Tips For Endgame Area Navigation

One of my pet peeves for members of my endgame shell is when people get lost moving around areas - even when there is a group to follow. Be it moving to different towers in sea, a long trek to a ZNM pop, or moving through sky to something like Ulli/Byakko, it never fails that a couple of people end up ruining the efforts of so many others.

Part of this is that some people, for reasons I cannot explain, will not get maps. I personally was able to get all 3 sea maps solo (whm or blm w/ sleeping/logging aggro) so I don't understand why it's a struggle.

Another part is that they might go afk and /follow, which never works well for zones like these. Or they might get lost and only say something when they're at 0 hp.

So, when moving around, as the shell leader, I end up checking the map locations for people about every 30 seconds to make sure no one is getting lost, but even then, that only does so much. I've posted links to every wiki page and route guide that exists on our internal forums, but nearly every time someone still causes trauma.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I asking too much of non-sackholders to be able to navigate their way around without help? I know that personally, I will get lost frequently, but the difference is that I can also find my way back after taking a wrong turn.

The easiest way to teach someone how to run around in any zone is simple... Let them get lost and die. Sounds harsh, yes. But people don't like to die, so they'll eventually learn to navigate or atleast stay with the group.

"Someone come R3 me, I got lost and died."

"Guuuys, raise me!"

etc

etc

Make em use reraise? Tell 'em to homepoint? I'm mean D:

Meh, I always pull up a map if I'm not familiar enough with the area

For the problem makers in sky for Byakko island, just have them die at the stairs and eat a R1. They'll soon learn to pay attention or take the exp loss for not paying attention/being ignorant.

As far as sea goes, it does become a problem when you have to navigate around using the NPCs to open the doors for you. There really isn't much you can do except have a few people run back and open the locked doors to let said member back or tell them not to afk. Maybe start docking points or whatnot for the problem makers.

ZNMs really shouldn't be that troublesome as most areas are fairly easy to get to.

Maybe you could do a map run for people in sea, maybe you could spend some time tossing tier3's at detectors for the coffer key in sky for members... but it really boils down to how much a player cares. If they want to have the map and know where to go they'll do it. I did it. You did it. Why can't they do it?

Welcome to my world.

IN My LS, we make it a POINT to remind everyone to Mark their Maps, and play Follow the Leader.
If people AFK and come back and go "Awwww...where'd ya go"...
We tell them "We're at *NM A* or in *Tower B*" and they have to catch up on their own.
If they Die. then they wait till we're done.
If they get lost, we tell them to find a way back out.

We make sure that (In Sky at least) any time a key falls, we tell people "LOT if you need MAP". and I usually make it a personal point try and help them find coffers.

IF its Sea, and people don't have maps. we leave ONE Leader in the lobby with everyone. 2-3 people spread out (Usually those with movement speed) to find which ever ???'s we're after.
We find them, and the Leader left behind leads the group to the spot.
(We do this simply because Sea maps can be a *** to get...although this isn't an excuse NOT to have them)

I'm in the same boat as you... constantly looking at the map to see where my alliance is.
Gives ya a headache after a while.

is the way we handle it a bit...much?
perhaps. more like "tough love"

But (and this is a TRUE STORY) when you get a member who literally BITCHED and CRIED to high heaven that the group was farming Dio's and they didn't know how to get to us... and we told them "Find your way." they literally pissed all over the LS.
Yeah...they didn't last more then a week.

Is it unreasonable to expect your members to know where the hell they are going?
No.
Just like its not unreasonable for people to learn a little something called "Self Reliance"

P.S. Other FUN TIMES are members (mostly in sky) either:
A) not having a way to sneak and invis and expecting someone to always be there to cast it.
B) the person who decided TO cast it while walking to Byakko...half way there... in the middle of 10 Weapons.

ahhhh...Fun times

I do that too and no you are not unreasonable. Add up the time you are losing because of the people who got lost... it's ridiculous.

That never worked for me. And let's say I let the white mage die so he can learn a lesson... then I can't start this or that NM till he's back because I need to make sure we have Stona.

For some people it's kind of a lost cause, all you can do is keep checking your map and make sure everyone is following. If you have a miraculous solution, please share. ^^;

I do the same, also sea is a *** even with maps, there is a lot of ways that end up in a Cul-de-sac and it doesn't show on the map, the only way to know is to remember each one of them by heart and it's hard since there is so many...

Yeah, this is the biggest issue. I actually have no problems with letting people die or whatever, except more times than I like to think about the person that got lost isn't just some random DD, they're the main tank or a whm or something else crucial to the fight.

Sigh.

Seriously, as a leader this is so frustrating that I just want to rip my hair out and eat it. I eventually just said -5 points to whoever aggros on the way to byakko. It's so frustrating to have to have someone come all the way back just to get 1 person up that couldn't follow the directions.

Also, people going afk while we're running to the next camp and they don't know how to get there.... I really hate those people.

I don't know I found this great JP website for sky navigation a long time ago. http://psohatten.oack.com/FLASH/FFXI17.html Try giving that to them if they get lost with that then there is serious problems you can't solve lol.

I run groups too and really do not have this problem, just take the time to teach people the areas and maps, no one should ever get lost in sky, after about a week you should be able to run anywhere blindfolded.

all good points, and yeah it sucks when people move as a group and some people get lost. that is on them. but sometimes areas are really confusing if its your first time. and some maps and guides arent very helpful if the ways arent obvious. so sometimes people just need some info while trying to follow the group. sky for instance, if its your first few times, and you dont have a map and the group gets ahead of you while youre checking a map thats covering the game window. but yeah if it becomes a problem then its on the player

I've been learning this the past few months trying to lead. For the most part I've been pretty lucky with people knowing their way around, but I've had to help some find the way. I haven't led, or even done much sky, but Sea I have found to be the worst. I know Liq had to put up with me (and more-so my other half) on an occassion or two... best to have someone keep watch and make sure everyone is holding someone's hand especially if it's someone important lol.