Lehko Vs. Cornelia Vs. Ephramad

Fickblix FTW

I don't either, as long as you play actively and well.

Lol, while they still get the exact same WS Acc +100 on first hit as other WS's, they still miss one out of twenty times. You don't get to pick which one though so it's possible two whiff twice then hit the next thirty eight WS's. Savage has a second hit, that hit doesn't do much damage but at least it's not a zero.

You encourage the use of a simulator that isn't the game, and is, therefore, not reality.

Parses and simulators are nice. They can be very accurate, and most importantly, parses can show active play, you can extrapolate player choice from them.

But they are not infallible. They are not reality. They don't show everything and they miss out on actual gameplay all of the time.

The Sim is even worse. It is no substitute for actually playing the game, or how things will unfold there.

So you posted an opinion. Nothing more. In other threads you've asserted things like Caliburnus routinely out does Naegling. You aren't free from bias.

In no way are you just impartially course correcting anything.

You just don't like that you came to a decision and swapped rings, cemented now in your own beliefs. So you chose to post in a way that plays to the audience, since they also enjoy the Sim(not reality).

The fact remains that Ephramad's Ring has its place in TP sets as well as weaponskill sets. Cornelia's Ring only has a place in WS sets.

My argumentation may be flawed, but I am correct. Ephramad's is the superior overall choice. I even lead with saying I've always championed it, and you chose to throw barbs my way in a rather supercilious way, tbh.

In reality though, anyone's ring choice is ultimately unimportant. Better play, and play that understands the next best options will see you through gameplay more than any ring ever will. At the bottom of page three, Dodik opined in favor of Cornelia's, but then he also said, "Gear for what you do."

Some folks only play/prioritize their play as healers or hardline for mage jobs. They choose Medada or Gorebu. Some hardline for BST/pet jobs and choose Fickblix. I play physical DDs, and Ephramad gives them the most(just over half the jobs in the game, depending on your PoV).

Cornelia's is great, but its own exceptional area, an arena that Ephramad's can't touch, is most magical WSes. It is not bad. It's even my favorite color. I don't know who all has chosen it in the groups I play in, but whoever is, isn't running circles around me in the content we do, if we're on jobs with the same purpose.

You can't go wrong with either, truly, but you're right. I will always highlight the ring I believe is superior, just the same as you.

One of the hidden benefits of hoxne is making 1 hit ws go from full miss 1/20 to 1/400... assuming capped acc even without the extra 100.

I would love it if people would actually give examples and explain how it invalidates the results of the sim, or changes the optimal decision to make, instead of just making broad, general statements.


Again...what? Which part of "how things unfold there" changes the math behind which ring is better?


Ephramad is a terrible TP ring. It's BiS for accuracy, but there are a whole hell of a lot of better pieces to swap accuracy on than putting on a TP ring with 0 STP and 0 multi-attack. As discussed earlier, PDL is a TERRIBLE stat to focus on for your TP sets.


I see people make this argument all the time and while I agree with the premise, it's also extremely flawed. Better play > better rings, absolutely. However, it's a false dichotomy. You can play better AND have a better ring, and you shouldn't be comparing yourself to other people (who might suck at the game), you should be comparing yourself with the copy of yourself that has the other ring. It's a silly argument.


Don't understand what you're trying to imply here. Do you think anyone, regardless of which ring they promote, will "run circles around" other players if they pick the right ring? It's a marginal improvement either way. As mentioned earlier, because of the difference in execution between players it's not a very good strategy to compare two different human beings when trying to decide if one ring is better than the other. Again I think this argument is extremely flawed.

You're not wrong on this point; the sim is not perfect, it will have bugs and make mistakes. However, the sim (just like the spreadsheets that came before it) is a useful tool for people to make decisions pertaining to gear choices without having to spend an inordinate amount of time and effort running enough parses under every gear scenario to come to their conclusions. Suggesting that people use the simulator is an easy request that anyone can do given how user friendly it is, and saying "everyone needs to run their own extensive statistical analysis of in-game damage before they can pick a ring" is a bit heavier of a lift.

If you find that the results of your "reality" truly do conflict with the results that the sim provides, I'd encourage you to work with Izanami to improve the tool. The community as a whole will surely be grateful.

Look, I don't know what to tell you here. You are free to believe whatever you like, but I have a better understanding of my intent than you. I stand by what I've said, despite your disbelief. For instance, I believe that you only feel this way because I disagree with you and you don't like that, but I'm certainly able to admit I can be wrong.

I'm not sure what you think I "don't like", but I've swapped between these two rings multiple times as our static focused on differing types of content with different buffs available. My beliefs are cemented in my observed in-game differences in damage.

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I've said everything I came to say on the subject. My intent was to share important considerations regarding the rings for folks who are still in the process of choosing, and I've done just that. I apologize that this has devolved into basically an argument, but there are some in this community who view differences in opinion as personal attacks that must be defended against. It's unfortunate that many conversations in this forum that have the potential to help players inevitably end up this way, but here we are.

Agree here. Most jobs have close to a 80% weaponskill to 20% white damage ratio. Samurai and dancer have closer to a 90/10 split. Even the jobs that were traditionally white damage heavy in meta's prior are shifting towards a 70/30 ratio or even a 75/25 ratio. It's a byproduct of everyone spamming savage blades with tp bonus gear and 80+ WSD in their sets. My thief and monk are easily my two jobs that are biggest in white damage, but nothing is better than cento offhand for my thief so even that is shifting more toward weaponskill damage. Monk is the one job that still has a fairly big chunk of white damage, but monk wants to tp in gere and niqmaddu rings anyway.

Arguing that the PDL on ephramaud's is important for white damage in your tp sets is like arguing that lehko's ring is a good choice because 10% crit rate is a similar white damage boost. Lest I remind you that lehko's IS the tp ring, and it's also the choice this thread has pretty much universally dumped on. If lehko's is the least optimal choice with its 10 sTP and 10 crit rate then arguing that the 10 PDL on ephramaud's makes it a good TP ring is just faulty logic. Ephramaud's is a great weaponskill ring when the situation is appropriate, but it isn't the ring you normally WANT to be tping in.

Tbf it used to be, then they threw 1 handers a bone
Then h2h
Then ranged(under ss)
Pets somewhere in there, forget when they made the switch for them. Kind of odd 2 handers dont get anything at this point but oh well, time to miss fudo 5 times in a row and maybe buy a lottery ticket

I imagine Ephramad in a TP set only really works if either a) you have an Ukon WAR build or b) the devs introduce an enemy with an unremovable Amnesia aura.

I'd never switch out Niqmaddu, Chirich +1 or whatever else with decent TP stats for PDL in any other scenario. It just doesn't make sense. I respect that white damage would be increased, but overall you would WS less, so that extra white damage is pointless.

As someone who primarily favors playing dual wield jobs (and monk) I can attest that it's rare to miss on those jobs. There is a 1 in 100 chance to whiff a swing when you're acc capped on dual wielding jobs. I immediately notice when my impetus stacks reset or when my dancer botches a climactic ruthless because it almost never happens... it's rare. And when it happens twice in a short period of time it's also quite frustrating....

But not nearly as frustrating as swapping to a 2 handed job and watching the RNG go wonky and screw you over just because it can. I've whiffed the first swing of disaster 4 times out of 10, whiffed two (or maybe even three) straight sarvs in a row, or just outright whiffed disaster alltogether because RNG decided to be a *** that day. It's nothing new. We've all been there. There is always a chance to miss your weaponskills and no amount of accuracy boosting can ever change that. 2 handed and ranged jobs get the fun experience of having that chance be five times higher than the single wielders and monks out there. Isn't inequality great!

What about Fickblix's Ring though? Multi attack was always considered to be first priority for TP and your /SMN summons will deal 10% more damage on top of that!

The funny part is they are all going to argue about the rings longer than it would take to just switch your rings for free and try them.

Arguing the finer points of ringmaxxing on the forums is the true endgame experience :P

I unironically enjoy the back and forth though, it's like watching your big, weird, extended family fight at the dinner table. We (the community) might not always get along, but I'm glad everyone's here (^_^)

At the end of the day, I think we all benefit from the discourse, especially when there's disputes.

BTW @Jakey, I was showing off your BLM? Cataclysm screenshot recently, just noticed who I was responding to lol.

In a general sense, while you are gearing up, sure (if you're at a point where you truly have a lot of options).

Once you're up to the point where you're minmaxing exactly how much Store TP you need for the same effective rounds to ideal TP w/ SAM's roll in consideration... You will want to find ways to lean towards white damage, because it will become the difference once you're matching WS frequency and damage of other people(or rather, once your WS frequency is as high as it can actually go, given your job).

For example: If your build has reached 100% double attack and reaches ideal TP within 4~5 attack rounds, do you realistically expect 5 or 6 store tp to give you monolithic gains if you can get that without it? Store TP that does not change your attack round # is essentially wasted or minute.

PDL is an endgame stat intended for high end play. If you're considering white damage builds, you are either doing so for fun, or for squeezing out higher possible damage. It is entirely possible to lean into white damage without fully investing in it, without losing WS frequency or potency. Why wouldn't you want higher auto attack damage if there's no tangible downside?

Ephramad's as a TP piece isn't for every job either, it's true. There are multi-attack rings that are very potent, but not every job gets them nor wants the similar all jobs options necessarily due to other auxiliary effects.

However, your access to those rings is tied to your endgame progression, and they aren't rings that one just gets effortlessly. The main story for XI is more accessible than it's ever been, easier than it's ever been, and the fights for TVR see helpful souls helping newbies complete it before they're even out of Peacekeeper's sets. Therefore, the accuracy on Ephramad's makes it useful to those players in TP sets, for as long as they take to progress towards better overall gear. It is likely one such as yourself has forgotten, but tons of players struggle to make gil and obtain the HQ variants of accessories, which are generally exorbitantly overpriced, and also do not immediately solve gearing when purchased.

As Dexprozius brought up, too, Master Trials feature sets and situations where even high end players need Ephramad's for its accuracy in their TP sets.

Further still, and addressing Melliny about Lehko's, once PDL threshold is reached, PDL affects all physical hits. By comparison, crit rate is a dice roll enhancement, seeking to luck into a higher average. PDL, like accuracy, is a certainty once you breach the threshold.

I don't use anything that the game does not provide. I am 100% vanilla. No windower. No frills. No fuss (well lots of fuss). The only non-vanilla I benefit from is anything my party members are using that I cannot control(and I guess a cavalcade of wiki editors more than likely).

I have never used spreadsheets for FFXI. I have never used the sim, and I never will.

As for your intent, don't play coy. It was to rile me up. You're not slick. You've loaded your posts with barbs every time you've posted in this thread. That's fine, but turnabout is fair play.

And I've no interest in head butting you about BLU. Mine's serviceable, but no major beast. I was just pointing at a time where you had opinion counter to what people take for granted as an example of bias.

News to me that SAM WS don't scale damage with TP. Is this also true for Savage blade, black halo, judgment, torcleaver, origin, sarv, ruthless stroke, rudra's storm, dagda, fimbulvetr, etc? I guess all that extra TP you get once you reach your x-hit offers a minimal benefit then.


Nope, unless you can change the code of the game or you're hitting 99,999 with every ws on every target at 1k TP, this is absolutely impossible and is a good starting point for why the idea that white damage builds are good is, in fact, wrong.

You can do it for fun, IDC, but pretending it's better is a joke.

This is just not true. If having more tp when you ws meant nothing, Moonshade tp bonus would not be bis in every WS set for WS that scale with TP.

You want as much tp as you can get as fast as you can to do more dmg per WS. More storetp means more tp at WS which means moar dmg. Up to effective 3k.

"it only matters how many hits to 1k" implies you're wsing at 1k which will be less dmg in the long run because global cool down and most WS get a lot stronger above 2k.

Unless you're meme sword meme job with 1.5k tp worth of fencer bonuses and just want to get to 1k to spam your one macro.

It's really not always that straightforward. If the additional TP gained added 700 damage to your ws, that's a lesser gain than the additional double attack swing that hit for 1500. Now, how much of the former are you getting for the same slot compared to how much of the latter? That's where things get tricky to calculate.

Generally, having 1k TP a bit earlier is a good thing in both skillchain situations and WS spam situations - being able to do 6 WS in the time it used to take to get 5 WS is usually a gain, especially with heavy hitters. Do you get there faster with more MA or with more STP? Depends. Can you compensate having done 4 fewer WS during a 3min fight by making all the others WS hit harder? Likely not, but it depends on the fight.

TL;DR: it depends^TM

We've discussed this thing many times in multiple threads, I remember a very civil argument with Maletaru on the topic.

I think nobody is arguing against STP in TP set producing a pretty noticeable increase in DPS output when it brings your Xhit build up a tier. When a single +1STP is the difference between one hit more or less to reach 1000 TP, that 1STP is gonna create a massive DPS increase.
I don't think there's much to argue about that, as a matter of fact I doubt I've ever seen arguments about that specifically xD

It's more about the utility of STP when it does NOT grant you a level up in your xhit build.
Does it still matter? Well, for example in the same number of hits you end up at 1322 TP instead of 1001, so at least for WS that increase damage with TP (pretty much most of those that really matter) that STP will produce a slight increase in DPS output even without reducing the number of hits to reach 1000+.
But, as Lili emphasized, will that WSD avg increase be more than the damage you would've gained by using other stats instead of STP? Crit Damage, Crit Rate, Multiattack, DA damage, etc.

In theory it's a very valid question, so "it depends™" like Lili said.
In reality though, lack of options for specific slots and the fact that the White damage / WS damage ratio in FFXI is usually greatly skewed towards the latter, means that more often than not that additional STP will produce better results.
Always? Nope. It depends on the job, the slot we're talking of, the WS, blah blah. But if you pointed a gun at my head and forced me to pick something without telling me the job, the ws or the slot, I would personally place my bet on STP. It won't always win, but it's more likely/frequent that it will win over other options because of the reason I said above :p

I'm gonna address the bolded at the very end, As a general statement, true, though I think we should acknowledge that at a certain point, just stacking STP isn't always the best answer, and it comes at the cost of other stats.

I'd be surprised if we all didn't agree that Schere earring is objectively better than Dedition, even with 3 less STP. I think that's just one of many examples where you're simply not going to pass up the benefits of several lesser priority stat boosts because STP is generally higher priority.

Personally, I rank stat priorities like this: (Sans WAR 100% DA builds)

1. Accuracy
2. Haste
3. PDT/MDT
4. STP
5. MA
6. Crit Rate
7. Crit Dmg

I'm checking a lot of other boxes before I'm even worrying about STP, but when I do get there, if I run into a Schere/Dedition scenario, I think you have to look at your build en aggregate and decide if more STP is better for that slot than your other options.

Not that there's a ton of fights like this, but hot goth mommy Lilith keeps you amnesia'd and stuck at 1k TP a good portion of the fight. The extra STP isn't serving us there, but more MA, crit rate, and crit dmg absolutely would have.

Which brings us back to the topic at hand:

hmm after trying out some simulations, I can see that depending on the job and weapon used, Ephramad's Ring MIGHT beat Chirich Ring+1 for overall DPS on jobs with high enough white dmg and AM3 Empyrean Aftermath.

On Calad DRK with AM3 active wsing at 1k it seems like STP or Ephramad in the ring slot are almost equal or within 1-2% from each other (but that's due to the variance, since sometimes they show up as equal, sometimes one of the two will be 1% ahead)

Holding TP at 1800 to ws gave Ephramad PDL a slight 1-2% edge over 6STP (assuming you are atk capped and also buffed with SAM roll), and this is with Torcleaver being a good ws in the first place. If we look at that from an Ukon WAR or Redemption DRK perspective, should gain a bit more. (with torcleaver, the stp from ring vs pdl from ephramad still have higher value than quietus or ukko, as those tp will scale ws dmg further and thus help overall dps, same thing cannot be said about Ukko/Quietus)

It's still a minor and situational difference, so tbh i wouldn't go out of my way to optimize every possible scenario.. BUT you could have a toggle on few specific jobs like DRK or ukonWAR or masaSAM to switch your state.melee into your AM3 PDL/MA-tp set.


On every 1h job and even on prime 2h S5, i suspect STP is just better overall dps since going from 50% triple dmg autoatk to much less makes PDL weaker than the other case, with WAR being a possible exception since PDL on him will also multiply with DAdmg+, prime triple dmg procs and empy set bonus possibly..!


TLDR --- STP rings are generally better than Ephramad in TP set for overall max DPS, except for specific jobs/setups with high enough white dmg under am3. Is it worth it to include Ephramad into such tp sets? rarely..but in the right situation it would make sense to gain extra accuracy while retaining decent overall dps.

Nobody pays ur sub so do what you want! (except wearing ambu+2 or reisenjima gear in tp sets for relevant endgame content, PLZ STAHP, WSing 30ms faster won't outweight the dmg you'll lose by being para/slow or by using a medicine cause you dropped 2-300+ magic evasion..)