Jesse Ventura's Comments On Religion

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business. I live by the golden rule: Treat others as you'd want them to treat you. The religious right wants to tell people how to live."

"I'd like to clarify my comments about religious people being weak-minded. I didn't mean all religious people. I don't have any problem with the vast majority of religious folks. I count myself among them, more or less. But I believe because it makes sense to me, not because I think it can be proven. There are lots of people out there who think they know the truth about God and religion, but does anybody really know for sure? That's why the founding fathers built freedom of religious belief into the structure of this nation, so that everybody could make up their minds for themselves.But I do have a problem with the people who think they have some right to try to impose their beliefs on others. I hate what the fundamentalist fanatics are doing to our country. It seems as though, if everybody doesn't accept their version of reality, that somehow invalidates it for them. Everybody must believe the same things they do. That's what I find weak and destructive."

- Jesse Ventura

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura

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This surprising (at least, coming from an American politician) set of quotes was brought to me by a good friend of mine now living in Florida. I thought I'd share my reply to this + a few other thoughts, if you're only willing to read that far.

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I like how he tries to help religious people come to realize that they in fact aren't really sure whether they have the truth, that they only believe it because they want it to be true. But first saying something so strong and significant about organized religion and then backing off, saying that his problem applies only to a MINORITY of religious people!? Did he lose his nerve after his comment was made public? Sadly, the end looks to me like an apology more than an actual statement about faith.

I feel his reasoning ends up being very close to "self-defeating". Most agnostics, rationalists, etc. nowadays, in North America, seem to be trying to avoid hurting religious people at all cost. If everyone who doesn't believe in supernatural things tells to himself "I'm not supposed to impose my non-beliefs so I will not even state them" , the religious organizations will always win because they're based on the concepts of expanding, preaching and converting. It seems, though, as if not believing has been made into a belief. Many think that atheism is a disorganized "religion" preaching there's no god.

"people who think they have some right to try to impose their beliefs on others"

How to draw the line between sharing and imposing ideas?

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These are personal thoughts. You don't need to agree, but if you've been following my previous threads, feel free to discuss:

I've been thinking a lot about all this "critical thinking VS faith" issue recently, trying to live up to whatever standards I've been trying to encourage. Questioning whether or not it's okay to try and encourage religious people into questioning the relevance of their faith. Whether or not it's actually even realistic to "teach" someone to question what you're teaching him. And the more questions come to my mind, the more I feel I need to discuss.

For example... I've been thinking about philosophy classes in college. How students, 90% of the time would complain about the irony of having a teacher who told them to question issues, but at the same time, wouldn't seem to act accordingly. Can one person really "teach" philosophy to a class of 30, if all these students are going to question every single statement he makes? How could this even be called school? It seems as if the very foundations of our educational system are flawed. If the world was to truly evolve in a secularist direction one day, would school as we know it need to completely disappear? If so, what would replace it? What then would we classify as knowledge?

After all, it's true that the schools we have now, as secular as we'd like to imagine them to be, are still based on a model that was initially dictated by religious authorities. Unless you have a pretty awesome teacher, you could hardly imagine a philosophy class filled with people debating democratically, like in the days of Socrates. The fact that this guy never wrote a single book but that even then, people looking up to him did, goes to show what probably happened with Jesus. The guy said things that made sense, then people added bits from the mythological stories of Hare Krishna and Horus, etc. to make him into a superhuman... when in fact, he was probably a regular, everyday, normal (although slightly masochistic) guy. It seems as if lots of people will chose to worship something even if they're suggested not to. Is this behavior innate or acquired? Is it some kind of neurological disorder, as Bill Maher would like to have us believe?

religion is a crutch...that is all

All....glory...to...hypnotoad...

All glory..to the...Hypnotoad...

All glory.. to.. hypnotoad...

best .gif ever roflmao

The same could be said for any organized world view or philosophy such as political ideology, rationalism, or even atheism. People can be just as poppycock sure of democracy, science, etc and want other like-minded people to tell them what they want to hear. That's the point of pretty much any voluntary organization; you join a bowling league because you think bowling is awesome and want to be around people who also love bowling and you're not really interested in what bowling haters have to say.

I think Jesse and fellow libertarians need to lay off their Rand-rage and realize that humans are a social animal that isn't meant to be completely independent and that like-minded people getting together is not a bad thing (something to think about at the next libertarian get-together).

Awesome post Veg, says it all.

You're right that most movements or groups have the same way of doing things than religions. As I said myself before, even after religions finally disappear, other threats to critical thinking will still be. Religion is not the only problem keeping us from evolving. It's mostly this mentality of not questioning and accepting beliefs as facts. Did Neil Armstrong walk on the moon? It was shown on TV! Do you know? I don't, and you don't. It's not like there's much point in questioning it today, but we have to admit we don't know. I could easily have been a hoax.

As we speak, religion still IS one of the biggest threats to our intellectual development... since our development requires doubt and religion discourages it. If religion encouraged us to doubt religious beliefs and presented those beliefs as theories, it wouldn't be religion, it would be science.

Those who take one scientific theory and state it as if it were an indisputable fact are just as bad at the people claiming God can't not exist and must be worshiped. They're idiots and we should try not to be. As a start, perhaps you should try and understand what modern rationalism is... it means not believing in something supernatural... If you're going to call that a belief, well I think you're gonna be stuck running in circle trying to prove your point for a while.

Hilariously enough killing God, Jesus, Allah, Muhammad, Zeus, Milhouse, and the Hypnotoad would most likely save more people than believing in them ever would.

I'm just saying if you look around, Religion in general causes more death and destruction than good will.

Seriously, we live in the twenty first century, I think it's about time everyone grew up.

We know for a fact the world wasn't created in mere days.

The world is much older than any creation myth.

We know man came millions of years after things like dinosaurs.

You will *** die if you're eaten by a whale for three days.

Man wrote the bible, not god.

The Earth is blue, but there was no God.

Native Americans.

Etc.

Seriously, there's no invisible man out there. You ever wonder why god would only tell a few of his beloved children his rules and how to get into his wonderful heaven? Because he was made up thousands of years ago by a, relatively, small group of people.


It just bugs me that even today there are grown men and women out there that fervently believe in something like a God, then can call something, like Zeus or The Flying Spaghetti Monster, imaginary with a straight face.