Framerate Tanks When Any FF11 Instance Is In Focus

If cpu clock remains the same can discount cpu throttling. I'd check temps just to be sure but if it's not throttling frequency that is unlikely.

Same issue with and without dgvoodoo enabled?

Yeah, temps are fine, same issue with and without dgvoodoo enabled.

Have also tried other directx wrappers other than dgvoodoo also.

Just more dumb ideas:
Do you have a extra monitor that's just like 1080P 60hz you could try? take the g sync stuff out of the loop completely?

What type of gaming controller do you use? xbox ps4 etc.? Is it USB or a wireless dongle? Any button remapping software such as REWASD etc.? Any other (odd) USB devices plugged in? (I have seen some odd FPS behavior in FFXI with some USB controller converters I have tried)

What happens with no gaming controller plugged in at all?

That has been the idea that's been floating around in my head, to try a 1080p 60hz alternate monitor.

The only thing is, the issue is also on my surface pro, that doesn't have Gsync, but does run at a high refresh rate and higher than 1080p.
So the effort of finding a 1080p 60hz monitor to use I've been avoiding, as there's a good chance it won't make a difference.
But yeah, I know, I'm gonna have to do it at some point to at least discount it lol

Currently using a wireless modded Dualsense controller, and have mapped alt and tab to the rear triggers with JoyToKey.
edit. The issue still happens even without my bluetooth dongle plugged in, and no controller connected.

No odd usb devices connected.

I am worried that it's a behavioural problem of windows itself, and done plenty of tests down that route also, but haven't been able to confirm it.

Also was thinking outside the box with some attempts to get around the issue.

Tried to find a way to force a window of my choice to permanently stay in focus, but drag it nearly all the way off screen.

That'd keep all my FF11 instances as out of focus instances and they'd all work at full speed.

After an all nighter, and finally had to stop at 10am, I thought it'd finally managed that, but the problem was, the window I had now made permanently in focus, wasn't just permanently in focus, it was stopping any other actions, so I could not alt tab between FF11 windows.

edit. So if anyone knows how to make a window of your choice permanently in focus, (not always on top, different thing) but still able to alt tab, that'd be one way to get around the issue.
Could even focus it on a transparent window.

I think plenty of things have been ruled out. Which is frustratingly positive. I believe there are plenty of multi boxers out there that haven't seen this issue?, so I would keep working the angle of, what is it, software/hardware/etc that is unique to your PC + SurfacePro that could be causing this issue. "One of these things it not like the other" kinda thingy.

Does JoyToKey auto-load a service in the background even if no controller is plugged it?

Are you using any of the legacy settings in FFXI Config?

I just did test that was at least interesting: I set both Windower config and FFXI config to Windowed mode. (Not boarder-less) I have a single client running, and its doing something similar - 58fps when its not focused, and like 3fps when it is. Not sure if that's helpful. I think you said you tried it already though? Setting both Windower and FFXI config to boarderless? (I currently dont have a 2nd char subbed so I cant try things with 2 chars atm)

Joytokey is a very light weight program, it's a portable install and only runs when turned on, the service for it shuts down with the program shutdown.

I'm pretty sure I tried every combination of the vanilla config and windower config settings, but I am sort of thinking I may have only set bordless windowed in windower and not the official config, so i can at least try that.

Would you be willing to screenshot your settings for the config and windower config Yottaxa?

At least if I copy yours like for like when yours is functioning properly in borderless windowed, I can 100% confirm I've did a legit test, and saves me loads of time logging in and out turning some thing off and some things on and repeating.

Considering you seem to have replicated my problem, this actually might work.

edit. been meaning to say thanks to everyone who have gave there time today to try and help.

Don't think this is possible, if you alt-tab you're changing the window in focus.

Also doesn't seem likely to be a windows thing, or other people would experience the same issue.. it's very unlikely that you'd be the only windows 11 user here.

Can't see why a 60hz hardware limited monitor would matter if you've set your current monitor to 60hz.

Controller is a decent potential avenue, since input would only be present while in focus. FFXI has at least one bug relating to that(it continually polls for a controller every 3 seconds if you have one enabled but not connected, which causes a stutter), but it shouldn't be causing that much of a drop or effecting other windows. I assume you've tried without Joytokey active?

Yeah, tried without JoyToKey active, and also without my bluetooth dongle and controller connected.

I agree with you and your reasoning why it's most likely not a windows problem, just clutching at straws at this point.

That weird behaviour with the addon that disables the mouse is still strange though, not sure why it killed my fps down to 3-4fps, and another user it works fine for.

Can't help but still wonder if it could possibly have anything to do with the issue, but I know, again, clutching at straws.

To be fair, I'm not sure I have fully reproduced your issue, just oddly similar behavior. As some point it seemed to stabilize to normal fps, but then would get mad with any inputs via keyboard. (I didn't try my controller) I can mess around some more later. I can at least attest that for whatever reason my PC doesn't like bordered window what-so-ever.

Interestingly that mouse addon autoloads, so it (might) correlate to the 3-4fps you described. (It has no issues in boarder-less window though)

Here are the settings screenshots you requested:
https://github.com/Yottaxa/FFXI-Settings/tree/main

What all dat and graphics mods are you using?
What are your Windower profile settings?
What are your dgvoodoo2 settings?
Have you disabled Discord Overlay for FFXI?
Have you tried with a single game instance?
Have you tried with all addons and plugins unloaded?
Have you checked task manager thread/core graphs to see if you're maxing out a core? (The game only runs on a single thread, so single thread usage and performance are the only things that matter)
Have you done a clean install of your graphics drivers?
Have you double checked in task manager that your GPU is actually being used and not integrated graphics on CPU?

Most of those questions were actually asked and answered, fyi.

also (from Windower Discord):

Yottaxa is correct, as for the unanswered questions, yes, to all of them, have tried them all.

For example, all of today's tests are on fresh windower installs with only the config plugin loaded, so no need to worry that possible dat mods, or any other addon could be the culprit.

Dgvoodoo settings vary depending on what I'm testing, I'll test with both 4096mb Vram, and 1024mb of Vram.

We have established though, that neither the CPU or GPU are actually bottlenecking by themselves, but there is something possibly affecting CPU scheduling.

Huh?
I asked several questions that are not yes/no (like for what all mods you are using and about all the settings you're using). If you answered, I didn't see them.
I'm skimming but I see nothing about single core usage/performance or discord.

And saying "settings vary" is not descriptive enough to help me help you.

If you actually want help, I recommend you take the time to directly answer questions instead of saying "I've tried all sorts of stuff"

I appreciate your trying to help, but the only non yes or no answer I have not given yet is, what are my windower settings, which I am going to cover now.

As Yottaxa said, most of them were either answered in this thread already, or are yes or no answers.

The windower settings will end up being sort of null though, the issue happens with my main windower installs, or fresh installs without any changes.

edit. and now with Yottaxa's windower and ffxi config settings.

Confirmed, issue is still present with your settings Yottaxa, thanks very much for the screenshots though.

simple dumb question
do u use temp file/registry clearing program/s?

CCleaner for example is what i use when my game gets all laggy n buggy n slow.

if u have multiple tabs open in your browser, running multiple programs at the same time, etc. It seems to affect the game.

simple solution for me, give it a try. /shrug

Have you tired it with Ashita?

If you experience the same issue with Ashita, then it is likely not worth your time focusing on windower, as it will likely be something with your system.

Try running one instance of FFXI as windowed fullscreen and see if it still exhibits the same behavior.

Discord is not active when I'm testing, so there is no reason to flood this topic with needless info for people.

Basic things like testing with or without things like discord please assume I have done, the same applies to things like mods, it's pretty basic to test on a clean modless install, so please assume I have done that, this is a problem I have been trying to fix for years, and my RL work is in computers, so I at least have a manageable knowledge of computers.

As for settings vary, in quotations, sorry, I didn't say that lol, not sure who you are quoting, please don't make assumptions when only skimming through the thread please, then try to quote what I have not posted and then to follow up with a quote that did not even exist.

Very early in the thread I apologised in advance to people, because I have returned to try and fix this problem over several years, a lot of the things I have tried do not come to memory until someone offers help relating to it, then it jogs my memory, again, I can only apologise for that, I do feel bad when someone offers an idea I have already tried.

I have addressed why there is no point in giving my windower settings now, to avoid wasting peoples time going down an avenue already taken, so I hope I have addressed the things you mentioned, and I would still very much like yours, and everyone's help who are willing to.

I have to get to the bottom of this problem sometime before I'm 80 lol.

Apologies, yes, I did mention it in an eariler post, but yeah tried Ashita last night.

I know the thread is becoming harder and harder to skim through, thanks for the idea.
edit. I did also try the 1 fullscreen instance, the problem with that is, even when I just run a single windowed instance, the problem gets outdone simply by the fact that one instance doesn't stress enough to uncap my game fps.

I have probably tried it already, but again, struggling to recall all the things i've tried, I'll retry the single instance now, although it won't be possible in fullscreen to test, need to b able to lose focus of the FF11 instance to test the issue.

So I'll just do it in a windowed instance, and uncap my FPS and see if I get any drops when in focused mode vs out of focus.

You're certain about that? Because it can be open in notifications area even if you hit the `X` to "close" it.

Are you fully certain you have a fully clean ffxi install? I've helped countless people with this kind of issue, and a lot of the time they think they have a "Fresh" install but, they actually have files leftover from before or whatever.

... you literally did just say that:

As a Windower dev I have been helping people with stuff like this for years. Just because you tried it once, doesn't mean it applies to anything right now, nor does that tell me if you tried it with or without other things in tandem. So if you want to ignore good suggestions and controlled testing, and not get the help you are asking for, that is your prerogative :shrug:

You have not. Not all "Default" settings are the same across peoples computers. For example, Game resolution. And again, even if you exactly matched that other person's settings, those settings may not be right for solving your problem (for example, super sampling being on, and furthermore, just because supersampling is "on" in the UI, it can have a modified value in the settings file, which a screenshot of the UI would not reveal).

K well good luck I guess :shrug:

I can confirm it does not happen in a single instance.

Even in areas with over 200 fps, wasn't losing a single frame switching between focused, and non focused mode.

... you literally did say that:
O crap, you're right, very sorry about that, In between RL stuff, I've been devoting 24 straight hour to this, I should probably get some sleep and re asess tomorrow.

Honestly, you're dismissive and you say you've tried everything, but I really get the impression you're going off vague memory and you don't trust anyone here to be able to get to the answer. If you don't trust us to know how to get there, and you aren't willing to humor someone's suggestions and try them in a strict and controlled manner, you're not going to get anyone competent willing to spend their time helping you.

Rubenator is very knowledgable, and would almost certainly have been able to solve your problem if you gave him the time and listened. I'm commenting on this because it's the same impression I got; you aren't willing to engage with a single person under the premise they know how to solve it. And, it's a waste of time to try to help someone who insists they've already tried everything but did not clearly document what they have tried.

Ideally, you engage with one support person and go down the list checking a bunch of things that might take 2-3 minutes each, in controlled conditions, with only one change at a time.. this is how troubleshooting works. In practice, nobody who's ever done IT accepts 'oh I tested this in the past at some point I'm sure' as an answer worth considering. This is because we've all seen someone's issue solved by something they 'already tried' dozens of times in the past.

I can only apologise, If that is how it has come across, that is 100% not how I meant it.

I thought I was being polite by trying not to have everyone go through all the stuff I have already tried, it had nothing to do with a lack of confidence in other peoples ability to solve the issue.

I have apologised for my blunt response to Rubenator, but please, his reply was quite harsh and blunt in the first place, I only responded in kind, but that is still on me, so again, I will apologise.

I don't want this thread falling on the way side thanks to a misunderstanding, I was honestly looking for help with this issue.

I thank you Thorny, and everyone who has contributed for their input, I'll get some sleep and look at things with fresh eyes in the morning.

Word. Thorny is very knowledgeable as well.

Depending how much you actually like FFXI, if its a problem thats lasting "years", I would have already give it a try in a new hardware.

IIRC, notebooks are trickier because they have those shared graphic card. It happened to me before running games on that shared graphic card instead of my dedicated one.

Desktops tend to have less trouble with that, and cheaper than notebooks. I personally have my desktop for my mules, and my notebook for my "main" char.

Mind you, I did face those lagging issues on different notebooks.

All those situations were solved by dgvoodoo.

Turn this setting off