Lehko Vs. Cornelia Vs. Ephramad
Lehko vs. Cornelia vs. Ephramad
In limbus the red mage is usually busy hasting, buffing, curing, and fighting alongside the dd's, while the geo typically opens with dispelga, if there is a geo at all. Many groups run with a third dd instead of a geo. In my experience when the pulls get large a lot of the mobs die without getting dia'd; not because the mages aren't casting dia, but because it just takes too long for them to target everything before it dies. There is such a thing as too much PDL. We have PDL on the majority of JSE necks and earrings, aria, prime aftermath, and sroda ring and crep pebble. If you stack enough of it there does come a point where you're not always attack capped. Blindly assuming you always will be is a mistake.
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Asura.Melliny said: »
In limbus the red mage is usually busy hasting, buffing, curing, and fighting alongside the dd's, while the geo typically opens with dispelga, if there is a geo at all. A lot of groups run without one in favor of an extra DD. In my experience when the pulls get large a lot of the mobs die without getting dia'd; not because the mages aren't casting dia, but because it just takes too long for them to target everything before it gets killed.
There is such a thing as too much PDL. We have an abundance of sources of PDL, from the majority of JSE necks and earrings, to aria which is more common then ever, prime aftermath, and accessories like crepuscular pebble and sroda ring. If you stack enough of it there does come a point where you're NOT attack capped anymore.
There is such a thing as too much PDL. We have an abundance of sources of PDL, from the majority of JSE necks and earrings, to aria which is more common then ever, prime aftermath, and accessories like crepuscular pebble and sroda ring. If you stack enough of it there does come a point where you're NOT attack capped anymore.
Yes you can have too much PDL for a specific content event. Limbus is one of the "easier" places to abuse PDL but only if someone is willing to bring a GEO. With Geomancy there is a trick, run the debuff as the indi spell instead of the geo spell. Then when you use dispellga / sleepga it instantly tags every monster with a juicy -41.8% defense effect, the equivalent of +71.8% attack. I don't think anything in there has resistance to geomancy debuffs so can really abuse that frailty.
Dynamis D regular mobs also take full effect from geo debuffs, GEO's can use the same trick to become a walking defense down bubble. Sadly NM's take -75% reduction in effect so not as useful on them.
Wouldnt it juat be 14%? Thought +geomancy only applied to geo-bubbles.
May be bundling it with only geo spells can be ja boosted
May be bundling it with only geo spells can be ja boosted
Asura.Saevel said: »
Yes you can have too much PDL for a specific content event. Limbus is one of the "easier" places to abuse PDL but only if someone is willing to bring a GEO. With Geomancy there is a trick, run the debuff as the indi spell instead of the geo spell. Then when you use dispellga / sleepga it instantly tags every monster with a juicy -41.8% defense effect, the equivalent of +71.8% attack. I don't think anything in there has resistance to geomancy debuffs so can really abuse that frailty.
How is running with indi-frailty and casting sleepga/dispelga any different from:
A-Droping a bubble and tagging every mob with dispelga.
B-Cure the bard after they Lullaby everything.
???
Yes I'm aware that you have to drop the geo-frailty bubble, but this step is offset by his method requiring the geo-fury bubble to be dropped.
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Nariont said: »
Wouldnt it juat be 14%? Thought +geomancy only applied to geo-bubbles
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Nariont said: »
Wouldnt it juat be 14%? Thought +geomancy only applied to geo-bubbles.
May be bundling it with only geo spells can be ja boosted
May be bundling it with only geo spells can be ja boosted
Ehh ... no ....
+Geomancy applies to both Indi and Geo spells, it doesn't apply to entrust spells. BoG / EA only apply to the Loupon itself, meaning Geo spell. Of course if you are moving around like you do in Limbus those aren't that great.
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
It does not. Cornelia has wsacc+10. So, substantially less Acc than Ephramad's Acc+20/DEX+10
https://wiki.ffo.jp/html/39077.html
ウェポンスキルの命中+20
Unless thats a mistake
You can actually leverage the site to confirm this by going to the JP version:
https://jp.ffxiah.com/item/26227/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%8D%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AA%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0
ウェポンスキルの命中+20 ウェポンスキルのダメージ+10%
https://jp.ffxiah.com/item/26227/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%8D%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AA%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0
ウェポンスキルの命中+20 ウェポンスキルのダメージ+10%
Also
respectively
who gives a ***about WSACC??
Unless you're using a multihit WS, in which case you shouldnt be using Cornelia's anyways, the first hit of a WS has a +100 accuracy boost. I dont believe theres any gear that will require you to neuter your accuracy to pump up your STR/TPBonus/WSD/PDL to make WSACC matter.
For those who may be confused: I'm not saying accuracy isnt important, I'm saying if you're concerned about the WSACC on Cornelia's Ring, you're likely not hitting accuracy cap while TPing.
respectively
who gives a ***about WSACC??
Unless you're using a multihit WS, in which case you shouldnt be using Cornelia's anyways, the first hit of a WS has a +100 accuracy boost. I dont believe theres any gear that will require you to neuter your accuracy to pump up your STR/TPBonus/WSD/PDL to make WSACC matter.
For those who may be confused: I'm not saying accuracy isnt important, I'm saying if you're concerned about the WSACC on Cornelia's Ring, you're likely not hitting accuracy cap while TPing.
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Looks like just another case of our localization team doing its finest work. How you manage to get 10 out of 20 though is beyond me.
Oh wait, never mind. They must be using AI to do all the translation work now. That's how you get 10 from 20. (it's probably more likely than you think)
Quote:
No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?
Oh wait, never mind. They must be using AI to do all the translation work now. That's how you get 10 from 20. (it's probably more likely than you think)
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Nariont said: »
Wouldnt it juat be 14%? Thought +geomancy only applied to geo-bubbles.
May be bundling it with only geo spells can be ja boosted
May be bundling it with only geo spells can be ja boosted
Geomancy+ applies to Indi and Geo alike.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
How is running with indi-frailty and casting sleepga/dispelga any different from:
A-Droping a bubble and tagging every mob with dispelga.
B-Cure the bard after they Lullaby everything.
???
A-Droping a bubble and tagging every mob with dispelga.
B-Cure the bard after they Lullaby everything.
???
Between Frailty and Fury, the former is -by far- the most "powerful", in terms of what it grants to party.
Furthermore, if you have an indi-debuff bubble and tag a group (sleepga, dispelga, whatever it doesn't matter) then the debuff is applied instantly to the targets.
If you do it with a geo bubble first you have the additional time required by placing the bubble (ok, ~1 second?) and then you have to consider that geo debuffs are applied in "tics" cycles.
So once you placed the bubble and once you tagged them, the debuff will be applied 1-3 seconds later according to the next upcoming cycle of "tic".
Neither is a huge difference in themselves, alone, but paired together it's slightly more relevant?
Altough, as I said in the premise, I don't think it's a huge deal either way.
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Asura.Sechs said: »
If you do it with a geo bubble first you have the additional time required by placing the bubble (ok, ~1 second?) and then you have to consider that geo debuffs are applied in "tics" cycles.
It's about 4~5 seconds not 1, spells come with a 3s global cool down effect. Once you cast geo-whatever, you have to wait 3s before you can cast another spell to tag a group of monsters, or cure the bard who might be sleeping stuff. The more important aspect is that loupan's can't be moved once placed and monsters don't always place nice and stand in a perfect circular formation around a loupan. The Geomancer running indi-frailty can easily reposition themselves to catch everything in the defense debuff bubble while the geo-fury bubble is exactly where the geomancer wanted it since it is placed via <me>.
To make it even more fun, the Geomancer is going /BLM and using sleepga / sleepga II to "Tag" the monsters when they come in. Since indi-frailty is already up, this immediately tags them all with the defense debuff and acts as crowd control. It's one of those neat tricks for when your party is rapidly moving camp like in Rimbus or Dynamis-D.
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During instanced content these delays combined with the lag/delay that frequently seems to be multiple seconds it adds up enough that one can barely place their bubbles before most mobs are dead.
FFXI doesn't play well with roaming content, GEO plays even worse with roaming content. SE knew it which is why there was barely any roaming content before the introduction of GEO. Wonder if they view it as some sort of barancing to bombard us with roaming content now that GEO is a thing.
FFXI doesn't play well with roaming content, GEO plays even worse with roaming content. SE knew it which is why there was barely any roaming content before the introduction of GEO. Wonder if they view it as some sort of barancing to bombard us with roaming content now that GEO is a thing.
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Hence the two easiest macros for a GEO to use
/ma Indi-Frailty <me>
/ma Geo-Fury <me>
Don't have to worry about positioning a bubble, just position yourself. Pop circle when the team is unassing the camp and continue on.
/ma Indi-Frailty <me>
/ma Geo-Fury <me>
Don't have to worry about positioning a bubble, just position yourself. Pop circle when the team is unassing the camp and continue on.
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
It does not. Cornelia has wsacc+10. So, substantially less Acc than Ephramad's Acc+20/DEX+10.
Have posted this JP wiki link a dozen times by now - https://wiki.ffo.jp/html/39077.html .
Cornelia's ring has the wrong English description and is actually WSAcc+20 not 10.
It will never be fixed, because the JP description is correct.
Asura.Vyre said: »
Still less than Ephramad's in all situations.
How is 10acc + 10 dex, so 15 acc, more WS accuracy than WSAcc+20.
WSAcc is important for 2H jobs which drop a lot of melee accuracy in their WS sets. Drk and Sam mostly, War not so much. Also for cor which has lower native accuracy.
Asura.Melliny said: »
In limbus the red mage is usually busy hasting, buffing, curing, and fighting alongside the dd's, while the geo typically opens with dispelga, if there is a geo at all. Many groups run with a third dd instead of a geo. In my experience when the pulls get large a lot of the mobs die without getting dia'd; not because the mages aren't casting dia, but because it just takes too long for them to target everything before it dies. There is such a thing as too much PDL. We have PDL on the majority of JSE necks and earrings, aria, prime aftermath, and sroda ring and crep pebble. If you stack enough of it there does come a point where you're not always attack capped. Blindly assuming you always will be is a mistake.
But my experience with those that do go regularly is that they lower the level of the mobs to 128 or less to make climbs faster by giving the mobs less HP and stats. Sometimes just 119 to get the climbs for the week in.
Then they set up their bots to get units over night, where optimization only goes as far as, "How many yalms will we allow our characters to move. Make sure you set your bot to Dia every mob." etc.
On another note: Sroda Ring is terrible, and not an acceptable substitute for Ephramad's. The delta on accuracy between it and Ephramad's is -30 DEX, -42acc. -7 PDL. In party with actual people, also -15atk. Throw it away. Embrace Ephramad's.
Plenty of jobs don't have PDL necks or ears. RDM in particular starves for PDL sources. Pretty much any mage or tank job does, too.
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Dodik said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
It does not. Cornelia has wsacc+10. So, substantially less Acc than Ephramad's Acc+20/DEX+10.
Have posted this JP wiki link a dozen times by now - https://wiki.ffo.jp/html/39077.html .
Cornelia's ring has the wrong English description and is actually WSAcc+20 not 10.
It will never be fixed, because the JP description is correct.
Asura.Vyre said: »
Still less than Ephramad's in all situations.
How is 10acc + 10 dex, so 15 acc, more WS accuracy than WSAcc+20.
WSAcc is important for 2H jobs which drop a lot of melee accuracy in their WS sets. Drk and Sam mostly, War not so much. Also for cor which has lower native accuracy.
It's +27 total, thanks for playing.
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STR+10 DEX+10 AGI+10 Accuracy+20 Attack+20 Ranged Accuracy+20 Ranged Attack+20 Physical damage limit +10%
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Maybe if they'd just made wsacc work on all WS instead of just phys for whatever reason. Made the stat kind of redundant anytime it appeared
Asura.Sechs said: »
I don't think it's a huge difference either way, both systems are fine but I too find the way Saevel suggested more efficient for these reasons.
Between Frailty and Fury, the former is -by far- the most "powerful", in terms of what it grants to party.
Furthermore, if you have an indi-debuff bubble and tag a group (sleepga, dispelga, whatever it doesn't matter) then the debuff is applied instantly to the targets.
If you do it with a geo bubble first you have the additional time required by placing the bubble (ok, ~1 second?) and then you have to consider that geo debuffs are applied in "tics" cycles.
So once you placed the bubble and once you tagged them, the debuff will be applied 1-3 seconds later according to the next upcoming cycle of "tic".
Neither is a huge difference in themselves, alone, but paired together it's slightly more relevant?
Altough, as I said in the premise, I don't think it's a huge deal either way.
Between Frailty and Fury, the former is -by far- the most "powerful", in terms of what it grants to party.
Furthermore, if you have an indi-debuff bubble and tag a group (sleepga, dispelga, whatever it doesn't matter) then the debuff is applied instantly to the targets.
If you do it with a geo bubble first you have the additional time required by placing the bubble (ok, ~1 second?) and then you have to consider that geo debuffs are applied in "tics" cycles.
So once you placed the bubble and once you tagged them, the debuff will be applied 1-3 seconds later according to the next upcoming cycle of "tic".
Neither is a huge difference in themselves, alone, but paired together it's slightly more relevant?
Altough, as I said in the premise, I don't think it's a huge deal either way.
But, lets be real here, we all know why that is not an option to some people:
Why parse ~25% of the group (3 DD with BRD COR doing DPS) when you can parse ~40% (DD DD with BRD COR doing DPS) of the group? Why do 40k WS's when you can do 55k WS's and let your e-peen fly high? Who cares if its slower as a whole, your personal numbers look so much better.
Asura.Vyre said: »
But my experience with those that do go regularly is that they lower the level of the mobs to 128 or less to make climbs faster by giving the mobs less HP and stats. Sometimes just 119 to get the climbs for the week in.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Why do 40k WS's when you can do 55k WS's and let your e-peen fly high? Who cares if its slower as a whole, your personal numbers look so much better.
Touche fam. Nothing like burning all 4 of my Jumps, popping Fly High and riding the parse horse to victory (NGL Limbus is so damn boring, competing with the other DD is the ONLY thing that makes it fun).
Asura.Vyre said: »
Plenty of jobs don't have PDL necks or ears. RDM in particular starves for PDL sources. Pretty much any mage or tank job does, too.
BLU on the other hand has both, a -def debuff and +att buffs and they still didn't receive PDL on their JSE necks.
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Shichishito said: »
Asura.Vyre said: »
Plenty of jobs don't have PDL necks or ears. RDM in particular starves for PDL sources. Pretty much any mage or tank job does, too.
BLU on the other hand has both, a -def debuff and +att buffs and they still didn't receive PDL on their JSE necks.
When buffed by a party, a well geared RDM becomes a monster of a DD. If RDM had more PDL, you would regularly see RDMs out damage dedicated DDs. It's like one or two FFXI intern incidents away from just being God. Trust and believe that more PDL gear on it would pay dividends.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
I also find it strange that you claim Aria of Passion devalues Ephramad's Ring. I fail to see how?
Re-read the post then? Each % PDL means you need more and more attack to take advantage of it.
Re-read the post then? Each % PDL means you need more and more attack to take advantage of it.
No, not really. That's a conceptual misunderstanding. You don't just raw dog attack boosts in this game unless it's trash monsters that don't really benefit from hyper optimization.
You boost attack and lower enemy defense whenever possible.
Lowering enemy defense is prodigious with what it does for your pdif ratio needs. Take Saeval's example for instance. With even just 50% defense cut, if you then raise your attack with potent player buffs, you could stack all of the PDL in the game and still meet your ratio because it's not unusual for COR/BRD/GEO buffs to get just about any job to over 8000 attack.
Even if you had an enemy with 3000 Defense, if you lower its defense by at least 71% (down to 870) you can still reach attack values that let you stack all of the PDL in the game.
In the highest of high situations, you will floor enemy defense to 1, allowing any attack value to stack all of the PDL in the game. This is the least real of situations though, since typically Geomancy debuffs are nerfed. But even if you were to reduce it to say, 500, you'd still be able to stack all of the PDL in the game with the buffs we have now.
I'm not arguing that RDM is a weak DD but physical attack buffs aren't their native forte. Even if STR translates to ATT in a 1 for 1 ratio 55 ATT is a drop on a hot stone compared to the values mentioned above to cap it.
I'd also argue that most party compositions have access to Dia II. In reality it's usually 5% def down and +55 ATT (RDM) vs 20-25% def down and +20% ATT (BLU). Not to mention that BLU could drop /DRG for /WAR without losing dual wield to add Berserk and Warcry.
Maybe it's irrelevant for some end game content if you get super buffed but when the jobs native buffs have to do the heavy lifting then BLU would most likely benefit more from PDL than RDM.
I'd also argue that most party compositions have access to Dia II. In reality it's usually 5% def down and +55 ATT (RDM) vs 20-25% def down and +20% ATT (BLU). Not to mention that BLU could drop /DRG for /WAR without losing dual wield to add Berserk and Warcry.
Maybe it's irrelevant for some end game content if you get super buffed but when the jobs native buffs have to do the heavy lifting then BLU would most likely benefit more from PDL than RDM.
The point is situations where you have both time and need to stack as many debuffs on the thing can be counted on one hand.
Situations where you have some buffs and you kill really fast are more common.
Gear for what you do.
Situations where you have some buffs and you kill really fast are more common.
Gear for what you do.
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