Mana Wall Good? Bad? |
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Mana wall good? bad?
Gilgamesh.Zythum said: Now tarus have no excuses for wiping after a /slap or 2. Other races... /sigh. Tarus are already much advantaged for playing blm, now they are a bit more. Not saying tarus aren't still the best race for the job but just saying that there are still downsides to having it as a race. I love Mana wall. Today we were doing Limbus: NW zone. Mana wall saved me from Meteor. I only got 164 damages on HP after it wiped all my MPs. Its so cool! LOL
its awesome.. all the cool kids are doing it
I love mana wall. So much win in one ability.
Ramuh.Dasva said: Hmmm heres the real question. When is this factored. Before or after or between what parts of dmg taken calc. PDT, phalanx, stoneskin. Where it fits on there can be pretty big on how to use it and such. Like if it is at the end hell yeah I might just use it anytime things look like they might get hairy. If it's before PDT just ewwww. Phalanx ok who cares... if its anywhere between PDT and stoneskin still nice but a little less leary on using it then if at end Good news Dasva I posted this thread idea on blue gatir and a person there did more tests with mana wall on it. It turns out it is at the very end.... PDT, phalanx and stoneskin will all be active before mana wall's effect kicks in. Here is the link. Excellent. Then instead of a maybe rare occasion use it will be more like use fairly often ability
I don't play BLM, but I'm curious. If you have Mana Wall up and something casts Drain on you, what happens? Does it still drain HP, even though MP is taking the fall? Or would it be like Aspir instead?
Alexander.Almostunsane said: I don't play BLM, but I'm curious. If you have Mana Wall up and something casts Drain on you, what happens? Does it still drain HP, even though MP is taking the fall? Or would it be like Aspir instead? Mana wall... when you're about to hit 0 mp... convert... Drain your HP back... :P too good!
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Ok, seeing this thread made me think of an idea. I haven't done any testing, but if what's been said in this thread is true, it could work.
Blood Tanking as x2 BLM/RDMs: Idea is to use the 50% reduction with Mana Wall + 50%(or close to) with gear in PDT or MDT when necessary. Leading to an overall 75% reduction in damage. Now, cut this down even further with Phalanx. Toss in an un-interruptable Stoneskin(due to Mana Wall) and you've got a pretty sturdy tank as long as you keep Haste and Refresh on them. Running low on MP? Throw in vert without any concern for quick death. 100 damage attacks reduced to 25 damage, phalanx would drop that to 0. 200 damage to 50, phalanx cuts that down a bit, but toss in the un-interruptable Stoneskin, and you'll still be kicking ***. Things probably needed: DD/THFs to shift hate on BLMs so when one Mana Wall is about to wear off, they can put on the other BLM. Something with Refresh, to keep them going, BRDs, RDMs, CORs, SMNs... Crazy ish, but I think it'd be cool to see. The damage reduction 100% of the time would be greater than what a PLD could muster, for sure. That is, if gear damage reduction is done with Mana Wall reduction. Speaking of that I wonder how hate loss is figured out from this.
I mean you lose hate from taking dmg... but you aren't techinically taking dmg so do you lose anything while this is up? And blm has alot of hate tools even if SE did just kill a few. Hell you don't even have to blood tank most the time could just have it as back up for when blink goes down not to mention 100% chance to recast ichi lol Ramuh.Dasva said: Speaking of that I wonder how hate loss is figured out from this. I mean you lose hate from taking dmg... but you aren't techinically taking dmg so do you lose anything while this is up? And blm has alot of hate tools even if SE did just kill a few Oh dang, didn't even think about that! Making BLM a totally beast tank if there's no hate loss :O Also another thing that usually makes blood tanking bad is tp given to whatever you fighting.
But again only if you take dmg normally. Note this one will be a bit easier to test then emnity loss from dmg Bah, if I'm close to 76 on BLM, I'll test enmity and TP-feed out. Can't remember how far I brought that buffer though...
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ok, seeing this thread made me think of an idea. I haven't done any testing, but if what's been said in this thread is true, it could work. Blood Tanking as x2 BLM/RDMs: Idea is to use the 50% reduction with Mana Wall + 50%(or close to) with gear in PDT or MDT when necessary. Leading to an overall 75% reduction in damage. Now, cut this down even further with Phalanx. Toss in an un-interruptable Stoneskin(due to Mana Wall) and you've got a pretty sturdy tank as long as you keep Haste and Refresh on them. Running low on MP? Throw in vert without any concern for quick death. 100 damage attacks reduced to 25 damage, phalanx would drop that to 0. 200 damage to 50, phalanx cuts that down a bit, but toss in the un-interruptable Stoneskin, and you'll still be kicking ***. Things probably needed: DD/THFs to shift hate on BLMs so when one Mana Wall is about to wear off, they can put on the other BLM. Something with Refresh, to keep them going, BRDs, RDMs, CORs, SMNs... Crazy ish, but I think it'd be cool to see. The damage reduction 100% of the time would be greater than what a PLD could muster, for sure. That is, if gear damage reduction is done with Mana Wall reduction. I think this concept might be feasible but in the end with all the work it would take just to do it...... I don't think anyone would try this. Plus in the end it wouldn't be worth the effort put in to doing it. (plus if someone does do this and it becomes popular 10$ SE will make a patch to nerf the skill) Overall great idea but I don't think will see in practice. Oh and your math is a little wrong most likely.
Before it was said manawall was last so chances it will mostly be for say that 200 be -the 50 or so pdt so 100 then take the phlanx off to say 70 then apply the reduction from manawall to make it 35. The only way it would work the way you want is if the reduction was applied up front but the mp loss wasn't factored till the end. Which is kinda convoluted I think SE actually did a really good job adding this JA to BLM's arsenal. If not for anything but in those "oh sh&t" situations where bind and or sleep is resisted and shadows are down, you're getting pummeled and spell interrupted. This JA is a secksy lifeline.
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I think it's bad.
Sure it could save you, but now you're out of MP and a mage with no MP is worthless. Plus now you'll have a bunch of reckless BLMs who think they're invincible along with a lot of BLMs with no MP. I can already see someone using Mana Wall during some NM fight and using it to avoid an AE, then try to act bad *** but now they can't do anything. Or you get a BLM Sleepga-ing some mobs, mobs wake up and beat on the BLM, mana wall, now it's 'Ohh no now I have no MP to sleep them again.' Ramuh.Dasva said: Oh and your math is a little wrong most likely. Before it was said manawall was last so chances it will mostly be for say that 200 be -the 50 or so pdt so 100 then take the phlanx off to say 70 then apply the reduction from manawall to make it 35. The only way it would work the way you want is if the reduction was applied up front but the mp loss wasn't factored till the end. Which is kinda convoluted Aaah, so Mana Wall reduction is the last thing calculated? I was assuming it would be calculated at the time as other PDT(which is right before Phalanx and Stoneskin reductions are caculated). But SE could have very well, just thrown in the Mana Wall reduction at the very end of the code statement. Has it been tested? Because Stoneskin still prevents damage right? So the Mana Wall calculations would still come before Stoneskin. It all depends on if the reductions come before or after Phalanx. Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Oh and your math is a little wrong most likely. Before it was said manawall was last so chances it will mostly be for say that 200 be -the 50 or so pdt so 100 then take the phlanx off to say 70 then apply the reduction from manawall to make it 35. The only way it would work the way you want is if the reduction was applied up front but the mp loss wasn't factored till the end. Which is kinda convoluted On one of my earlyer posts I posted a link that went to a forum that had someone prove that mana wall takes effect at the very end of the damage modifyers. You might want to take a look at it. Titan.Darkwizardzin said: I think this concept might be feasible but in the end with all the work it would take just to do it...... I don't think anyone would try this. Plus in the end it wouldn't be worth the effort put in to doing it. (plus if someone does do this and it becomes popular 10$ SE will make a patch to nerf the skill) Overall great idea but I don't think will see in practice. I don't see why you wouldn't see it in practice. Other than the people who refuse to have anything other than a PLD tank their NMs. Think of NMs like Orcus where shadow tanking simply isn't an option. If you're already forced to blood tank, why not get the tank with the most damage reduction? With Mana Wall, BLM is already at the cap that PLD can get without shield blocks, have that BLM wear some more PDT and you've got yourself a sure-fire protection as opposed to: "I sure hope my shield blocks procs right now or I'm dead." I agree it's situational, but I play this game for the funs. Being able to tank as BLM would be so boss. I was hoping that if people saw my idea, and liked the thought of it, they'd do up some testing as well so that I can already know what to expect by the time I level BLM to 76 to try myself. I have 75 PLD, but I'm more interested in doing new stuff. PLD tanking is an obvious choice, but let's say if you ran by an LS and saw a BLM straight blood tanking something. You'd probably think, "wtf? BLM blood tank? O.o" Caitsith.Mahayaya said: Titan.Darkwizardzin said: I think this concept might be feasible but in the end with all the work it would take just to do it...... I don't think anyone would try this. Plus in the end it wouldn't be worth the effort put in to doing it. (plus if someone does do this and it becomes popular 10$ SE will make a patch to nerf the skill) Overall great idea but I don't think will see in practice. Im all for trying new and crazy things in this game. The reason I think people won't get on board with this is well you said it yourself people would rather do things that work before trying out experimental strats. Also this strat requres at least 4 people (blm,blm,thf or /thf,refresh) that know what they are doing at all times and there is little margin of error for the blms and the thf if any of the 3 make mistakes it can only end 2 ways: 1 the blms lose hate compleatly or 2 (the more likly case) the blms will die causing a wipe if you have no other forms of a tank in play. That is not even my main worry about for this strat... my worry is what will happen if not just works but if it works so well that it gets to high usage (i e how SE will react to this). This is clearly not what SE had in mind when they made this skill and I don't know about you but the last thing I want to see is SE nerfing this skill. Using Mana Wall and Manafont last night worked amazingly well. Only one IT mob was smacking me for 0 damage, but I figure I'll eventually get a chance to try it with more mobs around.
Fairy.Raikan said: Using Mana Wall and Manafont last night worked amazingly well. Only one IT mob was smacking me for 0 damage, but I figure I'll eventually get a chance to try it with more mobs around. lol... maybe I should add to the op that manafont plus mana wall does not = Invincible because everyone seems to think that manafont = infinite mp ><.(not directing this just on raikan many people have been making this mistake) Did Apollyon SW last night as COR BLM duo. My BLM friend popped Manafont and Manawall and -ga III'd the everliving ***out of the poor unsuspecting elementals. It was pretty baws.
so, basically BLM now has Invincible+2 as its 2-hour
Invincible *Physical Immunity Manafont Wall *Physical Immunity *Magical Immunity *Infinite MP Siren.Thoraeon said: so, basically BLM now has Invincible 2 as its 2-hour Invincible *Physical Immunity Manafont Wall *Physical Immunity *Magical Immunity *Infinite MP Ugh..... for the last time all manafont does is make the cost of casting spells 0 for 30 seconds... it does not make mana wall unbreakable. I repeat it does not make mana wall unbreakable!
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Titan.Darkwizardzin said: Im all for trying new and crazy things in this game. The reason I think people won't get on board with this is well you said it yourself people would rather do things that work before trying out experimental strats. Also this strat requres at least 4 people (blm,blm,thf or /thf,refresh) that know what they are doing at all times and there is little margin of error for the blms and the thf if any of the 3 make mistakes it can only end 2 ways: 1 the blms lose hate compleatly or 2 (the more likly case) the blms will die causing a wipe if you have no other forms of a tank in play. That is not even my main worry about for this strat... my worry is what will happen if not just works but if it works so well that it gets to high usage (i e how SE will react to this). This is clearly not what SE had in mind when they made this skill and I don't know about you but the last thing I want to see is SE nerfing this skill. Yeah, BLM tanking would require a good bit of support to make it run well. Let's compare things real quick. Ideal BLM tank party: BLM/RDM or BLM/NIN x2 RDM/SCH - Potent Phalanx, 3mp/tic Refresh, and occasionally adding Stoneskin COR - Magus Roll and Evoker's Roll BRD - Ballads SMN - To activate HQ proc on Evoker's roll and Diabolos refresh. Outside parties would consist of normal setups but all the DDs would come /thf. Ideal PLD tank party: PLD x2 WHM - Cures RDM - Refresh, support BRD - Marches or Ballads or lolMinnes I think the requirements are certainly different, but I wouldn't say that they're far more than what you'd expect in any other tank party. lol, and you're right. Since the RDM tanking nerf, we are all in fear of what Square Enix might do to our precious jobs if they find out that the abilities are "too useful". |
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