Ongo V20 Help

Did a v20 run last night. With Gambit and Rayke, my MBs were only 50k and without between 15-25k. Used Grape +1 on 1st and on 2nd used a Crepe. What do I need to change? Led off with ES Burn. MB Stoneja, then MB Impact > Stone 5 > 6 > 4 as filler, repeat.
BLM ML50

What were your buffs? Sandstorm II, Indi-INT, entrust Acumen, GEO-Malaise, double Etudes? Was this during EA/BOG/Bubbles? The good damage spikes come from syncing your nukes during the ideal time.

Quick glance at gear, you're likely getting nothing out of Orpheus's Sash due to the distance. Would swap to a Sacro Belt or R15 Acuity Belt +1. I use Agwu's Hands/Feet, but depends if yours is ranked. R15 Metamorph +1 is what I use over Mujin Band, but it might not be that big of a difference.

Realistically, I don't think your gear is bad really, and I don't necessarily think your nuke damage is remarkably low. The key is consistent flow of damage and hitting as hard as possible during Rayke/Subtle Sorcery/Bolster

Waist will be changing to Obi because of weather, hopefully automatically in your lua, otherwise make sure that's being put into your set.

We use ES on Impact (to make it last longer) and then just ignore Burn most of the time. Note: Burn will land with SS up since it adds so much macc, make sure to do it (while MB window is closed) during Subtle.

In addition to what Buukki said, was SV Threnody II on? Should help very dramatically with resists, if any, that you see.

I also don't think those burst numbers are really out-of-ordinary, they're pretty decent. Seems like they need to make more SC, longer SC, the SCH needs to have a solid helix on, or there's some other factor missing here.

Most important part about Ongo fight at any vengeance is making sure to make lots of SC, make long SC, and make liberal use of Rayke, Gambit, use RD to get back Rayke/Gambit, Manafont/SS, WC to get all that ***back, then another RD. Those JA are KEY to keeping up consistently good damage for minutes at a time.

Also make sure that those JA are all DOWN before you do anything else (buffing, running in for resets, etc.) because you want to make full use of their windows.

Agreed. The difference maker is going to be buffs / debuffs. Make sure you're maximizing your Rayke windows as well. Ensuring your getting as much dmg out while Rayke is up is essential to clearing as efficiently as possible. Your gear is fine. It's going to come down to execution. Take advantage of Gambit / Rayke & extend SCs. Resetting Gambit / Rayke with RD / WC. Your RUN should avoid using any JAs other than Gambit / Rayke so they can be reset by COR.

just to back up pretty much everything Buukki says and compact it into one thought: modern Endgame is shaping up to be more INT-focused, whereas Escha-era was very Macc-leaning, and prior to that MAB was the hard stat to get enough of. So when in doubt in terms of gear choices nowadays, it's often best to default to the choice with better INT.

Another harsh fact for some groups to face on v20+ Ongo is that everyone is going to have to carry their weight. Your GEO and SCH, or whatever mix of 2 other bursters your setup has, are going to need to be able to consistently deal damage of high value, too. With the insane Regens seen on the higher vengeance Ongos, a single BLM isn't going to do enough even if ML50 and perfectly geared.

I don't know why my brain melted and forgot about Obi, this is the better waist slot option.

Even though you didn't post it, make sure your fast cast is at 80% without a sub job. Being able to get in as many nukes as possible makes a big difference as well. I personally don't use any instant cast gear for this fight. I did use Impact a few times, but even with ES it doesn't last long so I didn't think it's effects were worth the MP consumption. Utilize all your JA's when you can. After 75% when you get a big Rayke in, go all out. Use Manafont, just hit those MBs try to get 2-3 depending on what tiers are in the volley. Then when all is said and done, hope you get your SP abilities back with WC.

Only other upgrade advice I can give is BLM mythic and focus on Agwu's Gages augmenting first, then Agwu's Pigaches. The Magic Burst Damage + I believe will carry you farther than just MAB.

The big part over all is all luck. As someone said above as well, everyone has to carry their weight on these fights. Which negative aura you get, does you COR get that 6 WC along with getting his WC back, etc.

I know friends that over a year ago were 7+ months on trying to take down V25 T-Rex and their gear for those fights were capped on current augments at the time. SE made this contents life span have longevity by shear RNG.

@all, ya my obi autoswaps d/t sch storm

ES+Manawell Impact outside of the burst windows. RD and WC should reset the JAs so you can have the INT down nearly full time. Can sneak an Impact during Subtle Sorcery if needed. You don't want to waste any part of the rayke/gambit windows with non-earth bursts.

Some things to consider for your team:
Are you continuously doing 4 step SCs?
rayke/gambit getting reset every RD/WC, or is the RUN doing too much before RD?
Does the SCH maintain 10k helix and bursting respectable numbers?
Is the COR using empyrean feet on earth shot and timing before your biggest nukes?

Make sure you have all your buffs sorted and everyone is ready to get them out asap when the timer starts so you can engage with as much time as possible. The time for that fight can be tight without people who have already beat it.

Also is it Marin staff or Bunzi rod for BLM? I don't remember what our BLM was using.

It's also important that your secondary nukers are not just throwing out magic bursts wildly outside of the rayke window and cockblocking the big blm bursts. They need to be smart with their burst timing, if at all outside of rayke windows. If you as the BLM is being walled, that is a massive issue and your group has to coordinate their burst timing better.

Stacking blm ja is critical as well. Multistep sc's, earth shots timed appropriately, 10k helix maintained or damn close to. There are many factors that bring down Ongo with a decent amount of time left.

I have done v20 with and without a cor, but time can be extremely tight without the resets you get from cor. On the flip side, it does simplify the fight imo replacing the cor with a thf if your blm is on point as without the resets your blm will be doing all the heavy lifting.

Sorry, been working a lot and we haven't had a chance to attempt this again.

At what RP are Agwu hands and feet better?
Does Ea +1 work into the sets anywhere for the MBII? I know I have the Ea Hat +1.

Also, my rotation has been Burn > Impact > Stoneja > MB Stone VI, V, 4

IMO, Burn and Impact should be cast outside of the MB window. They're unlikely to hit/be unresisted without ES or Subtle, so only cast them if there's nothing better to be doing (Myrkr).

On the note of Myrkr: make sure you're not casting all your nukes in AF body (because your MP is getting low and you're doing it manually, or your lua is automatically doing it past a certain MP%) because it will gimp your damage fairly significantly. To avoid this, I would make liberal use of Myrkr every chance I got and have a very very strong Myrkr set.

For MBs, we did (precast) Stone VI, Stoneja, Stone V, Stone VI. If the window goes longer (Gravit -> Dark -> Dark) and you have extra time, Quake II and Stonega III are stronger than Stone IV.

Not sure about the Agwu answer/Ea, but you can test them on any mob if you can have trusts make/close a SC for you, or if you have a friend/alt to make SCs for you. INT values might make this test a bit off, but it should be pretty apparent which is better in most cases, IMO.

As far as gear goes, it's important to make sure you have made decent choices in each slot, but the difference between winning and losing Ongo fights is in the execution of the SC/MB and use of JAs, not in the gear selections you make 99.95% of the time.

What was the party setup?
These fights don't have much flexibility in V20 / V25

BLM/BRD/COR/GEO/RUN/SCH > V20

Could also use 2 KI
Starting the fight at 75% HP
Makes it easier

I just noticed this. I swapped to Quanpur Necklace for this fight. I vaguely remember someone asking about this a while ago and it was said that Quanpur should win out for stone nukes, but by a minor amount. I also have the +1 stole, so it was an easy decision, but unsure if the same applies if you have +2 neck. In your case, doesn't seem to be a consideration.

So, I didn't see it mentioned here, but bunzi rod/ammurapi shield will be the superior bursting main/sub for this. What you're using caps at 32 int, 68 mab, and 55 mag acc,(the wind mab is meaningless when casting stone), bunzi/ammurapi even at r0 has 28 int, 73 mab and 78 mag acc, with an additional 30 mab and 15 mag acc with RP. having the additional 10 MBB also frees up other slots if needed. also make sure you have earth MAB merits (didn't see you speak on that detail)

What I would suggest you do is check what your int value is when bursting. you'll need at least 425 to match his int value and allow yourself to even see an unresisted spell. As it stands, he only takes 30% earth damage, so it's a low bar. I've been told people have hit capped 99999 on him, but I've never personally seen it. for me personally, when all the stars align, I've seen into the 70's, but outside of those windows, it's usually in the 25-35k range. I'll try to link my magic burst gear in this comment, new to adding that

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/391211

for context, I do have bunzi rod at level 25 and agwu hands at 25, there is a point where the agwu gear out paces wicce gear for hands, legs and feet, but you'll have to play with those numbers for yourself.

Bunzi/Ammurapi is nice except not being able to Myrkr will really hurt your MP unless you have very significant ballad support and even then I don't think you have any chance of keeping MP up if SC are going off regularly. Staff can also do Vidohunir to reduce his MDB.

If you nuke in AF body then the gains from wearing bunzi rod are completely eliminated and then some.

I've been using staff for Myrkr. Unless the dmg output outways the MP you get from it?

You either have enough mp to nuke and not run OOMP or you don't. If it's sustainable then it's better, or it's not sustainable and you run OOMP and can't nuke/have to use AF body.

I don't think if you're doing Ongo V20 right, you can maintain your MP while using Bunzi, but I haven't done a whole fight with it to see. I think one of my teammates tried it once or twice and it didn't work, but it was a long time ago.

so with the group I did ongo 20 with, we did have ballad X2, march, and int X2, soul voiced so it was more than sufficient paired with my +15 idle refresh between casting. using manawell for impact, and manafont when mp got too low. I do believe we did get a 5 or 6 for WC so that does dramatically help too. We also have a policy that all non mages carry vile elixers just in cast in bizarre for those fights just in case. We typically got Tp before entering to vido as well.

I'm not suggesting there aren't opportunities for fine tuning or that nothing can go wrong, but we found packing the most damage into each nuke to be the more effective strat for that fight. The geo can also always entrust refresh in a pinch if you're really struggling with mp, but I do know that I 'm well over the int threshold, so the indi int, while nice, wasn't critical.

to answer your question Antonio, bunzi combo for me is an extra 7% mab for me, so I'm getting roughly 14 nukes for the cost of 15 when comparing to marin. Is it game breaking, no, but in a fight where you're needing to squeeze out every damage point, faster, more efficient damage is better.

If you find that a staff ends up being the better fit for you, I 'd suggest investing in the mpaca staff

You could get the GEO to Entrust-Refresh > BLM

Viles could solve the problem. Entrusting refresh has the same problem, you're sacrificing entrust malaise and losing the benefit of using a club by using refresh instead of malaise.

Mbb is quite trivial to cap without club: neck 10, legs 15, hands 9, ambu cape 5 is already 39, plus anything from head, body or feet and you're well over cap. Even if you don't get any from head, body, or feet (somehow) you're only going to get 1% MBD from the club. This will vary based on the set you use for MB, but I think those pieces are pretty bog standard for high end BLM MB

I don't think quanpur is worth using. Raw damage might be a bit higher but you lose a ton of macc and in my tests it was barely ahead or even slightly behind.

Here were my tests for Laevateinn, Marin, and Bunzi/Ammurapi (%s are for Laevateinn AM2). Bunzi rod was R25 for these tests IIRC:


So you're looking at a few % damage increase going from Marin to Bunzi. This will be swallowed by any change in your strategy (AF body, Indi-Refresh, Entrust Indi-Refresh, losing Vidohunir, all of the above) IMO. I think it can out-perform staff, but only if you have enough MP to sustain all the nukes you do for the entire fight without changing anything about your strategy that would impact your nuke damage. Using viles would be a fine substitute, but swapping bubbles wouldn't (IMO)

Was on SCH for Ongo
But think the GEO did

Geo-Malaise + Indi-INT
Entrust-Refresh > BLM

For us, when we were using GEO in Ongo main fight we used GEO-INT, Indi-Acumen, entrust Indi-Malaise (on RUN)

You missed the Unity Ranking INT on Marin? It has 47 INT with Enki strap, not 32. 65 macc, not 55 macc.

Bunzi Rod(25)+Ammurapi shield
Int+28
Macc+88
Mab+98
Macc Skill +255

Bunzi Rod(0)+Ammurapi shield
Int+28
Macc+78
Mab+73
Macc Skill +255

Marin Staff+1/Enki Strap
Int+47
Macc+65
mab 68
Macc skill +228

Laevateinn (with AM2)/Enki strap:
int+10
macc 70
MAB 120
Macc skill 269

Mpaca's (25)/Enki strap:
int+28
macc+60
mab 60
macc skill 255
MBD II + 2

yes, sorry, my mistake, was scrolling fast earlier

In my experience, the group synchronization is a ton lot more important than the staff/club (mythic is a clear winner btw but not having it isn’t attempt killing). Have won the fight with both. The ability to down it to 75 in 1 long SC, appropriate QD, an GEO that knows GEO and when to buff, and so forth, is the first piece of the puzzle as you’ll have to do it 3 more time perfectly executed. For training you can do ongo and enjoy the RP or practice on sortie and enjoy muffins.

GL

SC frequency is a challenge for some scholars to manage with other things going on if they aren't comfortable yet with the job.

If that's a potential issue, you could explore RUN,SCH,BLM,GEO,BRD,THF for v20. It can be done and does potentially simplify the fight from the SCH perspective.

I believe our strat was blm, geo, sch, run, cor, brd, and the brd called the shots since they had the least going on during the actual fight, but the cor and run extended the skillchains, and could also skillchain if the sch was out of strats, but given random deals, tabula and general cooldowns with the double extensions, it wasn't really a problem.

I'm guessing the thf would just spam rudras to fill in for the sch when their strats are down?

I'm sorry but no. You should never cut the corsair out of this fight and replace it with a thief. You're losing far more than just wizard's and warlocs roll. You NEED those job ability resets. If you aren't using random deal, wild card, and random deal to reset rayke and gambit you aren't winning, or at the very least you're lowering your odds of winning far more than you're likely to help them. You lose out on the potential to reset bolster and subtle sorcery and go a second round on your most powerful burst window. You lose out on the samurai and tactician's roll on the rune which can enable them to do skillchains. Also the corsair should be using earth shot with +3 empyrean feet before the big 4th step of the skillchain to maximize the stone VI damage.

You run with Run, Cor, Brd, Blm, Sch, Geo on V20 and 25. Swapping any of those out is just making life harder or even making the fight unwinnable.

Also Ongo frequently casts static prison which dispels multiple buffs. If the thief keeps losing their haste and shell they're not going to be skillchaining and they're eventually gonna die or become too much of a healing burden for the scholar. You don't want that. Do the fight with a cor and simply get better.