Bad Sortie Runs are Bad, and so can you!

Fenrir.Jinxs said: »

I'd say MDB is disappointing most of the high MDB gear is also DT and I really think the benefit is coming from that.

This is untrue and easy to test. Go cap -DT and take magic damage. Then bloat your MDB with capped -DT using some of the accessories I mentioned. It clearly reduces your magic damage taken by a lot, and isn't "disappointing" in the least bit. Dodik's Mpaca's example for SAM is an easy example. I have done the same on DNC using Gleti's set over straight Nyame. The difference in damage taken is observably better.

You even have the testimony of Velner:

Fenrir.Velner said: »

Before Fend winning was a crapshoot. With Fend it became virtually guaranteed.

If he only changed one thing (Magic Defense), then it's obviously a very significant stat bonus to have affected his winrate in such a way.

Now if you want to argue having more magic evasion is more beneficial than MDB because it pulls double duty (resisting damage plus enfeebles), that's a reasonable perspective to have.

I just wanted to share some feedback about elemental fetters from D/H boss that I've noticed many DDs simply shrug off, probably due to a fundamental misunderstanding. (Bear with me, I have a tendency to miscommunicate or invert explanations of a "this-or-that" nature, so please correct me if I'm wrong or have something flipped by accident).

Things I'm sure of:

The ability of the D/H Boss, indicates his offensive-mode or sometimes called "Absorbs Dark" or "Absorbs Light" mode in a defensive context. So, Fulminous Smash is offensively Thunder/Light-aligned, and will enable Degei/Aita will Absorb Light-based Elemental skillchains and magic. The correct response is to Nuke with the ascending element, Earth, which is Dark-aligned to proc/prevent an increasing Damage Taken-Minus effect on the D/H boss. (Keep in mind, in a magic strat, you would still do an Earth/Darkness-aligned skillchain like Gravitation > Darkness to deal damage effectively, on either D/H boss).
Here's the part where DDs get confused, and folks just expect to steam-roll over H boss and sometimes fail miserably: If you do a Weaponskill or Skillchain of an element that is a matching the element to his offensive mode, like Light/Thunder in the Fulminous Smash example, Degei/Aita will not only absorb the damage, but also spawn a fetter.
This is the cherry on top: The fetter will also have an associated debuff, that is aligned with it's own element as well. This is explained/quantified below.

~~Things I'm not sure of or may have explained incorrectly here~~:
Things I'm now certain of, having collected feedback from this thread:

[confirmed]: The spawned fetter is the same element of the ability the boss does, so Fulminous Smash is thunder-aligned, so you'll get a purple/Thunder fetter.
The debuff associated with the fetter matches that of element/status effect attributes shown below, and is the same debuff in bold every time that color/element fetter spawns. For posterity, I list out all of the elemented-aligned debuffs on one line. For the purposes of Sortie fetters, the debuff that is applied by the fetter is in bold. For example, a red/fire fetter always gives you the Burn/MAB Down/INT Down effect. ~~(Do subsequent red fetters give you a different Fire-based debuff? I have no idea.)~~

Fire: Addle, Amnesia, Virus, Burn, MAB down, INT Down, Nocturne
Ice: Paralyze, Bind, Frost, Eva Down, AGI Down
Wind: Silence, Gravity, Choke, Def Down, VIT Down
Earth: Slow, Petrify, Rasp, Acc Down, DEX Down
Thunder:Stun, Shock, MND Down
Water: Poison, Drown, STR Down, Atk Down, M. Def Down
Light: Dia, Repose, Finale, Charm, Lullaby, Sheep Song, MACC Down
Dark: Blind, Bio, Sleep, Dispel, Geist Wall, Drain, Curse, Doom, Zombie, M. Eva Down, HP Down, MP Down, CHR Down, Absorbs
(Note: This element list is also in the order of the elemental wheel, Fire->Ice->Wind->Earth->Thunder->Water. Meanwhile, Light/Dark are opposites/opposing elements)
Subsequent fetters apply a cumulative Stat Down effect. A few folks in this thread say say this effect is approximately -161 Stat Down is applied per fetter.

Elemental Wheel for visual learners:

My reason for posting is to convey that:

Standing in place, while fighting against fetters and then dying, is not a "low DPS" or even "healing" problem.
It appears to be a low DPS problem when the proper mitigating responses aren't taken by the party: i.e. proc element + move away from the fetter. (Be sure to move as a group, as spread-out fetters is very problematic for applying debuffs over a larger area and affects more members of the party).
Another optimization for folks: If you're trying to calibrate your party's DPS and determine which bosses to do next, consider switching from DHABC(GEF) to (GFE) instead. You can save time by skipping Botulus from F>E, which is much riskier to skip Botolus if you do E>F, instead.
Don't assume your party lacks DPS because a boss wasn't proc'ed properly. Be cognizant of the fetter's debuffs and your positional arrangement on the field.

This may be known to folks with 1 or more Stage 5 primes, and they may regularly plow through most fetters for D/H boss. However, it's not impossible to introduce enough TP feed, or produce a combination of fetters that renders even the strongest DDs into useless floor-mannequins. Anyway, thanks for coming to my Sortie TED Talk. :)

TLDR: Fetters have debuffs associated with them, not just damage. Move away as a group. Sometimes win, Sometimes lose. Pretty colors = Dead DD.

Edit: Thanks Velner for some confirmations. I applied your updates. However, I will leave the question open as to whether subsequent fetters produce additional debuffs from that same element. I currently don't know if say, 3 red/fire fetters produce 3 debuffs from the Fire category above. Of course, I'll keep monitoring, as well. Feel free to share your experiences.

Edit #2: The Stat Down effect applied by the elemental fetters have been updated to be correct. I showed below that there is supporting data to say that Aita prefers some sequences over others, compared to the statistical average. Some players advocate for an appropriate defensive action to counteract the fetters (like Geo-Fend or using panaceas and moving out of the fetter). Unfortunately others still seem to double-down and say, 'well a good WHM can just remove debuffs anyway', this doesn't mitigate the need to move out of the fetter or use panaceas, or ensure ensure that magic procs are still land (when Aita isn't doing a TP move), etc. etc.

Edit #3: This post has been updated to reflect all of the findings in this thread, as of 2026/05/07.

Bad Sortie Runs Are Bad, And So Can You!