How’d You Bring Naegling Back In Line?

You folks who got a handle on the numbers…

How would you nerf Savage Blade or Naegling without messin' things up too much?

Here’s what I’d go with:

Stat Modifier: Drop Savage Blade to 30% STR, 30% MND. Keep that fTP the same, leave Naegling as is. At the same time, I’d pull back the power on Impulse Drive for Shining One, take it down from 40% to 30%.

My reason? Simple. I wanna see the game go back to what it was in 2019, when jobs were stickin' with their own weapons. Sure, back then SAM was a bit overpowered, but I’d take that over this Naegling situation any day. At least back then, a good DRK, WAR, or DRG could hang with a Masa-SAM’s damage.

Right now? In spots where those original weapons should be comin' out on top—multi-step Skillchains and all that—they’re just not as common. Almost everything’s about tryin' to one-shot things like Segment-C or those lesser formors in Dynamis W1, W2, W3.

So, what would you do to bring jobs back to their roots? ‘Cause man, it’s somethin’ else seein’ a DRG/DNC runnin’ around with a sword.

I'd rather buffs skills like axe and katana than nerf Naegling. Give the weaker weapon classes a reason not to use it.

Problem isn’t naegling or nerfing, that’s a cheap fix. Problem is the other weapons just like problem was never SMN nerfing where now they can’t even use Apogee on many content and as a result no one play SMN anymore. WS wall was a wonderful answer to your “SB” issue. Prime is the other answer. And now all the content where everyone can SB is old content, no new content allow for 4-5 peeps savage blading all day long. Imo problem fixed

Prime weapons are how you bring naegling in line. It gave all jobs atleast a comparable option (even if it dosent surpass it) or a superior option (drg, debatable was). They won't nerf naegling

Nerfing the WS when it’s the weapon that made it the problem is backasswards.

I'd rather see boosts to other WS that never get used over nerfing something that is.

Yeah man, it's called fun. The supports can do damage, the DDs can do more damage. If the content is designed in such a way that you need to kill trash asap and slashing does full damage to most of the mobs, then give almost everyone a crappy weapon that does slashing with a huge attack boost. Now everyone can be end game ready with minimal effort.

Take THF+DRG off it to start.

Not so bothered about RDM BLU COR having it.

Would rather they boosted a/all Gaxe WS than remove WAR from it though.

This is where they *** up and should rebalance it so you need to take a mnk, a polearm drg, and only 1 drk/sam/war to runs!

Like said, its mainly bringing other weapon skills up, primarily in the 1 hander category such as axe, or katana, and then reducing the atk bonus on naegling as that's where a lot of its power comes from presumably.
But just bringing other WS up would reduce naegling use while not gimping the WS itself, which hurts any native SB user in the process.

But id sooner see them nerf magian OH/ranged TP bonus before naegling, but both of those are long gone.

I would sooner just have the attack+ based on number of buffs removed. Thats a ridiculous attribute to have that gives all jobs who use Naegling an indirect form of Berserk/Last resort with no penalty. This makes having a sub job without an attack+ job ability like berserk or last resort irrelevant unfortunately, and those that do have it just see an even further boost. It's a broken stat on an already powerful weapon skill.

Put BLM on the weapon, now you've brought it to the back line.

Thats about as good as you can hope for

At this point, they should just make it all jobs ngl lol.

But I want to savage blade on Geo when I do bumba. :(

Working a year (or more) for a Prime, end-of-game holy crap the insanity, to "compare" to an easily gotten sword is just obscene.

Don't nerf naegling, that'd be silly. Fix the rest.

r25 REMA honestly seems the most obvious answer, but to make it make sense you need to also re-align damage, defense numbers to adjust for caps.

What I mean is, the adjustment result should be instead of my brd doing 45k savage blades for 0.22% of the mobs health, it should do 13k savage blades for.....0.22% of the mobs health. Otherwise those r25 Vajra's WS's will hit the same 99k that my r15 does now.

Agreed that naegling doesn't need nerfing, everything else needs buffing.

The primes are good for "better than naegling" weapons, the issue is they are behind a 6 month to a year wall that few teams, and you need a team it's not solo-able, can even do.

Eventually I imagine a method to get mesos other than Aminon will be introduced. Until then.. good luck.

Non sword jobs (you know what I mean) using Naegling because its the strongest ws by a country mile is all the reason to show that other weapons/ws’s need the boost.

Honestly, I think they should buff every other weaponskill to Savage Blade levels.

Yes, I know that Naegling is providing the insane boost to it, but honestly, reworked TP version/stat mod of Savage Blade is still absolutely bananas. It has the same fTP as Steel Cyclone at 300% at 100%. And it's multi-hit, which means with just a little multi-attack, it gets to be further bananas, because you can stack Savage Blade to hit the 8 hits cap.

I think they should boost every varies by TP WS that's WSNM or REMA up to the same fTP values as Savage Blade.

Give me 14.0 fTP Steel Cyclone at 300% damn it! And 4.0 at 100%.

I also think they should buff merited WSes and rework some of the stat mods on them, too. Resolution in particular needs to be brought back to its former glory.

Every relic and mythic WS should also get hella boosted. Some Empyrean WS should get boosts.

In lieu of that, they could at least boost the effects on the other Ambuscade weapons such that they are competitive with Naegling's buff. Like, idk, make Lycurgos's TP bonus just = current HP. Nandaka should ignore 3% defense per debuff or something. Karambit could be STore TP +150 on crits.

Make Ullr PLD supreme by increasing Ullr's effect on RATK from 4% to 44% (And make it apply to RATK not just RACC)

Give us our variety back and let us off the chain! Increase the damage cap from 99999 to 999999

Multi hits on both add very little, its just the front loaded ftp, which isnt unique to savage, many 1 handers have high ftp that scales heavily because their base dmg is much lower than a 2 hander and theyd (originally) take longer to hit the higher tp benchmarks

Then comes in TP Bonus +1000 magian weapons, and that whole hitting benchmarks is cake so long as you can cover the acc

Naegling shines because of the attack scaling, multiplied by the ftp scaling of the weaponskill, multiplied by the weapon's enhancement. That's a lot to have on a weapon. Bring the weapon's individual bonus down to 25% and it will help, but...

Augments need to be made, especially to Relic/Empyrean/Mythic weaponskills to bring those up to viable. If those were more useful across the board, the variation in skillchain properties would open a lot more and move us out of the "fragmentation spam" era

It doesn't take a year to make a stage 4... Primes are SE solution to bring naegling in line and give us something to chace in maintenance mode. To think they will do anything to naegling is silly. As much as I'd like for remas to be buffed, it Int happening.

You dont have to buff remas, but your solution to Naegling being OP is "get a prime weapon lulz" is *** stupid. And I'm actually saying that respectfully.

Yes, its a sum of a few parts to really make it OP, but when RDM THF DRK BST BRD RNG NIN DRG BLU COR RUN (I left out war and pld) are all resorting to Naegling Savage as their best DPS choice, thats a problem.

Agreed - buff don't nerf

You understand that if you buff weapons, you have effectively nerfed content. A buff is always a nerf and a nerf is also a buff.

And if you buff enough to bypass naegling, all youve done is further trivialize content.

Anyone whos been around FFXI long enough knows what a Naegling nerf means:
Stat mod reduced to 25/25 from 50/50
fTP scaling: 1.0, 4.0, 6.0
No longer front loaded 2-hit WS

Naegling:
Savage Blade damage +5%
Weapon Skill: Attack Bonus based on the number of upgrades (cap: 3)


Theres never been a proper balancing nerf. Its a big ol "*** you for making us change this", it always has been, it always will be. Find one nerf that was not a heavy handed "*** you"?

Geo nerf: 95% penalty to debuff bubbles aka *** you
BP nerf: 10 second BP wall aka *** you (this literally breaks astral conduit)
Modus Veritas: 95% resist rate on NM's, helix cap of 10k/tock, aka *** you
Multi-hit TP return nerf (i'm goin way back for this one) aka *** you drgs
RNG nerf literally broke ranger for the longest time until SE threw them a bone, aka *** you.

I think this might be a better solution than OP's. Because Naegling has brought a higher degree of enjoyment to support classes, namely bard and corsair, so any significant nerf to it is a nerf to them. Although in fairness you could make the argument that they need it, especially in light of geomancer nerfs, but you don't want to discourage players from any of these jobs.

There's no good reason why BST and NIN should be stuck using boring *** Naegling. Mistral Axe and Blade: Ten should be get buffed.

Deci or Ruinator need to be changed in some way, dmg mod or crit based, or even attack boost, literally anything. Having both physical endgame WS's having acc mod is stupid. No Blitz doesnt count. "Just get a prime weapon lulz" is not a solution.

Really depends on the target and goals...

RDM uses Maxentius quite a bit and barring blunt/slashing weakness, I'd say they're equivalent, in my experience. BH absolutely destroys in Sortie
THF is a trash job
DRK using Naegling is a meme, it's not their strongest weapon by a country mile and the only time a DRK should use one is when they have to for SC reasons
BST I've never seen using a Naegling, but I also don't hang out with BSTs. I'm sure when they're with their pets by themselves, they prefer to use Axe and make 4-steps with their pets. So I've heard.
BRD uses Naegling quite a bit, especially when they can dual-wield, but there are plenty of situations where Twashtar, Mpu, and Carn do significantly better damage.
RNG only uses Naegling when they can't shoot, in which case you probably shouldn't be on RNG.
NIN can use Blade: Ten which is pretty close to Savage and can get extra TP bonus on MH. I've found Blade: Ten with Heishi/TP bonus quite comparable to Naegling but with faster TP gain. Plus they have hybrids
DRG has a billion stronger options than Naegling unless the mob is strong against piercing
BLU I can't remember the last time I equipped Naegling on BLU. Tizona absolutely shits on it.
COR same as RNG, but they're shooting a lot less so yeah...lots of Savage, true. They also have higher Dagger skill than Marksmanship and Sword is only a half-tier behind, they're clearly intended to be meleeing and using swords.
RUN I've never seen using a Naegling. I imagine if you're DDing on RUN you're solo or extremely low-man, in which case you should be self-SC with a GS, not spamming Savage like a rube.

Not saying plenty of people aren't spamming Savage on everything, just saying I don't think it's really fair to say that all those jobs use Savage all the time...Some of them (BRD, COR) it's quite common, but for a lot of those jobs it's a major outlier if you're using SB on them and you're ham-fisting some dumb stuff.

Savage is Frag/Scission
Spin Slash is Frag, Resolution is Frag, both play nice with Naeg regarding SC's.
Scythe has no Frag options.

If the drk is resorting to Naeg because "SC reasons" instead of using Spin or Reso, theres a problem.