Rajas Vs. L/K

If you dont own Lava and Kushas ring how can you understand the true value of 12 acc and 6 attack! For all we know you know have 2 snipers and can only count to 10!

I used woodsman, but yes I do find that wearing them has made me completely unable to do any maths based on more acc or sTP.

BRB, just going to finish off CoP and camp the 2 NMs so I am allowed to add something constructive to this thread.

Need to be more specific if you want math. Things like job for example is a huge one. DoT/WS ratio, current attack and acc values, target mob, ect.

I was assuming his math would include different situations. Because we all know everything is situational in this game.

Ask a speciific question and ill try to give you some math than veg and arg will give you better maths w.

Mostly curious about nin, which is better for solo/lowman stuff like fov or skilling up. Then which is better for say limbus, when im using food but fighting harder stuff, and sometimes get a brd. Kind of general i know, need more specifics?

True but we have it down to BLU and SMN. Attack is likely to be not much above the amount you get from STR and Skill, as they aren't like to get attack buffs.

Target mob is the massive unknown, but we can narrow that down based on the fact neither BLU nor SMN will be meleeing Tiamat etc.

The best way to approach it would be defining what situation makes 1 set of rings better than the other.

Say a 44dmg sword. Rajas is a 2.7% increase in damage purely from the 5STR.
For 6 attack to give the same boost in your attack must be less than, 6/0.027 = 222 (which is impossibly low)

So in terms of pure hit damage Rajas + anything > L/K ring, even when we ignore the small amount of attack you would get from the 5STR.

From an accuracy point of view, its 9.5 (assuming HQ) vs 12 is an obvious win to L/K.

But as has been stated, a good BLU should being using sushi so is likely to TP in 380-420 acc (after food, depending on gear). Which I would have though would be enough to acc on anything BLU is 'allowed' to melee.

So without any real details we can theorise that in most situations where a BLU is meleeing (assuming semi decent other gear) Rajas + Acc ring would win.

If you lack some of the better gear (no homam, no perdu) then you may want to consider L/K, but to make that decision we would need more data.

So the str would have a bigger effect on katanas because senji is 38 dmg, making rajas even more of a shoe in than on swords?

My setup is pretty standard for nin, 20% haste, Senji/perdu, suppa/brutal, usually /war, sometimes /dnc for solo/lowman stuff.

The same can be said to NIN, they use low based D weapons, so rajas is a large increase in damager per hit, and similar restrictions about accuracy apply.

It would be rare for a NIN to be able to meat on anything 'worthwhile' (limbus, einherjar, nyzul etc) and NIN won't be meleeing at anything really hard (Wyrms, Gods, T2+ Jailers).

So if you are stuck with pizza/sushi then you may as well build to it. So full haste, foragers, rajas etc.

Although the ring slot (unless if is give you a xhit build) would be one of the first (along with sea torque -> PCC) I would change if you are finding yourself at lower than 95% hit rate.

Edit: I was writing this while you replied, so it doesn't directly answer your question, but should help

Edit2: For farming FoV and the such (EM or lower mobs I guess), you would probably be able to eat meat (if you want to spend money on farming Tabs) and in this case you may have to thing about your accuracy. But it is likely to be capped simply on the basis of being a decently geared 75NIN.

Sweet thanks for the advice ^^

Your Math is welcome, clearly the thread isn't going where I intended though it's still very informative, so bring on the math to compliment the opinions, though I still would like the opinion of someone using both (about to read Page 2 now, there may be one already just havent checked yet).

Edit: I'd like to point out that my SMN was only 57 for a sepcific CoP mission via burns and someone left the group so I didn't need it anymore because our replacement had a different job. This would also be a good topic to discuss for my MNK. Anyways strictly for BLU right now:

Yes it's true, I will never melee Tiamat, HOWEVER BLU physical spells are ALL affected by melee accuracy regardless of whether or not you are engaged. For 1-hit spells such as Cannonball you may see some people in Vulcan's however for the most part they'll be using Beast Slayer/Ifrit's/Wing+1 / Genbu's/Acheron(+1). Anyways, just thought I'd clear up the fact that rarely is a BLU asked to cast magical spells, so accuracy will most likely always be relevant.

For things like this, math >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinions. This is not a subjective matter and should not be treated as such. The value of magical spells, on the other hand... that is at least partially a matter of opinion.

I agree with this, toreadors x2 or sniper x2 would probably be better as stated, but it's such a small upgrade for ~6mil, and hardly even noticable at all with pizza existing now. I don't see how having a +7 ACC ring along with rajas automatically makes it better than L/K. It's still the same stats, you're still getting less ACC than L/K, and you gain ~1 FSTR and store tp(Which is almost 100% useless for dw jobs really).

I think the correct order is 2x Sniperx2/Toreadorsx2 = L/K > Rajas + Snipers/Bloodring/etc.

It's not automatically better but generally is.

For 2hnds rajas/toreadors offers only 1-2 less acc which like you said is nothing and 2-3 less att big whoop. That 1-2 fstr will easily compensate for that. The 5 dex will improve your crit hit rate. That 5 store tp can make/break and Xhit or at the very least make it so you don't have to swap out acc or haste or something to maintain that Xhit.

For DWers it's 2-3 less acc and 3-4 less att again who cares you aren't riding the acc line like that. That 1-2 fstr could 2-7% increase in melee DOT. And store tp is far from useless in DW jobs. Getting to 100% tp an attack round or 2 faster is enough reason to put some store tp on where you can. Though due to missed hits it might not always do so and sometimes in comparison it might even do more. And again you up your crit hit rate. Not to mention the subtle blows helps alot since all that fast attacking gives mobs tp like crazy.

1-3 acc and 2-3 att vs 0-5% crit hit rate 1-2 fstr 5 store tp and 5 subtle blow, oh and of course this guy is a blu so stat mods for spells seems like Rajas is a clear winner to me except in rare cases

Well, in the defense of Rajas, firstly it's an End Game Ring. For all DD jobs that can use it, who own the gear to back up a Lower Hit Build.

LK rings are definitely a nice combination for say, Leveling up. And or for the people who choose Sattva or Tamas over Rajas. As the post above says it's less expensive then Snipers +1, and or Toreadors.

The general rule is that if your accuracy is lacking you should stack up on more accuracy. While yes using Pizza is nice, it's even nicer being able to equip better gear, while using other food that can provide a bigger impact on your overall damage and performance.

Pizza is accuracy -AND- attack. No other food provides that in the quantity that Marinara Pizza +1 does. Changing your gear (say from Rajas/NQ acc ring to L/K) is going to offer only a couple accuracy difference. That alone isn't going to bring you automatically into the realm of being able to eat meat instead of pizza.

This argument really seems kinda pointless though. If you have a Rajas, and it brings you down a hit (or attack round) to 100% TP, use it. Otherwise, who gives a damn?

I got the L/K rings because I need acc in my mnk build - I don't have any usukane gear yet - and didn't want to pay for T.rings or Sniper's +1. I plan to use the ring sets whenever I don't need the extra sTP of the rajas.

That and they make a sweet AF or Penta ring set.