Religion: If You Don't Believe In It Why Does It Bother You?

While it seems logical to think that those who follow a religion can become better people, due to the teachings of that religion, it's ultimate effect is negative.

No matter how good the ideas within a religion are, by putting a specific label on that group, by setting themselves apart from the rest of humanity, they are claiming to be closest to the truth. Why else would they remain in that religion?

It is true that some religions aren't actively converting, but the passive existence serves the same purpose of isolating those not within that faith. Religion screws with our ability to pursue true human spirituality. All of the religious people you also see as good, ARE good, but they are not self-realized. If they were, they'd be able to distinguish that religion has a negative influence on their lives, since it limits their expression and own development.

So most religions aren't trying to take over the world in a sensational sense. Often they just want to remain an active and vital presence in the world. But the view of seeing themselves as the best, truest religion causes division and allows them the capacity to have the opinion "wouldn't it be better if everyone was of our faith?"

Religions try to teach good things, but do so in a cult-like manner. They have gatherings, rules, regulations, and practices that they have a multitude of justifications for, but in the end they restrict a person's naturalness, and their ability to find the same "good things" without the false help of religion. All sorts of actions that wouldn't normally be justifiable become ok within religion as well, because when it's passed down by the tradition that's "most true" then there's no need to question it.

Think about trying to believe something contradictory from the religion while still within it. It creates enormous tension because no matter how true your ideas may be, they are a threat to the religion. That is when the true face of religion appears - they will treat these "outside" ideas with malevolence. One small example is the Fatwa in some areas of Islam, when a person who is a threat to the religion is marked to be killed. Religions don't want to change or consider the truth - they cannot ever be part of the real truth, because their very existence is divisive, going against the best of their teachings.

Once again, learning and following the good teachings in various religions are ok. For instance, instead of being a Christian, or following that faith, read just the things Jesus taught, and learn how those are good and truthful, and how you can grow based off of those teachings. Forget the religion. Toss it. There is no need for being a part of these groups that stamp out free thought and the ability to connect with others. These bad things exist within fundamental rules or teachings of a religion (for instance, the lie that all people are sinners, told by the Catholic church, so that those people come to that church), and even if you try to be open minded, or free-thinking, it is with the precondition of you being "within" a religion, creating internal stress and pressure that may hold you back from grasping at any real truth.

As far as Atheism is concerned, it can also be a label ("I am an Atheist"), and that is where it becomes false. Not believing in the concept of God as an overlord, or father, or omni-potent, invisible being can just be a realization that does not need a label attached to it. The labels imply an un-peacefulness towards or dominance over those who are not within that group. Knowing the truth is a completely different matter, and has been said, goes beyond all borders and divisions.

Atheism is not a belief system any more than not liking chess is a hobby.

Such wisdom

alright, that's a pretty astute way of putting it

has anyone else noticed that some of the most fallacious and emotional thinkers on these boards, like korpg, constantly bring up logic and talk about how logical they are

while the actual logical thinkers like darkshade or jaerik or anye rarely feel the need to beat their chests and announce the fact that they're actually using logic, as opposed to talking about it

people who are true logical thinkers/speakers/debaters never have to state they are logical. they simply allow it to be seen.

hehe; me too friend, me too :3

and you know this ... how ?
not saying I know any better ..
just saying that your turning what you think in to fact for everyone not everyone "Thinks" that Religion limits them. For the most of what I have read people who do not believe in religion "Think" it's bad and those who do believe think it's good.
(>^.^)>u u<(^.^<)

I like ideas more than beliefs. Beliefs tend to be set in stone, and are devoid of any change or adjustments. Which is contrary to human nature because we ourselves as a species adjust to change. To follow something so static would only bring self-imposed limitations upon ourselves.

/opinion

because you think it so must I
so it works both ways
so you don't like me to think what i want but you can think what ever you want

(>^.^)>u u<(^.^<)

People are free to do and think whatever they want. "Belief" is a part of human nature. It may not be religion, but every person believes something. Maybe you dont believe in a god, but you seriously believe that something is gonna grab your feet when you get out of bed in the middle of the night.

The only time i have a problem is when people's beliefs affect others. Belief is a personal thing. Once it makes you start crashing planes into buildings or attempt to exterminate an entire religious community because they think its the gods enemy... thats where i want to punch babies.

The only problem with that reply was that he never stated anything to be factual. With that in mind, what he said was nothing more than a jumble of a bunch of opinions and beliefs with no empirical backing; just like ALL religion and atheism.

That is why, no matter how many pro-religion and pro-atheism debates there are to be had. Nobody can bring a factual argument to the table for why one is better. The only thing that can be had is the mere believe of what is better to each individual.

i had the god squad knock at my door yesterday, i wanted to slam the door in their face but that woulda been rude @.@

...and this wins the thread and is the reason why i stopped bothering to argue about religion around age 14

there's currently zero absolute proof for either side, which means you can argue for eternity and get absolutely nowhere

if you REALLY want to waste time arguing, you may as well at least argue about something where you can come to a definite conclusion and someone can learn something at the end of the day

you may as well stop wasting energy and let the thread die, though i know that there are enough people who will pointlessly continue this debate for eternity that you may as well put it in undead, even though it would really be best off in flame core, since that's what these threads invariably turn into >.>

Religion makes a virtue out of not thinking. -Bill Maher.


Pretty much sums up my feelings in a nice little package.

Btw, Atheism is a religion too (To above user). They're as positive there is no God, as a Christian is positive there is one true god.

I'd say if anything.

Atheists = Linux users, cause they're so far up their own *** with undeserved sense of superiority that it sickens me.

Agnostics are WIndows users, they just want to fap and play games, and don't give a ***about everything else.

Mac users are the Bundled religions, unfounded solace in an inferior product for no other reason than "It's cool brah."

If I walk up and say "I have a dragon in my garage," you assume I don't until I prove it.

If I walk up and say "I don't have a dragon in my garage," you don't assume I do until I prove otherwise.

These are fundamentally different arguments and humans only seem to erroneously conflate the two when we're talking about religion.

A few points:

By human spirituality, I mean a manner of being that can expand into the infinite, beyond words, boundaries, and categories. Religion does put people inside of a box, even if that box is to say "I am of the ____ religion". Just that is enough of a box to create division and limit the infinite potential within every person.

As far as beliefs go, the following is the bitter truth:

All beliefs are false.

That being said, what I said above is the truth, and not a belief. I don't believe religion to be divisive, it is. I don't believe that no religion is close to the truth, it is true that none of them are. And so on.

Furthermore, truth will always be multi-faceted. It's foolish to always think in dualities, like "pro" or "anti", as this same thinking is what makes religion a negative influence in the world. And please do not dismiss these things based off of an idea that they are "anti-religious", for there are many good things within religion. But if we can throw out the organized group aspect of religion, and keep only the good things, religion as we know it would disappear. So, this sort of anti-religiousness is not a denial of all within religion, but just of its structure.

Take any good idea, say, non-violence. Then say a religion was established around it, to teach people to be non-violent. There would be the people being taught, the teachers, and also those who came up with the guidelines of the teachings. Suddenly there is organization, which now has to deal with the threat of falling apart. They start to slip into the teachings reasons why non-violence is best achieved through their organization, and these are taught as equal alongside non-violence. People start to tie in their identities with the organization, and will begin to see those outside of that organization as a threat to the religion as well. Suddenly, the members who want to pursue non-violence by means of this organization must become hypocritical by viewing those outside the organization as a threat, and therefore the outsiders become a source of badness, and violence, whether they are conscious of it or not, grows in the follower's hearts.

Perhaps that example can serve as a view into what I am talking about. Religion may claim to be based around good things, but in reality is based on the fallacy of needing to create an organization around those good things. Thus they must strive to make the religion as a whole self-justifiable, and the good with the bad are presented to the people as the path towards goodness. In this way, religion steps on the real truth, and thus real spirituality.

As far as atheism goes, as long as it remains a simple word to denote a lack of belief in God, then it is not a static position or a religion. But my question is, why use the word "atheism"? If you want to pursue truth, and as you have found it thus far there is no God (from the Christian, Jewish, or Islamic perceptions of God, for instance), then leave it at that. Take the dynamic position instead. The face that -ism is used denotes, usually, a religion or philosophical stance, which is a static position and brings with it the ideas of exclusion mentioned previously. If you find yourself thinking things like "wouldn't it be best if all people were Atheist?" or "I am an Atheist", then you are on the wrong track still, even though it may appear that you are outside the trap of religions.

The best statement you made; "All beliefs are false."

Since you have NO empirical data to corroborate anything you say, then that make what you say BELIEFS.

Which in turn makes anything you ever say completely and utterly FALSE. Unless you are able to start whipping out empirical data every time you make a statement, to back up what you say.

To offer an answer to the thread title without reading a single word of the 22 pages of replies:

I don't believe in santa either, but he doesn't have representatives knocking on my door, no-one argues or starts wars about santa, and no-one says that their santa is better than your santa, or that if you were a true believe you'd know it was really saint nick.

therefor: santa > god

Almost but Aetheism is a belief that there is no God or Gods.

Agnostic viewpoint is I am not sure if there is or is not a God or Gods becuase of lack of supporting evidence.

So Aetheism is a a belief system in no God or Gods.

And not likeing chess could be a hobby if you go around spreading yuor point of view that you are anti-chess.

Aetheism is a belief system, a belief in nothing while not likeing chess is only a hobby if you enjoy not likeing chess.

What if you have a Komodo Dragon in your garage? Then all of you are gonna be messed up in the head:)

Dear everyone,

Be agnostic until someone else does the work for you... much like I do with all the math involved in FFXI! XD

Love,

Jesus

Agreed none of us no 100% without a doubt what is true and if you do then I guess then yuo would be GOD lmao. But I know 100% that I cnat type worth ***so guess Im god of poor typing.

While it is true that it's necessary to have what you call data to back up anything that's claimed to be true, this is not in the scientific or empirical sense. Real truth cannot be told, so what I said above was only a starting point, or a point of deviation from what may have been a smaller mode of thinking. So when you talk of data, you are talking of the ability for the truthfulness of that truth to be told, when it is impossible. The data you are after can only be realized.

If you follow what someone else says without at first figuring out the truth of it for yourself, then you are ignoring yourself, and only have knowledge, like the kind you can get from a book. To gain access to real truth, or the data, you must be willing to let go of ego in order to come to realizations yourself while in a natural state of being. This is called the no-mind state, and one way to think of it is if clouds are thoughts, then no-mind is just the blue sky. It's also what you'd call "in the zone" in that you aren't using the intermediary level of your mind to think.

So while you may think the statements I made above are beliefs, they are the truth as best as I can communicate it through words. Beware of the tendency inside to find reasons to push away ideas just because they run contradictory to what you're used to.

But, if there are questions with regards to certain things you feel to be false, those are always worth asking. Blind acceptance or rejection is always the false way to go about it. Instead, seek the truth for yourself.


With regard to religion, ask these things: Does religion make sense to a child? Does your pet need religion to love you? Do you need religion to give love to others? Does every religion think it is the best religion? What happens when you think of yourself as the best? Can the ultimate aim of various religious practices be achieved through other, better means?

Think clearly and the answers and further questions will follow.

Athiests

I'll just leave this here...

As long as we're trolling...NSFW