fact that /sch wouldn't really affect Enfeeb at all except to take away a MND or two from /whm doesn't both me.

lolRDM/SCH.. /sch is good for merit PT not more nor less ..

/SCH is like subbing RDM for a RDM ?! it's non-sense sub for RDM .. if It was that good it would be common sub .. & I'd be like one of the first ppl that perma sub /SCH .. I think it's dumb sub & make non-sense D:

1st : the flexibility of RDM where?! .. It restrict yr abilities as RDM in Graimores .. means if you're in Light Arts it's true that u will get bonus for fast cast & mp cost but in same time u will have issues with BLM spells like sleep/gravity/bind/blind/bio .. more mp cost & more time for cast/recast

2nd : Conserve MP it's right it's that good trait but seriously good RDMs shouldn't lose thier MP that fast to care about Conserving MP as trait .. that what's Convert 5/5 is for !!
I don't think CMP is capped @50% activation rate D: .. beside it's too random to get activated .. if you can't conserve your mp .. It's either your problem or your tank or your alliance problem

3rd : Sublimation is totally pointless for RDM .. which is one of the biggest advantages for WHM "or SMN in some cases" subbing /SCH ... Sublime doesn't stack with yr refresh ! & it's slow to fill from SCH sub .. what would u take 2 mp/tick that's is will be fully stored in about 5:30 mins "/SCH" or Refresh 3 MP/tick that is on-going NOW ?! using sublimation to have store MP to throw some buffs on PT members before you refresh yourself is not the best reason that motivate you to sub SCH !

4th : Stratagems .. excuse me! only 2 charges every 2 mins to recharge what are u gonna use it for?! u don't have Reraise to throw it before or some long *** spell that you might want Alacrity for ! also the biggest mp cost spell RDM would use is either Raise or Cure IV .. & by the time you use Penury another competent WHM or RDM would have cured you target .. I don't mean that I don't use Stratagems as SCH main but it's totally different in this case 4 strategems 1 min recharge I can always have stratagem up & ready to use ! another point /SCH fail for RDM

5th : Fast Cast .. this is maybe the only good point about /SCH but whenever u have Loq. Earring & AF2 Body & AF1 head u r already @42% Cast / 21% recast .. Fast Cast capped @50% casting / 25% recasting .. what's /sch gonna offer 8% to cap? \o/

6th : Regarding Light/Dark Arts bonuses for magic skills .. you won't get any bonus for your enfeebling/enhancing which is the core for your job ! what do you want that for more elemental skill ? /o/ since when RDM nuke in HNM situations D: !! unless you can stack elemental magic that high to get around 320 skill & you have INT ~120 or you have plain 330 skill you won't nuke for ***on HNMs D: ! beside highest tier you have is only t3 not worth it .. for Dark Magic skill you only want that for Stun "when you're /DRK or Aspir & Drain" & believe me 256 skill is not enough to aspir or drain efficiently .. gotta stack more skill gear to be acceptable in endgame situation .. healing magic skill bonus is useless .. last you're losing much important stat for your enfeebles potency MND ! /SCH gives you much less MND than /WHM or /BLM & you want every bit of MND to give your enfeebles more potency !

7th : /SCH is more for situations where you are literally haste & refresh *** in meripo ! RDM is more than that D:

I am too lazy to level another mage job, only reason I am not touching sch right now.

as for my experience w/ being lazy, agreed. i got stuck on carbuncle thought id solo scholar to 75 from 37. took me 2 1/2 weeks to go from 37-75 solo. that was being lazy w/ the job >=]. so if you feel itll be some kinda pain in the ***. SOLO ftw. follow lions blm solo guide on wiki, onlything sch can arrive to them camps a lil sooner than blm. FYI sch way over powered. exploit it while you can, SE will gimp it.

not in early 50sh ~ 65sh camps .. SCH totally sucks that can't one shot since no AM .. which is the keypoint for soloing those levels .. u want a defensive sub .. /nin all u get is shadows but still more important no bind-gravity & u have only 1 sleep .. "sleep II for sch requires Addendum & u get access to that lv65 iirc" .. the only good sub for soloing sch is /rdm but u better have enfeebling skill capped / merits to survive some camps ..

& SCH is overpowered but not so broken outright .. u still have Strategems fatigue *cooldown timers* & restriction in gear choices toward some particular skills/MAB

i remember seeing a sch/nin solo at bibiki; their tier III + ebullience did as much as AM :d
but they also had HQ gear... sleep/sleep II shouldnt be problem because dark arts + addendum book should be up anyway, since that's the only way you can have access to tier III's at that level. if not having gravity or bind is a problem with soloing, theres always Alacrity (fast cast thing) + sleep since sch has no stun :P

ebullience doesn't turn tier III into flood .. bibiki bay levels can be done with either flood -> drain .. or one shot flood .. or tier III pull -> bind -> stonega 3 .. or 3 tier 3 but here where parsimony shines .. lol stop trying to outdmg blms .. dmg/mp cost ratio > dmg per cast .. still if sleep resisted even alacrity won't save u lol. bind & grav r yr friends

didn't say it turns into AM, :D said it was equivalent from what i saw! if the SCH soloer is failing at soloing rarabs, they should seek into duoing with a blm then until the exp sucks :d there's also the option of being a healer til 67 and make manaburns @ mount zhayolm ... like what i did >_>

Okay, this was sort of my initial reaction to the rdm/sch thing. Thanks for the small number of stats, I'm too lazy to look up the Fast Cast cap.

(But yes, if I'm on LA 100% of the time, in a situation where I'd otherwise be /whm, and I don't have to -na very much--thus using up my JAs on a regular basis--then it might be entertaining. Idk.)

for the majority of the time rdm/whm will outshine rdm/sch. You wont need to use a stratagem on addendum white to get -na etc. /SCH is useful in very few situations, most likely when you are doing ONLY one thing. ex: if you're soloing/mainly nuking, rdm/sch may be okay because you will have access to dark arts which will boost your elemental skill and give you access to some stratagems.

When you are main healer or PLing someone RDM/SCH might be a good choice but if you're doing a mix of enfeebling and possibly nuking you might not like it. Switching between the arts for 1-2 spells will become a pain and having to paralyna or poisona someone when you were in dark arts form will get on your nerves. But it is great if all you plan on doing is curing, offers Regen 2 which will help a bunch and the extra 10% off each spell is nice, the strat gems I usually save to cut MP on a cure 4, or if I'm between 20-36 MP and I don't have refresh and convert is not up(highly unlikely but has happened) then its a good use. Only other situation I could think of would be fighting Imps, perhaps you're silenced, without echo drops and you need refresh, Sublimation ftw!, then if you get caught with Amnesia, Refresh ftw! caught with both, you're screwed. Yeah the only real situation I could see RDM/SCH working would be in those parties where you're stuck in Haste, Refresh, Cure cycles. I seem to find these more than any. that extra 4 MP from each cast adds up quick.

k well 1 point is, i just did it, so youre wrong. AM or not i achieved it. yes, you need /nin, yes you need to use classic manaburn NOT AM one ***a pet. but, thats obvious right? sch dont have AM. but again, whether you wanna believe it or not, i care not. look to left, see it say 75 sch? accept it, i did it, youre wrong on almost all accounts of what you said. noob it up pal. millions of eyes are watching.

When i think Scholar i think Storm from X-men.
When i think Redmage i think Keanu Reeves from Constantine.

So essentially your Keanu/Orm.
In theory you are the ultimate Demon killing / Kondike bar eating badass to ever walk the earth.
Not to mention you have the latent ability to destroy the planet at a whim.

If exorcism and golf ball sized hail is not "Ancient Magic" May i be struck down via a Demon klondike bar the size of a small handicapped kids special bus.

whats anyones 75 blms AM2 do at base dmg? what is it, 1500? All am2 has base dmg not counting gear merits etc. k, not to say eub turns anything into anything, still tier 3 no matter how you observe its dmg. BUT!. my 75 scholar nukes tier 4 blizzard w/out iceday for 15-1600 w/ eub obi and alot of nice lvl 72 gears. hmm, if my memory serves me right on AM2 base dmg. sure seems eub does add alot of dmg to make things happen like a blm. Bet your *** my solo run, i used eub every nuke. my secondary stratagem was alarcrity, macrod to my sleep 1.
/ja alarcrity
/wait 1
/ma sleep <t>
so i pretty well always have eub up and am using it during most all nukes (doesnt take many when youre popping off at 1500 a nuke) so yea, it dont turn it into no AM, but i wouldnt of done 37-75 so quickly w/out that added dmg. again i would like to add, sch is NOT a blm, CAN be compared damage wise, NOT spellwise. blm has infinite access to GA. sch dont, blm has infinite access to AM2. sch has to eub w/ weather and obis and ugly pendant, with klimaform. really hard to compare being so many variables. if you wanna talk dmg, yes, some sch's can make some blms look weak. True, im a 75 blm too. to the guy says sleep alarcrity wont save you. obviously you didnt know sch kicks your *** in enfeebling magic skill dept. at lvl 62 was it? dont recall. i had base 75 blm enfeebling skill of a 75 blm. sleeps arent that big of a deal. really, not something you want to make a issue. i could manifest a link of incredibly toughs and they would all sleep for 30 seconds unresisted even w/ the spread happening. alarcrity will save your *** when youre subbing /nin and want that sleep timer back in 7 seconds cause it failed. lost count on how many times it saved my *** during my solo venture. again, if you aint 75 sch and 75 blm wearing decent gear for both, please dont post *** statements.

*add* bibiki bay pets, you eub cast run to camp and tier low or drain to win. blms gotta do that too sometimes? AM then use secondary spell to finish it off. nope its not AM. but damn that dmg does par w/ blm.

1. Merit PTs where you're basically in Refresh/Haste/Cure mode. Light Arts & Regen II ftw.
2. Any situation where you find yourself nuking a lot. DA is a nice boost to elemental skill.
3. Boost to Dark magic combined with access to Drain/Aspir. This makes it a lot easier to reach higher damage tiers for Bio II/III.
4. Sublimation takes relatively little time to activate. If you are kiting something, you might not have time to sit and cast refresh, but sublimation won't delay you much. Celerity +Refresh for 1/2 casting time would also work.
5. Overall increase in MP efficiency through Light Arts/Dark Arts + a decrease in casting time and the 1/2 mp stratagems. Throw in a Conserve MP trait.
6. Lower recast times on spells like gravity, sleep 2, drain, aspir, and raise. 1/2 casting time on raise from a stratagem can be nice too.
7. The clear mind II is irrelevant. RDM gets up to Clear Mind III by 75. And no this won't do much to boost your Enfeebling/Enhancing, but that's not all we do.