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Limbus 2025
Limbus 2025
Dodik said: »
I'm aware. I was saying ranger needs "some" rapid shot in midshot to work with empy set bonus.
Idk the cutoff for crit rate/storetp being a bigger dmg increase than empy set bonus though I'm sure someone will math it out.
Idk the cutoff for crit rate/storetp being a bigger dmg increase than empy set bonus though I'm sure someone will math it out.
Um...there's never a point at which it makes sense to put rapid shot in your midshot set...
Please explain why you think anyone would ever wear any rapid shot in their midshot set.
Doesn't matter. How about them new armor have we decided what colour it is yet.
Dodik said: »
Rng is screwed out of new armor
RNG right now is absolutely overpowered and can easily top any parse easily against any other DD, to the point of it being impossible for absolutely any tank to hold hate against it. It does not need faster TP speed and it doesn't need higher DPS. Heck, I match parse while spamming Coronach against my friend that has a stage 5 Gae Buide, there's clearly something wrong with that.
SE has made many mistakes along the years when making new gear, but not giving RNG any new toy right now is not one - it's the same as when BLU was incredibly OP and it was left out of Omen gear, PLD was useless compared to RUN so RUN was left out of a few upgrades (notably being put on Agwu gear), etc. It's always been the way that SE rebalances jobs, by giving some jobs bigger boons than others.
Now, it is not perfect and thus you get NIN being forgotten and RDM being completely broken, but none of that means that RNG was "screwed", really.
Now, none of this means that you can't be sad because RNG didn't get anything new to play with, of course, so let's join all the SMN and NIN in the Pouting Room and share a muffin together.
[+]
Lili said: »
sad because RNG didn't get anything new to play with
QFT.
I'll take your word for it but that hasn't been my experience with Rng dps. To me it seems deliberately under powered compared to top tier dps jobs. Not a bad thing as such, it's a ranged job that can stay out of aoe range after all. Unlike a certain other "ranged" job that doesn't.
Lili said: »
So basically (LORETM!) the new qualifier is an inversion of the old one (Cowardice -> Bravery, Rage -> Mercy), and the jobs have been added there based somewhat off the job combos that we usually find on armor types...
For what it's worth, these virtues were mentioned in the ending of CoP. It just took them a quick 20 years to implement this into something gameplay related.
[+]
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Well, bug report submitted. Whether SE does anything about it is another matter. But... the attempt was made.
Not "unable to verify" or "working as intended" either
This isn't some esoteric arcane mystery like the 99k Mijins were.(Even to the very end, we didn't figure out part of the trigger conditions.) It's consistent, easily observable, and easily reproduced.
EDIT: I dunno, maybe I should have broken each factor into its own report? Pain in the *** though. SE makes reporting issues.. extremely annoying. And for all I know, these could all be aspect of the same issue. It's all related to physical damage.
It seems like they may have wanted to nerf pup but ***on actual pld at the same time.
The immediate response to these new nms are hard n stuff, would've just been stick a pup tank on it and it's impossible to lose.
The immediate response to these new nms are hard n stuff, would've just been stick a pup tank on it and it's impossible to lose.
The chance for empy bonus proc to happen is so low even with 5/5, that you would never build around it.
The new set is very good for RNG as both melee TP set and two pieces are good for white damage ranged build.
Anecdotal. It shouldn't be possible in normal scenario. Unless its with 25/25 Hover stacks.
RNG can match parse with DRG with Savage Naegling/Kraken though. At least when Warcry/Hoxne is not present, because Diarmuid is pretty meh at 1000TP, so DRG without Warcry from WAR needs to TP to 1700+ and Hoxne is Hoxne.
The new set is very good for RNG as both melee TP set and two pieces are good for white damage ranged build.
Lili said: »
Heck, I match parse while spamming Coronach against my friend that has a stage 5 Gae Buide, there's clearly something wrong with that.
Anecdotal. It shouldn't be possible in normal scenario. Unless its with 25/25 Hover stacks.
RNG can match parse with DRG with Savage Naegling/Kraken though. At least when Warcry/Hoxne is not present, because Diarmuid is pretty meh at 1000TP, so DRG without Warcry from WAR needs to TP to 1700+ and Hoxne is Hoxne.
Pups been "nerfed" for awhile just by virtue of enfeebs and having comparatively weaker hate gain to really any tank imo
PLD auto isn't good it's just zero effort and unkillable
So they made the NMs ignore DT so they can be killed. Real PLD eating ***with unintended action
Not hard to imagine them not thinking it through.
So they made the NMs ignore DT so they can be killed. Real PLD eating ***with unintended action
Not hard to imagine them not thinking it through.
Ultima Forerunner:
This took us 4 hours on Bahamut, with over 250 players there at the end. Omega took less than half that time for us. Prepare for a VERY long fight and to die multiple times in the process, this fight makes Omega look like a cakewalk.
-Uses all Ultima TP moves except for Citadel Siege. Dissipation was only used 3-4 times throughout the 4 hour fight, and might be % based. Gains Energy Screen and Mana Screen under 50%, and can't have both up at once.
-Auto attacks hit for around the same as Omega, but he CAN Double Attack.
-Conal elemental TP moves deal around 2500 unresisted. Auto attack -> conal TP move combo can 100-0 even tanks, shadow tanking is HEAVILY encouraged.
-Citadel Buster usually one-shots everyone in range without Scherzo or some form of light damage mitigation like Valiance, but it's only used once every 5-10 minutes.
-Equalizer's damage seems to be random, but it can do over 3k. Antimatter and Wire Cutter are negligible to a RUN/NIN or PLD/NIN, and Chemical Bomb can be erased easily. Armor Buster is fairly weak, but remove the Gravity effect as soon as possible!
-Nuclear Waste is by FAR the most dangerous TP move. Upon using this TP move, six Ultima's Zisurru (fetters) spawn on random players in the area. These fetters are like those from Aita or Gartell, except they have a 30' AoE range, attack through all terrain including walls, attack immediately on spawn, deal ~500 damage per hit, and their damage cannot be resisted. Ultima uses this roughly every 3-6% HP.
-The Fetters despawn about 30-60 seconds before Ultima uses Nuclear Waste again. Do not bother attacking them unless you have no other choice.
-Pretty much the only way to survive the fetter bomb is to pick a direction as a party and run the moment Nuclear Waste is used, stopping periodically for a WHM to cast Curaga V/IV on cooldown. If you're unprepared or affected by Gravity from Armor Buster, you're likely just dead. If you're solo...idk, go /THF for Flee and pray?
-The person with hate on Ultima at the time of Nuclear Waste is liable to getting smacked with a conal TP move while running, which is usually fatal when combined with fetters going off. Full Cure cureskin can save them, at the risk of everyone else dying thanks to the WHM being out of MP.
-Be very, very careful about pulling Ultima to the entrance, Fetter spawns can easily choke it off and prevent anyone from getting through. They will NOT despawn if Ultima goes idle! Keeping him on the North side of the area is probably best and is what we ended up doing.
TL;DR IDK bring shadow tanks and prepare to die to fetters a lot, I'm rather doubtful this fight will remain in its current state. Those fetters are unnecessarily brutal.
This took us 4 hours on Bahamut, with over 250 players there at the end. Omega took less than half that time for us. Prepare for a VERY long fight and to die multiple times in the process, this fight makes Omega look like a cakewalk.
-Uses all Ultima TP moves except for Citadel Siege. Dissipation was only used 3-4 times throughout the 4 hour fight, and might be % based. Gains Energy Screen and Mana Screen under 50%, and can't have both up at once.
-Auto attacks hit for around the same as Omega, but he CAN Double Attack.
-Conal elemental TP moves deal around 2500 unresisted. Auto attack -> conal TP move combo can 100-0 even tanks, shadow tanking is HEAVILY encouraged.
-Citadel Buster usually one-shots everyone in range without Scherzo or some form of light damage mitigation like Valiance, but it's only used once every 5-10 minutes.
-Equalizer's damage seems to be random, but it can do over 3k. Antimatter and Wire Cutter are negligible to a RUN/NIN or PLD/NIN, and Chemical Bomb can be erased easily. Armor Buster is fairly weak, but remove the Gravity effect as soon as possible!
-Nuclear Waste is by FAR the most dangerous TP move. Upon using this TP move, six Ultima's Zisurru (fetters) spawn on random players in the area. These fetters are like those from Aita or Gartell, except they have a 30' AoE range, attack through all terrain including walls, attack immediately on spawn, deal ~500 damage per hit, and their damage cannot be resisted. Ultima uses this roughly every 3-6% HP.
-The Fetters despawn about 30-60 seconds before Ultima uses Nuclear Waste again. Do not bother attacking them unless you have no other choice.
-Pretty much the only way to survive the fetter bomb is to pick a direction as a party and run the moment Nuclear Waste is used, stopping periodically for a WHM to cast Curaga V/IV on cooldown. If you're unprepared or affected by Gravity from Armor Buster, you're likely just dead. If you're solo...idk, go /THF for Flee and pray?
-The person with hate on Ultima at the time of Nuclear Waste is liable to getting smacked with a conal TP move while running, which is usually fatal when combined with fetters going off. Full Cure cureskin can save them, at the risk of everyone else dying thanks to the WHM being out of MP.
-Be very, very careful about pulling Ultima to the entrance, Fetter spawns can easily choke it off and prevent anyone from getting through. They will NOT despawn if Ultima goes idle! Keeping him on the North side of the area is probably best and is what we ended up doing.
TL;DR IDK bring shadow tanks and prepare to die to fetters a lot, I'm rather doubtful this fight will remain in its current state. Those fetters are unnecessarily brutal.
[+]
Last time I saw that much death in a single area was probably some early Mireu fights and before they changed spike flail in DI. Was also giving me some early Beseiged vibes. Tractoring and raising on WHM was fun.
[+]
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Well, bug report submitted. Whether SE does anything about it is another matter. But... the attempt was made.
Not "unable to verify" or "working as intended" either
This isn't some esoteric arcane mystery like the 99k Mijins were.(Even to the very end, we didn't figure out part of the trigger conditions.) It's consistent, easily observable, and easily reproduced.
EDIT: I dunno, maybe I should have broken each factor into its own report? Pain in the *** though. SE makes reporting issues.. extremely annoying. And for all I know, these could all be aspect of the same issue. It's all related to physical damage.
[+]
/NIN is back on the tank menu, 2007 here we goooo
Quote:
RNG right now is absolutely overpowered
In what world? Are we talking about a situation where other melees aren’t allowed to swing? Because in any content where melee are able to fight normally ranger just doesn’t keep up. It’s not a BAD dd, and it’s still gonna hold it’s own. But I have k club, I have piñaka, I have all the bells and whistles. I know what it can do. And there is no world where my ranger outperforms my warrior, monk, dancer.. w/e in a straight up melee fight. And shooting for tp is slower than meleeing, so the best scenario is when you CAN use your k club for tp. That means savage blade Spam, not sarv spam. And in that scenario it keeps up just fine. It’s on par with other dds but it’s not gonna pull ahead and be busted.
Ranger is perfectly fine. And of course in a ranged only fight it’s amazing. But there are only two fights where that’s the case: arrebati and naaks master trial. Anywhere else it’s a fine dd, but it’s far from the best, and absolutely is NOT “ overpowered”
[+]
Asura.Melliny said: »
In what world? Are we talking about a situation where other melees aren’t allowed to swing? Because in any content where melee are able to fight normally ranger just doesn’t keep up. It’s not a BAD dd, and it’s still gonna hold it’s own. But I have k club, I have piñata, I have all the bells and whistles. And there is no world where my ranger outperforms my warrior, monk, dancer.. w/e in a straight up melee fight. And shooting for tp is slower than meleeing, so the best scenario is when you CAN use your k club for tp.
Ranger is perfectly fine. And of course in a ranged only fight it’s amazing. But there are only two fights where that’s the case: arrebati and naaks master trial. Anywhere else it’s a fine dd, but it’s far from the best, and absolutely is NOT “ overpowered”
Ranger is perfectly fine. And of course in a ranged only fight it’s amazing. But there are only two fights where that’s the case: arrebati and naaks master trial. Anywhere else it’s a fine dd, but it’s far from the best, and absolutely is NOT “ overpowered”
I mean, Naegling/kclub Savage Blade RNG is definitely on par with most melee, outside of specific zergs using either SPs or warcry from WAR and/or Hoxne Ampulla. "1000" TP Savage on RNG is generally stronger than most "1000" TP WSs and without Hoxne, only SAM and maybe 2hit 100%DA build WAR EDIT: oh and DRG with Naegling/kclub have faster TP gain (all of them have lower WS damage at "1000" TP though). This is because of RNG's unique ability to have both Kclub offhand and 1000TP bonus from bow (normally other jobs need to choose between those, because their tp bonus is in subhand) and from 10STR,20%WSD arrow working for Savage.
Now RNG has no SPs adding anything to melee, TP bonus from WAR's Warcry is almost irrelevant with 1200-1450TP bonus and kclub tp overflow and hoxne can't really be used, because previously mentioned bow and arrow are 100% required, so whenever other melee jobs start taking advantage of warcry/hoxne/SPs, then RNG falls behind, but not before that (before that, it's even usually ahead).
[+]
I’m pretty sure he was talking about ranger shooting for tp versus meleeing, particularly since he mentioned Coronach. I agree that savage k club build is on par with other dds. I don’t think it’s ahead of some of the others with prime, but it’s in the same category. Purely shooting only ranger does fall behind very badly though, and if you don’t have a k club you don’t stand a chance of keeping up with other dds. You need that 999 million Gil item to hold up against the field on ranger. So in that light no… it’s absolutely not broken.
Kasaioni said: »
Last time I saw that much death in a single area was probably some early Mireu fights and before they changed spike flail in DI. Was also giving me some early Beseiged vibes. Tractoring and raising on WHM was fun.
Is there a personal reward for killing ultima and omega or is it just the server wide bonus for the box upgrades.
Asura.Melliny said: »
Is there a personal reward for killing ultima and omega or is it just the server wide bonus for the box upgrades.
Just server wide afaik. I was there for both on bahamut and got nothing and didn't hear of anyone else getting anything.
Asura.Melliny said: »
I’m pretty sure he was talking about ranger shooting for tp versus meleeing, particularly since he mentioned Coronach. I agree that savage k club build is on par with other dds. I don’t think it’s ahead of some of the others with prime, but it’s in the same category. Purely shooting only ranger does fall behind very badly though, and if you don’t have a k club you don’t stand a chance of keeping up with other dds. You need that 999 million Gil item to hold up against the field on ranger. So in that light no… it’s absolutely not broken.
Not sure if that's uplifting for some or not, but I simed that new set for RNG with Crepuscular offhand and it was only 5% behind KC offhand, while having no problem with subhand accuracy (in fact having massive accuracy advantage). So if you decide to put work and gils into this set, you pretty much wont need KC for Savage build anymore.
[+]
The strategy that seemed to work well for us during Ultima yesterday:
I lost ~600k exemplar points during this fight, but it was a lot of fun. Thanks to all of the support, BRDs, WHMs, SCHs, Tanks (Shiraj!) that made this possible. We killed it in ~2h 18 minutes. I expect it to go down in half that time next month. (This pops mnthly, right? ...I have no idea).
Sub-NIN Tank(s) hold Ultima in a corner of the zone (NW/NE/SE/SW).
Ever X% of Health or X Minutes, Ultima will use Nuclear Waste followed by a string of fetters that are 30-yalm radius each. This is when everyone runs to the next corner of the zone. The fetters are huge and go through walls. People will die.
Thankfully, Ultima doesn't regen when unclaimed.
Scherzo (or at least Titan's Ward BP) is a must-have.
If Ultima's barrier is on, DPS will be slow/non-existent. We don't know how to break this barrier yet.
RNG, COR and SMNs are safest DDs, from a distance, most observed when the barrier is down.
Coronach for Enmity- was observed to be helpful, so was full-throttle RNG and SMN/Ifrit Bloodpacts.
Multiple tanks may be in play, but there will be lots of casualties. Sometimes, homepointing and coming back will be faster than waiting for a Raise.
Due to the size of the fetters, you may accept a raise and die immediately.
The goal is to take Ultima from corner to corner of the zone and when fetters appear, run as fast you as you can to the next corner.
I lost ~600k exemplar points during this fight, but it was a lot of fun. Thanks to all of the support, BRDs, WHMs, SCHs, Tanks (Shiraj!) that made this possible. We killed it in ~2h 18 minutes. I expect it to go down in half that time next month. (This pops mnthly, right? ...I have no idea).
Felgarr said: »
I lost ~600k exemplar points during this fight, but it was a lot of fun.
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