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Stop getting it wrong!
Midgardsormr.Renala
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 373
By Midgardsormr.Renala 2009-11-30 06:55:57
Since I'm a knit-picker at lore:
Quote: In Mesopotamian mythology, Tiamat (Tiamat (Babylonian), Tamtu (Sumerian)) is a giant female dragon which was the primordial creatrix of all existence. She created the world and the gods, though this world had no land and was a vast water-world, filled with the waters of chaos. Tiamat personified the saltwater (ocean) while her consort Apsu (Apsu (Babylonian), Abzu (Sumerian)) personified the 'sweetwater' (freshwater). The intermingling of these two waters created the gods. In the Enuma Elish (the Mesopotamian creation epic), the gods bother Tiamat & Apsu, so the two decide to kill all their children. The god Ea discovers their plan and preemptively slays Apsu or casts a spell that puts him in a death-like sleep (since the waters of Apsu still exist even after his 'death'). Tiamat then sought revenge by creating an army of monsters and a new consort, Kingu (alt. Qingu) to be their general. Tiamat was slain by Marduk who trapped her with a "net of winds", shot arrows down her throat, and then cleaved her body in two, with the upper half creating the heavens and the sky and the lower half creating the earth. Tiamat is Akkadian for "sea".
Dungeons & Dragons (one of the inspirations for the original Final Fantasy) used Tiamat as an evil dragon goddess, specifically a 5-headed dragon (one black, one red, one green, one white, one blue). This is likely where Square got the idea to place her in Final Fantasy I.
This is targetted at the recent screen shots of tiamat, and some people's comments, Btw. {Please forgive me} if you actually know this, Seems everyone I know(Not sure of ls's, since most people I know don't talk about her) don't know that she is indeed a female dragon.
Also not sure if this is even general discussion, or just whining/bitching/rambling. If it is, feel free to delete it mods~!
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Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-11-30 06:56:58
Well whoever posted that is a Wikipedia cut and paster, so perhaps you should direct your rant at Wikipedia!
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Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3663
By Sylph.Beelshamen 2009-11-30 06:59:48
Well, in that case..
back in the kitchen, ***.
Midgardsormr.Renala
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 373
By Midgardsormr.Renala 2009-11-30 07:00:11
Garuda.Wooooodum said: Well whoever posted that is a Wikipedia cut and paster, so perhaps you should direct your rant at Wikipedia!
It is from wiki, I won't lie. I'm a wiki nut x.x;;
Ahem, Anyway. Wiki didn't really say he at all, it was someone on here, which is why I posted the info here ;x
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Bahamut.Rydiya
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7063
By Bahamut.Rydiya 2009-11-30 07:04:05
Of course Tia's a womanly dragon! >.> The name is too damn feminine.
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Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1339
By Garuda.Antipika 2009-11-30 07:08:28
Sylph.Beelshamen said:
back in the kitchen, ***.
That's why the respawn time is that long, too busy cooking.
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 273
By Remora.Hackstealandbot 2009-11-30 07:10:46
more importantly, who the *** cares
Midgardsormr.Renala
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 373
By Midgardsormr.Renala 2009-11-30 07:10:56
Bahamut.Rydiya said: Of course Tia's a womanly dragon! >.> The name is too damn feminine.
Don't ever take that for granted.
People have though "Renala" as a masculine name, Natt(Shortened nattalie) and jess(Short for jessica) as masculine names before. Sadly I don't joke v_v;;
Midgardsormr.Renala
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 373
By Midgardsormr.Renala 2009-11-30 07:14:50
I figure'd I'd post the pic I was directing this at:
http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots.php?id=30209
Hades.Cheyne mentioned tiamat as a "He" :x
Ramuh.Dasva
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-11-30 07:20:24
Yeah but no one cares. Techinically these are there own mobs and while borrowed from other mythologies are not the same. I mean the originally certainly didn't answer to bahamut. Given the description doubt it was weak to water either lol.
So perhaps this Tiamat is a he. Or genderless. Or maybe transgender
Midgardsormr.Renala
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 373
By Midgardsormr.Renala 2009-11-30 07:23:18
Ramuh.Dasva said: Yeah but no one cares. Techinically these are there own mobs and while borrowed from other mythologies are not the same. I mean the originally certainly didn't answer to bahamut.
So perhaps this Tiamat is a he. Or genderless. Or maybe transgender
Thats true, she could be. In d&d, she was a (Correct me if I'm wrong) hydra who apposed bahamut(Or was a black dragon who apposed bahamut, I forget..). But in this, she's a dragon, and works under him. Jorg(Midgar snake) is a dragon as well, so in that same sense "Wtf" comes to question, but in the same sense again, SE needed some bigger names/dragon names with heavy lore behind it, which might be the reasoning behind them using the dragons ^^/
Ramuh.Dasva
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-11-30 07:28:49
Midgardsormr.Renala said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Yeah but no one cares. Techinically these are there own mobs and while borrowed from other mythologies are not the same. I mean the originally certainly didn't answer to bahamut. So perhaps this Tiamat is a he. Or genderless. Or maybe transgender Thats true, she could be. In d&d, she was a (Correct me if I'm wrong) hydra who apposed bahamut(Or was a black dragon who apposed bahamut, I forget..). But in this, she's a dragon, and works under him. Jorg(Midgar snake) is a dragon as well, so in that same sense "Wtf" comes to question, but in the same sense again, SE needed some bigger names/dragon names with heavy lore behind it, which might be the reasoning behind them using the dragons ^^/ Yeah and they never did name the other dozen or so that were in the mix in the cutscenes lol. Though really they could've found more real dragons but might have been hard to find them related to each other or as powerful in the lore.
Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-11-30 07:37:00
Ramuh.Dasva said: Yeah but no one cares. Techinically these are there own mobs and while borrowed from other mythologies are not the same. I mean the originally certainly didn't answer to bahamut. Given the description doubt it was weak to water either lol.
So perhaps this Tiamat is a he. Or genderless. Or maybe transgender
Traditionally you stop talking after the "no one cares" part, else you do indeed, care.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2009-11-30 07:39:41
Actually I'm pretty sure all the wyrms in that CoP CS before Ouryu fight are NM's from somewhere around Vana'Diel.
Ramuh.Dasva
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-11-30 07:40:02
Garuda.Wooooodum said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Yeah but no one cares. Techinically these are there own mobs and while borrowed from other mythologies are not the same. I mean the originally certainly didn't answer to bahamut. Given the description doubt it was weak to water either lol. So perhaps this Tiamat is a he. Or genderless. Or maybe transgender Traditionally you stop talking after the "no one cares" part, else you do indeed, care. I have a strong distaste for tradition
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Ramuh.Haseyo
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22442
By Ramuh.Haseyo 2009-11-30 07:41:07
Since dragons don't exsist, I use the pronoun 'it.'
Cerberus.Katarzyna
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-11-30 07:41:50
Quote: Stop getting it wrong!
Ok.
Phew, sure glad I read this thread. *cough*
Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-11-30 07:42:35
Ramuh.Haseyo said: Since dragons don't exsist, I use the pronoun 'it.'
You must be single.
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Ramuh.Haseyo
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22442
By Ramuh.Haseyo 2009-11-30 07:43:35
Garuda.Wooooodum said: Ramuh.Haseyo said: Since dragons don't exsist, I use the pronoun 'it.' You must be single.
True, but wat.
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Midgardsormr.Renala
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 373
By Midgardsormr.Renala 2009-11-30 08:55:59
This forum has turned to the wrong direction.... if it ever HAD a right direction x.x;;;
Quote: Yeah and they never did name the other dozen or so that were in the mix in the cutscenes lol. Though really they could've found more real dragons but might have been hard to find them related to each other or as powerful in the lore.
Ahem, anyway. I can't remember, i saw.. vrtra, tiamat, jorg, nigh, ouryu, and like, another one shown before 4-2 fight. But I know they have names on the other two x.x;;
Lakshmi.Vawn
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 172
By Lakshmi.Vawn 2009-11-30 09:47:58
What's the point of this? Shiva was a male in lore and female in FF.
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-11-30 10:15:55
Lakshmi.Vawn said: What's the point of this? Shiva was a male in lore and female in FF. I think the point of it all is to get the story straight.
Shiva is an Indian God (Buddhist) and since the Japanese love to make fun of religion, they made Shiva into a woman while keeping some of its "characteristic" traits (blue skin among other things).
So, anything goes in this game to be honest.
He/she/it doesn't really matter, because "it" is still dead after I'm done with it.
Gilgamesh.Areaden
Server: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Gilgamesh.Areaden 2009-11-30 10:54:26
Asura.Korpg said: Lakshmi.Vawn said: What's the point of this? Shiva was a male in lore and female in FF. I think the point of it all is to get the story straight.
Shiva is an Indian God (Buddhist) and since the Japanese love to make fun of religion, they made Shiva into a woman while keeping some of its "characteristic" traits (blue skin among other things).
So, anything goes in this game to be honest.
He/she/it doesn't really matter, because "it" is still dead after I'm done with it.
Shiva is the Ice goddess in Greek myths. She is a she. The Indian version of Shiva is the god of death not ice. So I think Square used the Greek version.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-11-30 10:57:45
Tiamat is clearly female... she's a *** who doesn't put out.
Ramuh.Dasva
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-11-30 11:03:06
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Tiamat is clearly female... she's a *** who doesn't put out. ***'s or GTFO?
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2009-11-30 11:25:11
Shiva, Ifrit, Ramuh, I think many of the avatars are genderless djinni in some myth/religions.
Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 464
By Garuda.Feifongwong 2009-11-30 11:47:53
Odin.Blazza said: Shiva, Ifrit, Ramuh, I think many of the avatars are genderless djinni in some myth/religions.
Shiva - "It's a trap!"
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24692
By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-11-30 11:48:57
Garuda.Feifongwong said: Odin.Blazza said: Shiva, Ifrit, Ramuh, I think many of the avatars are genderless djinni in some myth/religions.
Shiva - "It's the clap!"
fixed
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 327
By Fenrir.Dramanue 2009-11-30 12:33:44
Yep, Tiamat is a she. I think She's even been mentioned as a "she" in some publications about FF. I think the FF1 strat guide for the PSP version (I can't recall if the original Nintendo Power strat guide for FF1 did also...) refers to Her as a "she" as well.
As far as the transgender possibility, I'm all for it. /d/ all the way. ^_^b
Midgardsormr.Renala
Server: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 373
By Midgardsormr.Renala 2009-11-30 12:38:04
Fenrir.Dramanue said: Yep, Tiamat is a she. I think She's even been mentioned as a "she" in some publications about FF. I think the FF1 strat guide for the PSP version (I can't recall if the original Nintendo Power strat guide for FF1 did also...) refers to Her as a "she" as well.
As far as the transgender possibility, I'm all for it. /d/ all the way. ^_^b
Why is 4chan being brought up!!...And why do I know it? Damnit. Anyway, yeah. Its like how carby is a he, and cait sith is a she. They refer to them occassionaly, but not many times..
Since I'm a knit-picker at lore:
Quote: In Mesopotamian mythology, Tiamat (Tiamat (Babylonian), Tamtu (Sumerian)) is a giant female dragon which was the primordial creatrix of all existence. She created the world and the gods, though this world had no land and was a vast water-world, filled with the waters of chaos. Tiamat personified the saltwater (ocean) while her consort Apsu (Apsu (Babylonian), Abzu (Sumerian)) personified the 'sweetwater' (freshwater). The intermingling of these two waters created the gods. In the Enuma Elish (the Mesopotamian creation epic), the gods bother Tiamat & Apsu, so the two decide to kill all their children. The god Ea discovers their plan and preemptively slays Apsu or casts a spell that puts him in a death-like sleep (since the waters of Apsu still exist even after his 'death'). Tiamat then sought revenge by creating an army of monsters and a new consort, Kingu (alt. Qingu) to be their general. Tiamat was slain by Marduk who trapped her with a "net of winds", shot arrows down her throat, and then cleaved her body in two, with the upper half creating the heavens and the sky and the lower half creating the earth. Tiamat is Akkadian for "sea".
Dungeons & Dragons (one of the inspirations for the original Final Fantasy) used Tiamat as an evil dragon goddess, specifically a 5-headed dragon (one black, one red, one green, one white, one blue). This is likely where Square got the idea to place her in Final Fantasy I.
This is targetted at the recent screen shots of tiamat, and some people's comments, Btw. {Please forgive me} if you actually know this, Seems everyone I know(Not sure of ls's, since most people I know don't talk about her) don't know that she is indeed a female dragon.
Also not sure if this is even general discussion, or just whining/bitching/rambling. If it is, feel free to delete it mods~!
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