New Games Suck... Or Is It Just Me?
New games suck... or is it just me?
To the window
To the wall
To the wall
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
The article is the one who brought up conspiracies. But perhaps you can answer a question for me: why do these "technical issues and limitations" only seem to affect western artists and developers?
Because Koreans are bunch of plastic surgery lovers who has extremely high beauty standard on faces, so everyone in video games must have the same k-pop plastic surgery face regardless of the character.
You know, like in every k-pop females ALL have the same face! Their games just reflect this culture.
Nynja: based.
I am not a fan of Korean art style and endless beauty worship, I find it boring and lacks variety.
You are free to like Korean style. No need to attack different art style featuring different female style. I think Kay Vess character design is great because it feels like a scoundrel, not a super k-pop model. It feels immersive and more grounded in reality imo.
I don't want every game all feature Korean plastic surgery faces. I want variety. You can have your Korean faces while I should be allowed to have different art style with a more realistic feel.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Peter and Miles both look like normal good looking dudes.
Maybe because you are a straight male so your standard on male and female are different?
Peter and Miles are good looking dudes, seriously? They are average at best. You know, kind of average like everyone else on street.
This is what I called "good looking dudes" in video game
This is "good looking dudes" irl:
Except I didn't go out attacking Peter or Miles design because they are average, not super models. Having a realistic design featuring average dude from your neighbor is perfectly fine. Not everyone needs to be a k-pop idol.
That's a girl.
Afania said: »
Maybe because you are a straight male so your standard on male and female are different?
Pretty sure this take is more region-centric than gender-based. In big cities, where the culture is more worldly, there are plenty of people who find k-pop idols to be peak male attractiveness. I would assume the same is true of areas closer to Korea.
Rural western women are more likely to consider them very unattractive and would commonly use a homophobic slur to describe them. Consensus filter plays a part, if everyone around you considers them attractive you'll see them as high value and that leads to a shared belief they are attractive.
Shiva.Thorny said: »
I would assume the same is true of areas closer to Korea.
It's true. East asians and western culture has different beauty standard, that's why in eastern games girls often look like k-pop idol and guys often look like BTS.
It's cultural difference on beauty standard that caused the difference, not "woke invasion".
If you want to accuse female character in Western games are "woke" because they aren't k-pop idols, then the same standard has to apply to male characters, otherwise it's double standard.
If I fight to insert my own beauty standard in every video games then every games should have BTS looking dudes too, not Peter and Miles average joe. But you wouldn't want that right? Since they are "girly" to many western people.
So how come only Nynja is allowed to force their own beauty standard in games but not me? It's not fair.
Personally, I play games because I enjoy art. I enjoy world building that's grounded in reality.
I don't enjoy looking at K-pop idols, male or female, in every game that features warrior characters, it breaks immersion. Just because I find BTS attractive, doesn't mean I think a powerful soldier with a brutal big sword should have BTS face.
The same standard applies to both male and female. Bikini armor is dumb and immersion breaking, so does female warrior or rogue character with a k-pop face.
Right now anti-wokes are bullying artists for not making art grounded in realism. This is killing art lol.
If you want to see pretty women, go watch k-pop or porn something. Leave other stories alone, let them tell stories that they want to tell.
I don't enjoy looking at K-pop idols, male or female, in every game that features warrior characters, it breaks immersion. Just because I find BTS attractive, doesn't mean I think a powerful soldier with a brutal big sword should have BTS face.
The same standard applies to both male and female. Bikini armor is dumb and immersion breaking, so does female warrior or rogue character with a k-pop face.
Right now anti-wokes are bullying artists for not making art grounded in realism. This is killing art lol.
If you want to see pretty women, go watch k-pop or porn something. Leave other stories alone, let them tell stories that they want to tell.
Afania said: »
If you want to accuse female character in Western games are "woke" because they aren't k-pop idols, then the same standard has to apply to male characters, otherwise it's double standard.
The appearances chosen for females in many recent western games are not those that would be ranked highly by any major demographic. They are seemingly chosen to provide representation to females of average or below average appearance, because of a liberal push against female idealization that has been growing since the days of Barbie.
The same is not true for male characters, male characters are largely idealized by one standard or another. They are not actively made to look average or below average. In my opinion, it's pretty clearly an ideology thing.
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Shiva.Thorny said: »
They are seemingly chosen to provide representation to females of average or below average appearance, because of a liberal push against female idealization that has been growing since the days of Barbie.
The second part is conspiracy theory though.
If there is a female soldier or warrior irl, then that person will very likely be "average or below average" in terms of female beauty standard. Go look at all those boxing or weightlifting female athletes, that's how I imagined most rl female warriors will look like: Masculine, manly, and not sexually appealing.
People have np with realistic male warriors, because "masculine" is a positive trait for man. But "masculine" is a negative trait for female.
Which leads to a situation that if artists prioritize realism, then male characters will undeniably always be more "attractive" than female because the beauty standard on both sex aren't the same to begin with.
Then artists either have to never make female a warrior in games or sacrifice realism for eye candy to make you happy. Pick your poison.
Afania said: »
Then artists either have to never make female a warrior on games or sacrifice realism for eye candy
This is somewhat true if there is a requirement for excessive musculature or a rugged appearance. But, there are other examples, such as the Fable protagonist or Kay Vess, where the ugliness is clearly a design choice.
If all male protagonist had broken nose, scars, etc.. to highlight their character, maybe it would be understandable in those contexts too. But, I'm going to take the simple explanation: Female characters got ugly across a wide variety of games in a very short time period, while male characters were largely unchanged. I believe it's due to ideology.
There was a large documented movement(GamerGate) specifically chasing this sort of thing. Now, we get it, and I'm expected to believe it's completely nonpolitical and happened organically in the wake of that?
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Kay Vess, where the ugliness is clearly a design choice.
It's true that Kay Vess's design toned down the female traits from the face model, for VERY logical story reasons.
Her face model's rl job is a model, Kay Vess's job is a rogue/scoundrel. If you are a female that deals with dangerous people all the time, the most logical choice to avoid trouble is to dress up like a man. Why would you want to dress up like a female model in a bar full of dangerous people?
Kay Vess is exactly how I would imagine how a female scoundrel would look like irl.
Quote:
Female characters got ugly across a wide variety of games in a very short time period, while male characters were largely unchanged. I believe it's due to ideology.
But this is just not true.
This is character from BG2, the left and right characters are female. you think they are hot? I think they look worse than Kay Vess lol.
Western games have never used k-pop/anime design since forever. They always have ugly characters. BOTH male and female. Like the BG2 guy on the middle.
So I don't believe the conspiracy theory at all.
idk why you guys are even engaging afania lol. the dude is the most bad faith "debater" this forum has ever seen and that's really saying something
Shiva.Thorny said: »
If all male protagonist had broken nose, scars
If a male character have broken nose and scars, people praise him for being manly.
If a male character that looks like a 50 year old dude like Kratos or Geralt, people praise them because "sexy silver fox!!!!"
Apply the reverse on female characters you have a tons of angry mobs yelling "woke!!!!"
Shiva.Thorny said: »
There was a large documented movement(GamerGate) specifically chasing this sort of thing. Now, we get it, and I'm expected to believe it's completely nonpolitical and happened organically in the wake of that?
You are right, there are woke and anti-woke. Both are political.
My stance applies to both sides, if you don't like something, don't buy it, make your own, whatever.
Posting 1 million propaganda on the internet attacking artists isn't good behavior. That's all.
The same standard applies to woke mobs attacking Kim for Stellar Blade, obviously. Fair?
GetHelpNerd said: »
it's "bad faith" if you don't agree with a pov
Got it.
Afania said: »
It's true that Kay Vess's design toned down the female traits from the face model, for VERY logical story reasons.
Her face model's rl job is a model, Kay Vess's job is a rogue/scoundrel. If you are a female that deals with dangerous people all the time, the most logical choice to avoid trouble is to dress up like a man. Why would you want to dress up like a female model in a bar full of dangerous people?
Kay Vess is exactly how I would imagine how a female scoundrel would look like irl.
Her face model's rl job is a model, Kay Vess's job is a rogue/scoundrel. If you are a female that deals with dangerous people all the time, the most logical choice to avoid trouble is to dress up like a man. Why would you want to dress up like a female model in a bar full of dangerous people?
Kay Vess is exactly how I would imagine how a female scoundrel would look like irl.
To be fair, her base design looks like it belongs in the 70s sci-fi aesthetic of the game.
IE, would look right at home in something like this
Does seem like maybe there were some rigging or animation issues, but that's not really the same complaint.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Money talks. Blackrock is probably content to take a hit to send their *** messages, but they are just part of the shareholders and the other investors of the publicly traded company may not be as willing to burn money like that over and over.
This actually popped up THREE hours after I made this post.
Another far-right conspiracy thats come true!
Afania said: »
eter and Miles are good looking dudes, seriously? They are average at best. You know, kind of average like everyone else on street.
Afania said: »
The second part is conspiracy theory though.
I literally cited examples how western artists and dev's have "technical issues and limitations" designing female faces that are not present when designing male faces, and eastern artists and dev's dont have that problem. If these "technical issues and limitations" only affect western artists and dev's only when making female faces, then its not a technical issue and limitation, it is a choice.
Afania said: »
Because Koreans are bunch of plastic surgery lovers who has extremely high beauty standard on faces
Its a choice.
[+]
Shiva.Thorny said: »
There was a large documented movement(GamerGate) specifically chasing this sort of thing. Now, we get it, and I'm expected to believe it's completely nonpolitical and happened organically in the wake of that?
From the wiki
Quote:
Gamergate or GamerGate (GG)[1] was a loosely organized misogynistic online harassment campaign and a right-wing backlash against feminism, diversity, and progressivism in video game culture.[2][3][4] It was conducted using the hashtag "#Gamergate" primarily in 2014 and 2015.[1][5][6][7] Gamergate targeted women in the video game industry, most notably feminist media critic Anita Sarkeesian and video game developers Zoë Quinn and Brianna Wu.[8][9][10][11][12]
Gamergate began with an August 2014 blog entry called "The Zoe Post" by Quinn's ex-boyfriend, which falsely insinuated that Quinn had received a favorable review because of Quinn's sexual relationship with a games journalist.[13] The blog post was spread to 4chan, where many users had previously disparaged Quinn's work. This led to a campaign of harassment against Quinn, coordinated through anonymous message boards such as 4chan, 8chan, and Reddit.[14][15] The harassment campaign expanded to target Sarkeesian, Wu, and others who defended Quinn, and included doxing, rape threats, and death threats.[16][17][18]
Gamergate began with an August 2014 blog entry called "The Zoe Post" by Quinn's ex-boyfriend, which falsely insinuated that Quinn had received a favorable review because of Quinn's sexual relationship with a games journalist.[13] The blog post was spread to 4chan, where many users had previously disparaged Quinn's work. This led to a campaign of harassment against Quinn, coordinated through anonymous message boards such as 4chan, 8chan, and Reddit.[14][15] The harassment campaign expanded to target Sarkeesian, Wu, and others who defended Quinn, and included doxing, rape threats, and death threats.[16][17][18]
Chanti probably thinks the gamergate 2 harassment campaign was also started by the far-right chuds, that Alyssa Mercante is an innocent victim of harassment who did nothing wrong.
I mean I don't blame anyone for paroting the slander pieces online about gamergate. Hardly anyone remembers what it actually was.
Even the wiki article has "(Harassment_Campaign)" in its title.
And if you try to look it up all you find is mainstream news articles about alleged harassment campaigns. Almost like that is on purpose.
Even the wiki article has "(Harassment_Campaign)" in its title.
And if you try to look it up all you find is mainstream news articles about alleged harassment campaigns. Almost like that is on purpose.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
then its not a technical issue and limitation, it is a choice.
I did say it's a Kay's design is choice to begin with. It's a choice to put realism above eye candy on character design.
No, I don't think it's technical limitation. Nor I care. That isn't the point.
You mean the mainstream media is paid and bought to promote a certain agenda?!?
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
You mean the mainstream media is paid and bought to promote a certain agenda?!?
I don't care about mainstream media, I only care about game design freedom on artistic expression.
If you want to fight media, go ahead. I won't stop you.
You were fighting game dev a few pages back though.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
You mean the mainstream media is paid and bought to promote a certain agenda?!?
Genuinely curious, where do you get your news from?
Afania said: »
I did say it's a choice to begin with. It's a choice to put realism above eye candy.
No, I don't think it's technical limitation. Nor I care. That isn't the point.
No, I don't think it's technical limitation. Nor I care. That isn't the point.
These are characters modeled off REAL human females. Theres no scars or physical damage that made these ingame characters ugly. They altered the physical structure of their face to make them ugly.
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