It May Sound Harsh, But The Only Way To Help Africa Is To Stop All Humanitarian Aid..

It's not a "12 year old attitude". It's called Isolationism. We have way too many problems at home to worry about everyone else.

Also, we do not need a global socialist government deciding for us to redistribute the wealth from all the haves to the have nots. You want to be a "have" then work your *** off and hope you get lucky. Our country is already plagued with thousands/millions of uneducated lazy wastes of human life because of our government deciding to provide everything for them, now we want to have an entire continent following the same path?

If Africa wants these things then let them figure out how to work together to make it happen. It's not like we can force our ideals on a group of people who don't want them anyway.

All of this has been covered in this thread in previous posts, but I assume none of you read anymore? Just skip the work and start regurgitating the same info repeatedly? We're just all in love with our own words, aren't we?

That's your culture of narcissism for you. A society of pseudo-solipsists that wait eagerly for someone to guide them.

Maybe I'm just expecting too much from a forum on a website for "gaming".

I'm just going to stop while I'm still sort of sane.

Sane but a huge downer!!!

Being a "rich country" involves having more than other countries around us. It's mathematically impossible for money to have any value if everyone has the same amount of money in their bank account. Money loses it's purpose when that happens.

Why is real money trading illegal in FF XI? Simply because injecting a lot of money in an economy does nothing but drive prices up. Can you imagine what would happen if *every player* on a specific server was given 50M gils? Would they be able to buy anything at the AH anyway?

Think about it for a second. Now, tell me that it's possible for the entire world to be wealthy like us... by learning how to fish... after we've killed all the fish... >.> We're rich at the expense of the poor countries... We need to be pretty naive to think the world will "develop" and everyone will live happily with unlimited resources. We're fighting over limited resources and hoping for unlimited profit.

We (people who have the time to discuss on web forums rather than work our *** off in a rice field) have ancestors who created a game called "capitalism" and convinced the entire planet to play it and we've been winning at it so far. Every time countries have tried to play with different rules, we have successfully discredited and destroyed their system (need I give any example, I think it's obvious what I'm talking about). We had to because we cannot win unless everybody plays with the same rules.

Unfair? Yes. Selfish? Of course. A good reason to be ashamed? Damn right. Smart? As long as we manage to win...

If the money is yours and you want to keep it, keep it. If you want to donate, donate.

Wait, isn't that the same for your culture also?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't humanity nothing but a bunch of people who cling onto others for guidance, and only those who can truly lead would lead us into a better society?

So, do you really mean what you said, or are you just angry at America for some reason?
Why is it so bad to create wealth, in your eyes?

I mean, everyone wants to be "equal" so wouldn't it be the right idea to create a world where all monatary value is equal around the world?

Where there is one currency, and that everyone's economic standard is the same and intergrated with another?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the ideal that we, as humans, are trying to create today? I know it sounds a lot like socialism, but if you think about it, the only way this "unity of the world" can/will work is if everyone followed the best standard we have. It so happens (proven time and time again, thanks to historical references) that Capitalism at its core works the best for human society.

In other words, for Socialism to work, it has to incorporate Capitalism in the very basis of its framework. Which isn't Socialism at all, nor is it Capitalism. Its a whole new, dynamic, evolving social-economic system that has no name yet. I would love to be the first to call this new social-economic system Korpalism, named after me who just invented it :D

Socialist Capitalism? That's interesting...

It's not bad to create wealth as long as we understand that it's at the expense of others whenever we become able to call ourselves "rich". If there was only you and me living on Earth, for me to be rich, you would need to be poor. And seeing you suffer in order for me to be rich would be a good reason for me to be ashamed of you being poor. THIS, right now, is pretty much what's happening with Africa versus the rest of the world. Our governments and corporations are maintaining them in poverty... on purpose. It's extremely hard (and unrealistic) for them to develop if we keep playing this game of "we're helping them... see? we sent them some food and medicine". This is probably what the OP was trying to express even though I didn't take the time to read it. In order to even have a CHANCE to win, they'd need to kick our so-called "help" out of their borders, get together and "learn to fish", but we have made their situation so bad that their means to do so are quasi-inexistent.

As for capitalism being the best form of system, you're right. At the very least, it gives everyone a *chance* for success. But when people become "rich", large problems arise. Ironically, the very basis of capitalism (what makes it attractive at all) is the POSSIBILITY of becoming rich. Your ideals are interesting but seem extremely hard to achieve. Taxation is a form of socialism. If I win more, I have to pay more tax, which is then distributed by my government to the poor (at least, it's supposed to, but instead they build weapons and invade countries). The problem with taxation is that when your boss asks you to do overtime, knowing you'll be paying a high % of tax on the extra income makes it less attractive to work a large number of hours. In Quebec, our doctors just leave because they're sick of losing 50% of their salary in taxes, they'd rather go work somewhere else and I understand them.

You're talking of establishing the system on a worldwide scale, which would technically work. But there are tons of factors to consider. Remember that socialism was SUPPOSED to work but it failed because greedy people who were put in power *** the rest of their people. You'll need to find a way to avoid this from happening... and to motivate people into participating. Capitalism is motivating, but don't forget why (the lure of becoming rich). Socialism is supposed to be fair, but it can easily be transformed into dictatorship (see what happened in Cuba). It's going to be very complicated to keep balanced, but if it was, it would create some sort of equality indeed. If you pull that off, even on paper, you'll be famous, because many have probably tried before you... and failed.

I said I was done, but I need to clear this up before I throw in the towel, capitulate--whatever.

Know this: I am a misanthrope and nihilist, I do not just have contempt for this America that you so inversely exalt---I dislike the world and all systems and cultures and all the rest of the banality of existing as a "member of society". I have contempt for this species as a general rule. I "hate" everyone; but allow individuals to show themselves as otherwise.

I'm sorry if your victim mentality perceived my words as an assault on only your precious country and ideals, but I don't play favorites, and rest assured that I take offense with everyone, everything, and every society.

Now I'm done.

No wait, let me explain the other part of it: You can't really go "hatin'" 100% of the time, so the times when I'm not hating everything, I just don't care about it. There's no objectivity to life, especially not the social aspect of it. Hating is more of a hobby than anything, it passes the time well when apathy just ...well...gets boring.

Well then, now I think I've satisfied myself and my need to explain basically what is nothing; and don't think I exclude myself from any of this either, I'm quite the self-hater.

OMG dude....You live in the Vatican city thought you were supposed to be a happy person. If you hate evrything that much can I ahve yuor account? If you dont like anything playing FFXI no more won't bother you ;)

Like I said just a huge downer!

I've already quit 8 times. I'm only playing because I can't really find IRL that much more interesting than some MMO when social interaction and society is just as contrived as any manufactured pixel world.



Now onto my incessant need to justify my own thought to myself: I believe this will warrant a separate post, I cannot just leave it at that:

"Hate" and "Apathy" are also subjective. I claim that "I AM" something is a pretty bold statement and is false, we are not static, no term completely encompasses the perpetually influenced. Labels and suppositions of character or ideology are just subjective conclusions, they are never objective. I'm not going to explain it with any further effort, mostly because I'm too lazy to type out passages from the book, but "The Transcendence of the Ego" by Jean-Paul Sartre describes this very well.

With that said, nihilism isn't really all that terrible, in fact, nihilism is most definitely necessary to the "progression" of this species: only by casting away culture, nationalism, religion, class, and the rest of the host of the feeble human construct, can we ever hope to make something better.

Initially, nihilism can be seen as "destructive", as when someone first starts to understand it, all they see that there is the valueless, nothing. However, once you've come to terms with that ~ you realize that because there is no social, cultural, or whatever absolute in this "world", it is in theory possible to just make something "that works" to exist in. The world "sucks" by our own design and our desire for "purpose" when there is none to be had.

When you're not limited by your perception of what is reality, and you realize that we're all pretty much acting like a bunch of clowns on a stage, fighting and dying and destroying in the name of some false ideology or doctrine, then you realize that you can just "be nice". There's nothing to violate your worthless ideals... there's no reason to get "angered" over anything anymore. We'd just be.

I think Bill Hicks said it nicely:

"The world is like a ride at an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it, you think it's real, because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round and it has thrills and chills and it's very brightly colored and it's very loud. And it's fun, for a while.

Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: 'Is this real? Or is this just a ride?' And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and they say 'Hey! Don't worry, don't be afraid - ever - because... this is just a ride.' And we kill those people.

'Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride! Shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry; look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real.'

It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that - ever notice that? - and we let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because... it's just a ride, and we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort. No worry. No job. No savings and money. Just a choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your door, buy bigger guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one.

Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, into a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defense each year and, instead, spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would do many times over - not one human being excluded - and we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever. In peace."

Misanthropy comes into this because the aforementioned idealist world that would be "nice" is just a dream; people will never achieve anything like that because we are caught up in being "human" with all the things "humans" are supposed to do socially and culturally, that too many people have lost perspective and see the world through a lens that is filtered by the social and cultural. Social and Cultural expectations are imposed, they are not the absolute, but everyone is playing the game like it's the only reality.

1:44 am, I tried to make the post as grammatically correct as I could, but there may be errors.


OK OK OK, I think I'm happy with my explanation of everything now. I really bowing out this time. ciao.

Ya it makes no sense.

You are placing the blame on the whole "keeping Africa poor" idea on the governments and corps because it supports your idea that "in order for somebody to be rich, somebody has to be poor." That is untrue. Here is why its untrue: Who pressures the government and corporations into giving money out? Who pressures the rich to donate? Is it other rich people? NO! Its the average person who doesn't have the kind of wealth as everyone, so in order to "even" things out, they demand a distribution of wealth to everyone. The rich are afraid of a revolt (hi2u all revolutions up to 1812) against them, so they have no choice but to do what people ask them to do: distribute their wealth. Except, the rich have a choice in where the distributions go, so they spread it out everywhere and give the public 1 figure saying how much they donated (by the IRS). Its not some "governmental/corporation" plot to keep rich people rich and poor people poor. Its feeding the needs of many by donating.

Taxes isn't a socialistic idea. Its a profit-making idea. Governments tax people just to get revenue, which they use for running the country (i.e. legislative purposes, military purposes, and a few "social" purposes needed to maintain the infrastructure). Governments want people to get rich so they can also get rich based on taxes. Thats why the government has a percentage based tax system, meaning that the more you earn, the more you pay, but you still pay the same "percentage" as everyone else. (On a side note, the percentage does change based on income, meaning the more you make, the higher the percentage you pay. See any corporation tax as my proof at this statement. Delaware has a very straighforward tax system, and easy to understand)

I love how you say your tax dollars are going towards building weapons and invading countries though. There is a way to stop that, in case you didn't know. Its called running for office, or electing somebody who says that they will stop invading countries and/or building weapons. You are at fault for what your government does, because you are the one who elected them into office (assuming that you live in a democratic society, which I would have to assume seeing you are from Canada).

Socialism failed because it assumed that humans won't be humans. Socialism would only work if humans do not have the one characteristic trait: individulity. Because we are different, because we are dynamis, because we are not machines, Socialism cannot and will not work because my ideas are not the same as yours, and we cannot agree to work together for the sake of everyone else.

Capitalism works because it takes the individualist quality in everyone and rewards them as such. If you work hard, you get rewarded. If you don't work hard, you don't get rewarded. While people think that Capitalism rewards people unjustly (famous Anti-Capitalist propaganda would have to be the Walton Children, since they were born into their father's wealth), they fail to realize that if you are rich, but don't work hard to maintain it, you won't stay rich.

There is a saying in Texas: First Generation Makes it, Second Generation Uses it, Third Generation Loses it. What it means is, the person makes the money. Their children uses the money. Their grandchildren loses the money. Its a perfect example of how you have to continually work hard to stay rich. Thats why rich families stay rich over generations, because they teach their children how to stay rich.

Greed is everywhere, you can't deny that. You give the wrong people a lot of money and they will spend it. Thing is, 99.9999% of the world's population is the wrong person to handle the money. Can you honestly state that you can handle having the world's wealth in your hands and distribute it evenly?

I can honestly state that with a lot more knowledge into the distribution of wealth, I can attempt it. But currently, no, I cannot.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I used to feel that way too. Then I read Socrates and Plato. I also read DeCarte. I suggest you read some materals from those three authors, and some other Philosophers, both Ancient and Modern ways of thinking. You will get out of your funk you are in, and see the world as a great opportunity.

Also read Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" while you are at it.

I just skipped all those walls of text. If you have so much time to think about others, think about yourself a bit more, and about your actions.

Whoever had to work to MAKE your own food (farm), be happy you live 2 miles from the nearest supermarket. Development requires a concentration of wealth. If you try to have everything equal, we will all go down the drain, as development will stop.

EXAMPEL: LHC. 1.5 billion dollars cost. No hobby scientist can finance that. BUT, you need it in order to advance. Also for all the smart people, name me products made in africa and what we (Western world) "EXPLOIT" from them. Dont come with the "100 years ago" BS because noone of us is 100 years ld and actually EXPLOITED THEM.

I like that.

I agree

"Why do you think Capitalism works? Why can't anyone realize it?"

If you think Capitalism 'works,' your far more distorted then I thought. The simple fact the vast majority of the world's population lives in poverty should ring alarm bells. I'm well aware of Adam Smith and British Economics, why not look at how the English treated there own during the Industrial revolution and how they spread there wealth during the textile industry, my mistake, they didn't.

"when they should find out what creates their wealth and duplicate it for the greater good of humanity....."

What creates our wealth? Millions upon millions of people in appaling conditions working hard manual labour. Nobody likes to admit they have been fooled by there leaders and betrayed but don't be so blinded by patriotism that it hides you from the truth.

America was built on genocide and the slave trade, if you can't accept that fact, you'll never realise the full crimes so called civilized countries commit. Thanks for ignoring the Lincoln quote though, even though it has resounding relevance today.


Sorry, but using an analogy like "a child depends on their parent for food" to explain the historical, social and economic situation of Africa is simply not understanding and recognizing the complexity.

Again, here's the quote;

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

-- U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864
(letter to Col. William F. Elkins)
Ref: The Lincoln Encyclopedia, Archer H. Shaw (Macmillan, 1950, NY)

"The mathemematical precision may have been stunning 4 or 5 thousand years ago, but i think you will concede any 5 year old can achieve the same results (albeit on a much smaller scale) with plastic building blocks."

How dare you, your ignorance is outstanding. A top Japanese corporation tried to imitate the pyramid's on a smaller scale and could not even achieve it. The mathmatical precision is so precise that you cannot fit a sheet of paper between two stones.

"Off the top of my head, there's Sun Tzu who wrote the Art of War some two thousand years before the West even began to use it, and it is still widely used to this day. Also Confucius, who's teachings and work have had and still have a major impact on the majority of SE Asia. And of course Imhotep, you're beloved architect of Step Pyramids."

Congratulations Sun Tzu is not a scientist or a scholar but a military strategist. "Before the west even used it"? Well how could the 'west' use something before it has been created? Logic fail which goes to show your arrogance and the way you belittle the pyramids just reinforces that view. However well done, you can name one philosopher, Confucius. That's alot off the top of your head! How about an Arabian scholar, or African. Maybe like the 'Scientific Method' created by Ibn-Al-Haytham?

Also, African's also betrayed there own people, chieftan's selling there own as slaves, no excuse to ignore the massive amount of genocide and pillaging of Africa from other countries.

Like with many people on here, you speak of knowledge yet show little yourself and your casual attidtude just goes to show how serious you are about the situation, which is not at all.

well said

Wow, I suggest you research people like Nero, Augustus or Caligula to see what was required in order to create that wealth. Africa has an amazing and in-depth history, no wonder there are those in the west who seek to destroy it and belittle them, treating them like children as if they can't think for themselves.

Rome 2000 years ago? Research where word's like 'decimation' come from, then you'll see who the real Barbarian's are, ironic that, since its what the Roman's called the Visi Goths. Again, 'decimation.'

Raelia pictures like that only serve to show your historical bias and ignorance.

I really do suggest you read 'Pawns in the Game' by William Guy Carr, its a wake up call and his military credentials speak for themself.

"Give a man a fish, and he lives for one day

Teach a man to fish, and he lives forever.

So far, all we are doing is giving them fish."

Yes becuase the economic hardships, historical factors, geographical factors, social factors can all be explained in a simple analogy. Sorry for the cynicism but that's far from the case, the situation is vastly more complicated then simply giving or teaching them to fish...

it has nothing to do with that, what is socialist capitalism... whats the point korpg seems to want to support everyone feels for the poor man etc etc, the single mom. when you die you do realize none of these things will matter in the end? materialism sucks even the way you live.

I do not see whats wrong with his views =/, it's better than anything else... like why the hell can' they make heal care like canada and england.. is it hard no it is not. drop the pride and stop being a *** ????HT ***, or change the god damn rules the our forefather's made or make a new constitution and *** rip the amendment in threads. I guarantee you america in 600 years won't be following the ***anymore.

So much nonsense in this thread. "Socialist Capitalism" what rubbish..

The people of Africa are poor because their governments have been looting them for centuries. Wikipedia keeps a list of the most economically free nations in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_economic_freedom

Out of 141.

Zimbabwe -- 141
Angola -- 140
Niger -- 137
Guinea-Bissau -- 135
Central African Republic -- 134
Chad -- 133
Rwanda -- 132
Burundi -- 131
Democratic Republic of Congo -- 130
Togo -- 129

Compared to..
Vietnam -- 109
China -- 93
Iran -- 80
United States -- 9 (Yes, the US is not the most economically free place on earth)
Hong Kong -- 1

It's simple, by in large the governments in that region won't allow their people to earn money.


These socialists up here have illogical arguments because they believe that people are greedy. Therefore they want to take people who are greedy (and who will never be them) and make them central planners and have those greedy people, somehow.. magically.. *not* be greedy and corrupt when given power over others. They think that the best way to solve peoples own individual problems is to have a bureaucrat that does not know them, hundreds or even thousands of miles away solve it for them. It's a dangerous system where a few people get to use force on everyone else.. and it's scary. It generally leads to walls with machine gun turrets on them and really ugly and perverse ***.. such as the health care crisis we are now in, is a creation of socialist policies during the great depression. You don't get car insurance when you get a job, why do you get health insurance? Because during the great depression a government policy was enacted to prevent paying "too much" money.. so business had the perverse reaction of providing "benefits" one of them was health insurance. Then government made it cheaper for business to buy it with HMO's then for individuals to buy it making health insurance something you received from your employer.. destroying the market and *** the whole thing up for over 70 years, till we find ourselves in our present condition.. All because they didn't want people to earn "too much" money.. talk about perverse.. It also creates intellectual sloth, Was there ever a modern marvel created by someone NOT hoping to get rich? The "greed" is what fuels our ambition and makes us succeed in life.. and it makes some people extremely rich.. it just so happens that when it does it usually improves the standard of living for everyone on earth too.


The capitalists up here are by defending America's version of capitalism.. A kind of Neo-Mercantile or Corporatist/Fascist bastardized version of capitalism.. but this is also illogical because a corporation can not exist in a truly free society.

A "corporation" is a concept created in "laws" by government. The reason it exists is to provide a special form of legal protection from a tyrannical government judicial systems. The extreme liability of running a business is falsely created by unjust government laws. The business are forced to become corporations and then they become servants to the state. Who then lobby government, who then get government contracts to serve government etc.. Think of it like this.. The mafia threatens a business by creating laws, forcing them to join their club where the owners then loose control of their business to the mafia. This is not freedom. A corporation can not be a natural application of a free market capitalism economic system. It's unjust to provide a special form legal protection to a select group of generally rich and powerful people.

Let me paraphrase famed economist Ludwig von Mises and say; A Chocolate King is not the same as a King, because to destroy him you need merely stop buying chocolate. His power only exists by the will of his customers. He is servant to them. Only by combining government force can he then force his customers to be subservient to him.. then he is exactly the same *as* a King.


A true free market system is a true and proper democracy, what you and I think of when we think of people in control of their freedom.. because it allows each and every individual who has a needs to have their needs expressed in the marketplace. Force is what fouls this.. and only government can use force on you, to make you comply or pull the guns out and send you to a prison cell.. or worse.. The mortal is money alone is great, it was the market that invented money (not government) that invented money as a tool.. but money and power together are dangerous.


No matter how you feel watch the below. You will begin to understand if you are an individualist or a collectivist.. and therefore you will better understand the reasons for your political ideology.

I learned to steer clear of threads like this a long time ago.

Of course, I'm going to lurk in it till it gets locked because there's nothing quite like forum drama. x'D

And if the governments of the economically advanced countries are in fact, keeping Africa from advancing, why should we care?

If it takes the suffering of others to allow my family to live comfortably then so be it. It is the nature of humans and all life. The success of one group is dependent on the failure of another.

Just live your life and be happy that you were fortunate enough to be born into the haves and not the have-nots.

In the grand scheme of the universe, we are all meaningless creatures leading meaningless lives on a meaningless planet in a meaningless part of space. So what if the people of Africa suffer, their lives will be over just as soon as ours are, and after they are gone and we are gone it won't matter anyway.

Why waste your short meaningless life worrying about other meaningless lives? Just enjoy the blip of existence that you have before you die like everything else.

Who ever keeps bumping these threads will be forced to live in Africa themselves.

The rest of the thread: tl;dr.

But you can't nuke China, there's just too many of them. Worst case scenario you're still left with about a billion of them still. Besides China isn't that bad compared to the rest of the world. Hell they made Communism work, provided it was with their own spin on it, but even Russia couldn't make it work, LOL! They would definitely have time to launch their own nukes, and BAM! WWIII.

Nuke Africa, that's a whole continent, and a very large one to say the least. By the time you toss a couple of nukes at them, you may be able to destroy a small portion of them, most likely civilians. At which point Another nation or nations would retaliate. Nuking a whole continent just isn't feasible.

Want to nuke something that would really help the would. Nuke Tehran, Iran. And perhaps get another nuke off somewhere in Iran. Now that would make a difference.

Another county to nuke, North Korea. Need I say more?

I thought Christians came across as being the so called authority on how people should live their lives, Catholics especially. Read the Koran sometime. The bible actually comes across as half-way decent compared to the Koran.

Hardcore Christians I can tolerate to a point, then I just tell them to shut up. But Muslims, their whole ideal is if you don't agree with them, then BAM, you're the enemy end of story. Hell, even the hardcore Catholics will "forgive you" for not seeing things their way. But Holy Batman, that Islamic faith, WOW, just WOW! Then spread into the hardcore Muslims, and you get terrorists.

As far as the OP concern though, yeah giving aid to corrupt leaders in Africa, does not help the people there whatsoever. What's wrong with Africa is the influence of, surprise, radical Muslims influence over the people. Combine that with their (radical Muslims) propaganda of US, EU, etc. and the fact their (insert almost any African county here) corrupt leaders horde most aid for themselves, and yeah any promise with the littlest of food, and they'll follow the food no matter who gives it to them.

Africa is not the problem. Religion honestly really is, but take a look at any random civil war in any region in Africa. Very good chance one side is lead by Islamic extremists.

^Do you know anything about religion? Do you know it's influence in the region? Do you know about the different facets of islam, do you know about the different faction of even say, terrorist groups?

I really can't stand ignorant post.

"Religion is bad, religion causes war, muslims are terrorists. Muslims in africa."

These kind of posts are made through following media and not having done ANY effort to understand ANY situation. Most people ITT are just throwing out random scraps of BS they hear on the street or they're just making facts of their own opinions.


To the user above me: It's Teheran, not Tehran. If you want to nuke a city get the name right, maybe you'd end up nuking some peaceful village full of loving unicorns that ***butterflies.