THF / RUN Hate Control

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THF / RUN hate control
 Lakshmi.Sahzi
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By Lakshmi.Sahzi 2024-03-14 12:45:30
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I'm embarassed I don't already know the answer to this question but here goes...

Situation:
Eva pulling/tanking thf/RUN in dyna[d], now with mlvls...

I pull, mobs gather, brd sleeps (doesn't really need to, but he invariably does anyway, cause it's safer).

(Dumb)Question:
Can I hit the bard with just a protect 1 to gain hate from all slept mobs? Let's assume he already has protect 5, so obviously it won't overwrite. Does that generate any hate, or do I need something that actually sticks to get some enmity?

Obviously I'm asking so I can follow it up with just foil spam which should hold the group nicely. With run sub we're super limited on stuff to throw at the bard for hate. (Regen2 takes too long to cast imo).

Thanks.
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By Nariont 2024-03-14 13:25:24
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protect 1 should work as a tag, even if it has no effect it still generates a small amount of enmity
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 Asura.Melliny
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By Asura.Melliny 2024-03-14 13:34:04
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This is only partially correct. When mass pilling, according to Martell

The number of mobs you can gain enmity on from a single action is 15

The mobs that are affected are always the top 15 in the mob ID list, so casting AoE spells on a mass group of mobs, curing a person who has cast aoes on said mobs, etc... will always gain enmity on the SAME 15 mobs you already have hate on. In other words, if you mass pull 30+ mobs or some crazy number, you cannot hold hate on them all no matter what you do. The most you will ever have hate on is 15.

And trust me.... from having done dynamis myself for the past half decade with tanks that like to train half the zone I can vouch this is accurate. I've seen it in action far too many times.....
 Lakshmi.Sahzi
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By Lakshmi.Sahzi 2024-03-14 13:44:30
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Thanks Nariont, Melliny. Question answered

Melliny I had never known about that 15 mob max tho. Crazy.
 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2024-03-14 14:32:49
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Lakshmi.Sahzi said: »
Melliny I had never known about that 15 mob max tho. Crazy.
This is news to me as well, and very good to know!
 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2024-03-14 15:02:24
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Asura.Melliny said: »
curing a person who has cast aoes on said mobs, etc... will always gain enmity on the SAME 15 mobs you already have hate on.

This isn't really accurate, if the person has hate on more than 15 curing them will get you hate on more than 15. One potential solution in this case is to have the BRD tag sections of the pull with a wind instrument horde lullaby(it shouldn't hit the entire pull with it's very limited range, so BRD can get hate on up to 15 of the mobs it does hit each time and just target opposite ends of the pull). This should be done after the initial string sleep when the mobs are already sleeping, and before casting protect on the BRD.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2024-03-14 16:17:15
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Yeah, there's no known limit to how many mobs you can get on the hate list for by acting on another player(Assuming said player is on all those mob's hate lists to begin with. And that part tend to be the problem). Not that my tested verified very far. I just made sure that it didn't share that 15 mobs limit.

It's only mob targeted AoE's that have the 15 mob limit. And my original thread covered this but I'll reiterate. The mobs added are based on mob ID. It always adds your direct target(regardless of ID) and the 14 highest ID mobs in the AoE range. This is why multiple AoEs hitting the same set of mobs always enmity tags the same mobs. Although if you change your direct target, you will always add at least that one mob per cast.

So varying the AoE location or size, and thus hitting different mobs, changing what mobs have the highest IDs in the aoe range, can potentially enmity tag additional mobs in the pull.

There are a few other methods to get on the hate list for all mobs in mass pulls, but ultimately the issue with all of them is that they are all time consuming, requiring many casts using spells hitting various subsets of mobs, or moving tagged mobs away from the main group 15 at a time, etc.
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