I don't bother with any of this stuff precisely because of how difficult it is to manage in vanilla FFXI. The fact that you think it's easy convinces me that you've absolutely never done it in vanilla FFXI at all and are pulling ***out of your ***.
Here's another fun one for you, how do you lay out your COR macros?
Shooting: High vs low acc
Shooting: white dmg vs max STP
Melee: Dagger vs Sword
PDL: Low vs High
MelAcc: Low vs High
Melee: Single vs DW
DT: High vs low
Shots: How many elements do you have macros for?
You can use shorthand if you want. Show me your 20 macros (what they do) and then how you're going to use your 10 macro pages to cover these toggles. I'll wait for your easy solution.
I'll make it easy, just make sure to include:
Savage, Flat, Burning for Sword
Evis, Aeolian, Viper for Dagger
Hot Shot, Leaden, Wildfire, Last Stand for Gun
Oh, I also forgot: where are your macros for rolling, in this scenario?
How do you equip your movement speed gear?
Do you have an idle set? How do you equip it?
I forgot to include triple shot toggles as well, sorry. I don't mean to make this homework assignment more difficult, but if you could throw that in as well, I'd appreciate it.
Newer Players Need To Step Up Their Game
Newer players need to step up their game
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »
I’m confused because sometimes I feel maletaru can’t stand non-vanilla folks and sometimes he proves the point why people use lua and s h i t. I could be the confused one as the ESL dude here. But at least he brings conversations, I give him that.
I don't mind non-vanilla people as a general matter of course. Basically every person I play with (certainly all my closest friends) use addons, luas, etc. Most of them use a whole pile of other third party tools also.
I take issue when people make statements about how these tools are just "QOL" or when people say "Um, ackchyually, you can do that in vanilla" as if these things don't provide an advantage or that the advantage is some minor convenience. Especially when it comes from people (not this guy necessarily, I don't know him) who haven't played Vanilla in 15 years and don't know what the *** they're talking about.
Most people who make comments about the gameplay differences between vanilla and modded FFXI haven't seen vanilla FFXI in years and have so much ***installed they have no idea what the differences are.
At this point I half suspect this is an idiotic trick to get me to make your cor macros.
Row 1: STP low acc.
Idle set, Shooting macro, Melee set, 10 slots for ws even though one can easily plan ahead and combine those macros together by adding a // at a line, ohshit, dark/light shot(stnpc to combine into a single macro), current planned MB element shot. Bolter's roll with double up stnpc, Random deal, triple shot shooting set if that's separate from your normal shooting set,Snapshot gear if your can't fit it all in your shooting macro EMPTY SPACE (for phalanx +gear, Utsu Ni, or absorb tp. IDGAF what)
Row 2. Stp high acc
repeat easily because the game has copy/paste for macros
Row 3 White dmg
repeat
row 4 White dmg high acc
repeat
Row 5. JA row. You do not have 20 regularly used JA nor will you be using all 8 elements reasonably. Several of those JA do not have associated gear and can be manually activated like berserk if /war or cutting cards. Crooked cards can be baked into whatever roll macro you deem most important 3-4 Phantom roll macros at most. 2-3 stp shot macros . Another 2-3 for raw damage. 2 more macros for copy/paste pregame setup to switch out your expected shots/phantom rolls if you were lazy and didn't just comment out what you don't use to save macro space. 4 remaining JA that actually use gear swaps on cor to use with macros. Shot and ws macros that change into your relevant tp/idle set to use in between your JA/rolls in the remaining 4-7 spaces.
Row 6-10 Repeat 1-4 for PDL if so desired and you didn't just remove triple shot, random deal,etc, or combine one of the sword/dagger ws macros so that you didn't even need these rows to be filled out.
Alternatively these are your hybrid sets with 1-4 being your glass cannon sets if you included PDL ws in sets 1-4 and haven't reached a stage where having high -dt in your standard sets is trivial. If you have PDL sets you should have high -dt/MEVA in regular sets and vice versa at your gear progression point.
Row 1: STP low acc.
Idle set, Shooting macro, Melee set, 10 slots for ws even though one can easily plan ahead and combine those macros together by adding a // at a line, ohshit, dark/light shot(stnpc to combine into a single macro), current planned MB element shot. Bolter's roll with double up stnpc, Random deal, triple shot shooting set if that's separate from your normal shooting set,Snapshot gear if your can't fit it all in your shooting macro EMPTY SPACE (for phalanx +gear, Utsu Ni, or absorb tp. IDGAF what)
Row 2. Stp high acc
repeat easily because the game has copy/paste for macros
Row 3 White dmg
repeat
row 4 White dmg high acc
repeat
Row 5. JA row. You do not have 20 regularly used JA nor will you be using all 8 elements reasonably. Several of those JA do not have associated gear and can be manually activated like berserk if /war or cutting cards. Crooked cards can be baked into whatever roll macro you deem most important 3-4 Phantom roll macros at most. 2-3 stp shot macros . Another 2-3 for raw damage. 2 more macros for copy/paste pregame setup to switch out your expected shots/phantom rolls if you were lazy and didn't just comment out what you don't use to save macro space. 4 remaining JA that actually use gear swaps on cor to use with macros. Shot and ws macros that change into your relevant tp/idle set to use in between your JA/rolls in the remaining 4-7 spaces.
Row 6-10 Repeat 1-4 for PDL if so desired and you didn't just remove triple shot, random deal,etc, or combine one of the sword/dagger ws macros so that you didn't even need these rows to be filled out.
Alternatively these are your hybrid sets with 1-4 being your glass cannon sets if you included PDL ws in sets 1-4 and haven't reached a stage where having high -dt in your standard sets is trivial. If you have PDL sets you should have high -dt/MEVA in regular sets and vice versa at your gear progression point.
OK but you missed the entire point of the exercise.
Every single macro needs to be different if you have a different toggle. For example:
You have a macro for WS. This macro will look something like:
/equipset WS gear
/ws "ws name" <t> <wait 1>
/equipset TP gear
If your WS gear changes (because of PDL toggle) then this macro needs to have a different equipset in "WS gear". If your TP gear changes, you need a different equipset in "TP gear".
This means that every time your DT option, accuracy option, or PDL option changes, all of your WS macros have to change.
What's a shooting macro? What kind of shooting? High acc STP shooting? Low acc, low PDL, white damage shooting?
When you Triple shot, is it using Triple shot + white damage, or triple shot + STP? Low accuracy triple shot white damage, or high accuracy triple shot STP?
After you finish your shot in triple shot macro, is it swapping back to low PDT or high PDT?
When you do your elemental shot, is it using your STP set, or your elemental damage set?
Every single macro needs to be different if you have a different toggle. For example:
You have a macro for WS. This macro will look something like:
/equipset WS gear
/ws "ws name" <t> <wait 1>
/equipset TP gear
If your WS gear changes (because of PDL toggle) then this macro needs to have a different equipset in "WS gear". If your TP gear changes, you need a different equipset in "TP gear".
This means that every time your DT option, accuracy option, or PDL option changes, all of your WS macros have to change.
What's a shooting macro? What kind of shooting? High acc STP shooting? Low acc, low PDL, white damage shooting?
When you Triple shot, is it using Triple shot + white damage, or triple shot + STP? Low accuracy triple shot white damage, or high accuracy triple shot STP?
After you finish your shot in triple shot macro, is it swapping back to low PDT or high PDT?
When you do your elemental shot, is it using your STP set, or your elemental damage set?
You are literally too illiterate to understand this conversation. Good night.
I'll spend the rest of the night trying to find your high melee accuracy, low ranged accuracy, high PDL, Triple shot up, single-wielding shooting macro. Don't think I can find it though because I'm illiterate.
Here's the map of your sets:
1:
STP, low acc, low PDL
2:
STP, high acc, low PDL
3:
white damage, low acc, low PDL
4:
white damage high acc, low PDL
5:
JA
6:
STP, low acc, high PDL
7:
STP, high acc, high PDL
8:
white damage, low acc, high PDL
9:
white damage high acc, high PDL
Afraid to say you forgot to include DT toggles at all, and don't have any different macros for single-wielding vs dual wielding. You also don't have any way to differentiate your shots in all 9 of these pages between max damage quick draw and max STP quick draw. Unless you meant that to do a fire shot you're meant to hit: Ctrl + shift + 5, then alt + whatever macro for the shot, then remember what page you were on and hit ctrl + shift + # for that page. Seems a bit more cumbersome than a lua.
I also personally find it quite difficult to use because you have to ctrl + shift + 5 to get to your rolls, then remember what page you were on and ctrl + shift + # back to that page for every roll, but I guess fair's fair, you did implement over half of what I asked for without going over 10 pages. Unfortunately I think it's rather important that you have DW and SW sets at a minimum which means another 8 pages. Different DT sets will double that again so...maybe 3-4 books should cover it.
You can, as you said, just go without DT sets since we've advanced past the need for that. On the other hand, if you had a lua you could have both sets and just hit F7 to toggle between them.
I guess you're right though, in-game macros are much easier than luas.
You say ***like this:
but umm, excuse me sir, which TP set is it going to switch to? If it's on page 5, how does it know if it should go into a DT set, acc set, SW set, DW set? It's not on any of those pages. Speaking of which, after you finish rolling, which TP set is your roll macro going to switch back into? The shot macros on page 5, which TP set will they change back into after they finish their shot?
Here's the map of your sets:
1:
STP, low acc, low PDL
2:
STP, high acc, low PDL
3:
white damage, low acc, low PDL
4:
white damage high acc, low PDL
5:
JA
6:
STP, low acc, high PDL
7:
STP, high acc, high PDL
8:
white damage, low acc, high PDL
9:
white damage high acc, high PDL
Afraid to say you forgot to include DT toggles at all, and don't have any different macros for single-wielding vs dual wielding. You also don't have any way to differentiate your shots in all 9 of these pages between max damage quick draw and max STP quick draw. Unless you meant that to do a fire shot you're meant to hit: Ctrl + shift + 5, then alt + whatever macro for the shot, then remember what page you were on and hit ctrl + shift + # for that page. Seems a bit more cumbersome than a lua.
I also personally find it quite difficult to use because you have to ctrl + shift + 5 to get to your rolls, then remember what page you were on and ctrl + shift + # back to that page for every roll, but I guess fair's fair, you did implement over half of what I asked for without going over 10 pages. Unfortunately I think it's rather important that you have DW and SW sets at a minimum which means another 8 pages. Different DT sets will double that again so...maybe 3-4 books should cover it.
You can, as you said, just go without DT sets since we've advanced past the need for that. On the other hand, if you had a lua you could have both sets and just hit F7 to toggle between them.
I guess you're right though, in-game macros are much easier than luas.
You say ***like this:
Quetzalcoatl.Khajit said: »
Shot and ws macros that change into your relevant tp/idle set to use in between your JA/rolls in the remaining 4-7 spaces.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
I'll spend the rest of the night...
How about instead just giving it a rest and not arguing every little vanilla vs. chocolate debate that comes your way.
[+]
No respect for strawberry whatsoever smh.
[+]
I just 5/5 Espial 100% of the time and don't macro anything.
Checkmate, tryhards
Checkmate, tryhards
[+]
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
You have a macro for WS. This macro will look something like:
/equipset WS gear
/ws "ws name" <t> <wait 1>
/equipset TP gear
If your WS gear changes (because of PDL toggle) then this macro needs to have a different equipset in "WS gear". If your TP gear changes, you need a different equipset in "TP gear".
This means that every time your DT option, accuracy option, or PDL option changes, all of your WS macros have to change
/equipset WS gear
/ws "ws name" <t> <wait 1>
/equipset TP gear
If your WS gear changes (because of PDL toggle) then this macro needs to have a different equipset in "WS gear". If your TP gear changes, you need a different equipset in "TP gear".
This means that every time your DT option, accuracy option, or PDL option changes, all of your WS macros have to change
No you don't.
This is the usual WS macro:
/equipset WS gear
/ws "ws name"
After the WS I simply press another button for the TP gear so it swaps back to whatever I was using before. TP set isn't locked in WS macro.
Sure, it's one more button press than your method but it's not more button press than fighting game or action games, so it's whatever.
This topic is changing everday to different thing.
I wonder where it will reach at the end.
I wonder where it will reach at the end.
Trusts are everyone's best friends so just trust them only.
Trusts are automation therefor bad.
Real XI heroes play solo onry no trusts no LS no wikis.
Real XI heroes play solo onry no trusts no LS no wikis.
Afania said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
You have a macro for WS. This macro will look something like:
/equipset WS gear
/ws "ws name" <t> <wait 1>
/equipset TP gear
If your WS gear changes (because of PDL toggle) then this macro needs to have a different equipset in "WS gear". If your TP gear changes, you need a different equipset in "TP gear".
This means that every time your DT option, accuracy option, or PDL option changes, all of your WS macros have to change
/equipset WS gear
/ws "ws name" <t> <wait 1>
/equipset TP gear
If your WS gear changes (because of PDL toggle) then this macro needs to have a different equipset in "WS gear". If your TP gear changes, you need a different equipset in "TP gear".
This means that every time your DT option, accuracy option, or PDL option changes, all of your WS macros have to change
No you don't.
This is the usual WS macro:
/equipset WS gear
/ws "ws name"
After the WS I simply press another button for the TP gear so it swaps back to whatever I was using before. TP set isn't locked in WS macro.
Sure, it's one more button press than your method but it's not more button press than fighting game or action games, so it's whatever.
OK, but the same thing applies.
Let's say you have the macros that he suggested:
Quote:
Idle set, Shooting macro, Melee set, 10 slots for ws even though one can easily plan ahead and combine those macros together by adding a // at a line, ohshit, dark/light shot(stnpc to combine into a single macro), current planned MB element shot. Bolter's roll with double up stnpc, Random deal, triple shot shooting set if that's separate from your normal shooting set,Snapshot gear if your can't fit it all in your shooting macro
You have a "melee set" macro and 10 slots for "ws".
the "WS" macro has to have a WS set defined. Is this a PDL set or not? Is this a DT set or not? Accuracy or not?
You have a single "Melee set" macro, which melee set is this? DW? SW? DT? Accuracy?
You either have multiple macros per set (SB high acc high PDL high DT) or multiple macro pages. Either way, you have to multiply everything by the number of toggles you want to include, because you need to use a different equipset per.
You can *kind of* get around this by combining them, as he suggested. If you have high acc then also include high PDL and high DT, but this is just sacrificing some level of customization/toggles to save space. You can also just have 1 toggle that goes from trash to V25 boss...but that's not the point, you're losing customization (while also making it significantly harder to use).
Kaffy said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
I'll spend the rest of the night...
How about instead just giving it a rest and not arguing every little vanilla vs. chocolate debate that comes your way.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
No respect for strawberry whatsoever smh.
Neapolitan, that's right I'm a problem solver.
[+]
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
multiple macro pages
Well yes, if you want to min max in vanilla as cor you need multiple pages/macro book. I didn't deny that, only pointed out locking TP set in your WS macro isn't the ideal way to write macros.
Kadokawa said: »
This topic is changing everday to different thing.
I wonder where it will reach at the end.
I wonder where it will reach at the end.
[+]
Yeah, the unskilled often mistake skill for luck or hand wave it away as "just more/better tools".
[+]
Well, technically the games goes too fast for his own mechanics, so in the case of most jobs including COR, you cannot do:
Equipset 100 (pre-whatever)
/ja-ma “Whatever” <whatever>
Equipset 101 (mid-whatever)
Wait 2
Equipset 103 (idle or engage)
Because that’s too fast, only SMN avatar casting is slow enough (ok impact as well) you would need a macro just for pre- whatever then a 2nd macro for mid-whatever +wait 2 then a third macro for idle/engage if not you might have to double all the macros just because of the end result. Most spell and shot goes faster than the 1 sec macro rule. But the biggest issue is the 199 equipset…
Very few jobs can handle without GS, and most you should just do a WSD/PDL and scrap the acc, just put as much acc in every set, I mean seriously something that take less than 1200 got to die before you even WS anyway. DNC GEO BRD SMN live without GS, PLD WHM RDM no effing way, way too many variables, even BLM would be hard without it, I would probably finish the cast in FC gear (instead of idle and so have a macro for that, but then I need a whole page of macro (+equipset) just for mana wall)) to chain the next spell if I was using macro.
So yeah it get constrictive very fast.
Equipset 100 (pre-whatever)
/ja-ma “Whatever” <whatever>
Equipset 101 (mid-whatever)
Wait 2
Equipset 103 (idle or engage)
Because that’s too fast, only SMN avatar casting is slow enough (ok impact as well) you would need a macro just for pre- whatever then a 2nd macro for mid-whatever +wait 2 then a third macro for idle/engage if not you might have to double all the macros just because of the end result. Most spell and shot goes faster than the 1 sec macro rule. But the biggest issue is the 199 equipset…
Very few jobs can handle without GS, and most you should just do a WSD/PDL and scrap the acc, just put as much acc in every set, I mean seriously something that take less than 1200 got to die before you even WS anyway. DNC GEO BRD SMN live without GS, PLD WHM RDM no effing way, way too many variables, even BLM would be hard without it, I would probably finish the cast in FC gear (instead of idle and so have a macro for that, but then I need a whole page of macro (+equipset) just for mana wall)) to chain the next spell if I was using macro.
So yeah it get constrictive very fast.
You almost have it gav, but adding more macros doesn't help. 1s wait is present even if you put each step in a different macro. Certain things can't be done with equipsets and either need to be done with single equip slot statements, idle set changes, not doing as many swaps, etc.
Just QOL stuff though.
Just QOL stuff though.
I didn't read 11 pages of comment... I havent played this game in around a year since work is calming down im thinking of picking it up again.
anyway. an anedoctale story to OP
Around a few years ago. i saw a new player in the new player linkshell i liked to hang out in to help out newcommers/returnees when i just wanted to diddle around in the game
The new comer was trying a fight and kept dying to it because they wanted a specific knife drop. they were fighting with sparks weapons or something similir easy to get. and going for a pretty highend dagger.
I knew teh fight was difficult and with drop rate didnt want to spend to much time on it so instead i offered to fight another nm with the new comer that i knew was an easy win with a much better knife to their current knife.
But the newcomer rejected because that was not the knife they wanted... i tried to explain the newcomer that you have to go in steps here you dont take a step from the bottom of the ladder to the top one you go 1 or maybe 2 rungs at a time. but they refused to listen and go get the lesser dagger that would be an improvement for him.
2 weeks of trying for that dagger/knife and they stopped playing..
i was amazed how some people dont understand that wishfull thinking and wants doesnt get you there you need to look at what you have and start building towards your goal with what improvements are within reach.
Anyway. just an old story
anyway. an anedoctale story to OP
Around a few years ago. i saw a new player in the new player linkshell i liked to hang out in to help out newcommers/returnees when i just wanted to diddle around in the game
The new comer was trying a fight and kept dying to it because they wanted a specific knife drop. they were fighting with sparks weapons or something similir easy to get. and going for a pretty highend dagger.
I knew teh fight was difficult and with drop rate didnt want to spend to much time on it so instead i offered to fight another nm with the new comer that i knew was an easy win with a much better knife to their current knife.
But the newcomer rejected because that was not the knife they wanted... i tried to explain the newcomer that you have to go in steps here you dont take a step from the bottom of the ladder to the top one you go 1 or maybe 2 rungs at a time. but they refused to listen and go get the lesser dagger that would be an improvement for him.
2 weeks of trying for that dagger/knife and they stopped playing..
i was amazed how some people dont understand that wishfull thinking and wants doesnt get you there you need to look at what you have and start building towards your goal with what improvements are within reach.
Anyway. just an old story
[+]
Because it is a waste of time and effort to hit every rung, instead of hop on a helicopter to the last rung.
Literally no one is going to take their sparks dagger, and earn a WKR dagger, to earn a delve dagger, to earn a vanir knife, to earn a crep knife, to earn a tauret, to earn a gleti's knife, to earn a mythic
That's just not how it works. Hundreds of hours and merits and wasted missions and battles and no drops. You skip everything you can.
You don't tell a new player buy a bronze knife, buy a steel knife, buy a platoon dagger, buy an acid kukri, buy a mythril knife, buy a corsairs knife, buy a blau dolch, buy a miseracord.
You tell them use the onion knife to 99. (maybe 2 or 3 upgrades along the way) Same idea. 98 steps to skip. No one should be not skipping those steps.
Literally no one is going to take their sparks dagger, and earn a WKR dagger, to earn a delve dagger, to earn a vanir knife, to earn a crep knife, to earn a tauret, to earn a gleti's knife, to earn a mythic
That's just not how it works. Hundreds of hours and merits and wasted missions and battles and no drops. You skip everything you can.
You don't tell a new player buy a bronze knife, buy a steel knife, buy a platoon dagger, buy an acid kukri, buy a mythril knife, buy a corsairs knife, buy a blau dolch, buy a miseracord.
You tell them use the onion knife to 99. (maybe 2 or 3 upgrades along the way) Same idea. 98 steps to skip. No one should be not skipping those steps.
[+]
This thread was good when it was about shitposts.
Now its derailing from it
Now its derailing from it
People only want Naegling or w/e weapon because "meta, bruh"
Literally any other option for every slot is "Meta or trash, bruh"
Literally any other option for every slot is "Meta or trash, bruh"
[+]
Naegling will never wake up in the middle of the night and tell you it doesn't love you anymore.
[+]
There was never any love with Naeg anyway.
Only Savage sex
Only Savage sex
DaneBlood said: »
I didn't read 11 pages of comment...
You didn’t miss much, just a bunch of "casuals" goin' at it with the "competitives." Truth is, I screwed up my message—it was meant for the hardcore players, plain and simple.
Look, folks walk different paths, chase different goals. You try to shove your view down someone's throat, whether you're casual or hardcore, you're just askin' for trouble.
I’ll apologize to those who got rubbed the wrong way.
But let me be clear—I stand by my code. I play FFXI to win, to push myself, and to do it with respect—unless someone gives me a reason not to.
I’m not the loudmouth type rollin' into a Linkshell, barkin' orders at the leaders, tellin' 'em how to run things, complainin’ like a damn fool, or droppin’ parses just to stir up trouble. That ain't me. I keep my head down, do my work, thank folks for havin’ me, and if I need to, I’ll step into the secondary group, no drama. That’s how I survived Cerberus and Siren, raided for six solid years. Hell, I even brought my BRD-main girlfriend into my new LS, throwin' out real praise when it’s earned, and keepin' things cool. Toxicity? Nah, I ain’t got time for that crap.
[+]
CrAZYVIC said: »
You try to shove your view down someone's throat, whether you're casual or hardcore, you're just askin' for trouble.
Well said.
I rolled my eyes at several comments in this thread as it was. This is, and has been, one of the least new player-friendly MMOs out there. With all the QoL improvements, it still doesn't make it as simple to dive into as any others.
That being said, new players will likely struggle and possibly look towards veterans for help or advice. And if our advice is some of what I've read in this thread, topped with the same attitudes, it's no wonder they end up quitting, making them feel like such a burden. Why not be part of the solution?
If you feel someone is "dead weight" and you're going to complain about it, stop playing with those people. If it's your group's leader making the choice, find another group where you don't have to feel like you're "carrying dead weight".
[+]
Most know and probably don't care, but as the playerbase shrinks over time with no new content it becomes even more important to try to help others so that you have someone to do content with. It's easy to go the exact opposite route and close contact to just your Sortie group or whatever. Much harder to offer help to strangers. Even if you 6box everything or never do anything without your static, consider helping out sometimes in any way you can, no matter how small.
[+]
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