Do You Prefer The Current Stat Values?

OK, what's your composition for an 18-man alliance? 6 people completing the content and 12 people making themselves a nice sandwich?

Whats so "huh" about it?

How can one person *** and moan about how the entire games content is Naegling Savage Blade with 5 buffers, while also mentioning that the nuke wall must stay because mages would be OP if they werent, while also stating that the bard prime weapon had to be a melee buff song because there are so many DD's and no one plays mage jobs.

Lol ok.

Feels a bit odd to still be going on about the type of content we have now. It's not likely to change ... ever. The jobs we have are reasonably balanced. Not everything shines in all endgame content. Every job has some kind of relevant place to do something, even if that thing isn't in "the meta."

Getting back to gear:

75 vs 119 (I quit near the beginning of WoG, came back in Rhapsodies):

I agree that the lack of purpose for old items is a feel bad. All the old classics aren't good for much other than level capped content, which only very rarely ever matters, and that's usually if you're just not done with certain older content yet, or very briefly if you're leveling a job the old fashioned way. There's a few non-ilvl boots that matter for movement speed I guess?

Back at 75 everything through Wings (at 75) felt like sidegrades. Abjuration gear and Salvage gear was pretty much everything. The one thing that really stood out was haste. Haste started to pop up on a piece here and there, and when the Homam stuff came out that's really when I remember things getting nutty. Had a grand old time going bonkers on something with a Rune Chopper on DRK every two hours.

I like how things are presently. Haste is fun, so haste is on everything. Damage reduction shows up the better the 119 gear gets because they don't know how to find the sweet spot between "completely murderous" and "a joke" for damage output that keeps tanks important while not devastating the whole rest of the group if they also aren't geared like mini tanks.

Unfortunately there's no good indication as to which content you're ready for with what tier of 119 gear, especially when you're just starting out. That's what the wiki or Google are for. Figuring out the differences and uses for Skirmish/Artifact/Relic/Empy/Ambu gear to start getting into harder content is just how advancement works. Sure, a lot of the Odyssey/Empy+3 stuff blows the older sets out of the water, but a fair bit of those still have enough use that there's still all kinds of mixed up gear sets to figure out for most jobs.

It's not that different as knowing what the gear caps are on haste, damage reduction, or fast cast. It's a bunch of numbers in game with a bunch of rules the game isn't interested in teaching you. This whole game is basically "go do a bunch of research outside of the game to figure out how to play it, then come back and slog through something or another to get the gear you want so you can do the content you want. After that go do the content you want to get the gear you really want so you can do that content more betterer."

Silly, Thats Dyna D

The content I would like would be like Einherjar who had a 3-way baby with Omen and salvage

Muti paths with changes like Salvage depending on the time on NMs killed and along which teleports people use etc. Could even do one that splits up the group to do 2 objectives. Bosses that could be weakened or maybe even enable a hard mode if you complete the event in a certain way. Would be really scaled to 2 parties but allowing a 3rd so new players can assist. Maybe add a really hardcore zone instance at the end that requires 18 A-game players.

Each zone will be a reflection of a popular FFXIAH Forum player, Your zone will be a stale zone that requires you to be negative all day and not funny at all.

Nvm about that last part, sortie already exists...

My area will be an area where everyone has to fight a buncha two faced Warriors that have 100% double attack, 100% retaliation rate (even from behind), and attack as fast as players do. They're also immune to magic damage, but not enfeeblement.

So you gotta beat it using Rangers mostly. Rangers with Archery.

Because they take x3 Trueshot damage...

Mine would be filled with Malboro's because I'm a jerk RDM and I would deserve that for all debuffs mobs they've taken from me over the years. But since my new project is DRG, they drop from the ceiling like UFOs

Mine would look into your inventory and use your items. If you beat it, you get all your items back, if you lose say goodbye to that altana repast.

If you have no usable items in inventory, it rages and steals your gear. If you eventually manage to beat it, you get back all the gear it ever stole from you.

Oh, and there's a maze to get to it, with an npc at the start welcoming you. If you go at 161% movement speed or above, that npc draws you in and tells you "don't run, you will sweat and then catch a cold!". If you poshack it will also draw you in.

Dunno, I just woke up.

Shuffles all members into 3 parties, and shoves each into a different subfloor. For sanity's sake, automatically form the parties so that you immediately know who you're with and have a clear chat channel with only people in your subfloor. Use somewhat intelligent job distribution (group all healers, divide by 3.. group all tanks, divide by 3, group all buffers, divide by 3, etc..). Floor has either a lot of trash mobs, a big NM, or a few trash mobs and a medium NM. Everything has various damage resistances(fixed by mob appearance/name so they can be learned) so that each job present needs to be equipped for multiple potential situations. Upon clearing subfloor, each group is transported back to lobby and you cannot proceed to next subfloor until all 3 groups have finished.

Basically, require that everyone present is geared and prepared for usage of all their job's options, and make carrying next to impossible. Good luck multiboxing when your characters end up in entirely different areas doing different things.

You guys are describing a worse version of Nyzul. Clearly fun is not top of your objectives.

I firmly believe that anyone who did not enjoy NNI either:
-Was a terrible player.
-Hung out with terrible players.
-Never had a group of 6 real players on voice chat for it.

It was the best content this game has churned out, ever. Fast paced, different every time, rewards skill and coordination.

Farming tokens solo or duo is totally different, it's tedious and the rewards are slow. Doing a 5 order lamp without 5 bodies is the most unpleasant thing possible.

However, I do agree NNI with a good group was a lot of fun in the day.

That's not what I said though, I was referring to a specific piece of content where the ability to enjoy it relies on both yourself and your group being in sync and coordinated. I also made an exception for not having voice chat, or not having access to good players. It only takes one moron to make lamps completely miserable.

Thorny's idea sounds like fun to me.

It also reminds me of so many runs of limbus that I would describe people running with me as chickens with their heads cut off. Still more fun than Sortie...

Even if it was great the community is going to look for ways to circumvent challenges to make it quicker/easier to accomplish

I had a NNI static back in the day.

We ran WAR DRG BLU BLU SCH SCH. Had that nice alternating Diffusion Animating Wail for uhh 5.5 Minute? Haste on entire party. Boss floors we had Embrava and then Diffusion Triumphant Roar. We kicked a lot of ***.

It's too bad it didn't last. But we did get almost all of the sets for our main jobs. Good ole Phorcys.

And then SE nerfed the *** out of Embrava to make it last less time than Tablua Raza (pre-Perpetuance)

Isn't sortie kind of NNI without lamp floors?

I don't see that

Lots of sneak running, warping at lamps/poles, different objectives.

Iirc NNI head a no ceiling while sortie in theory does but from what I read you can't full clear everything in one run.

NNI had random objectives from a limited pool of objectives and ghetto procedurally generated floors while in sortie only NM placement *edit* and exits from basements */edit* seem to be random but the overall amount of different objectives are probably in a similar ballpark?

Sortie doesnt have lamps.




Bro imagine sortie with order lamps on the bosses dictating you kill A B C D in a certain order, then E F G H also in a certain order.

Fujitso, if you reading my guy, you should implement it. It'll go over just as well as enhanced difficulty for having a stage 4 with no additional reward.

I liked NNI but wouldn't call it best. For my Limbus was the "best" content I've ever done. Each area being it's own strategy and having to do them all to then schedule an uber boss run. I guess I just don't like content focused exclusively on fighting a boss in a room. That's a good capstone, but the run up to the boss should also be part of the content and equally rewarding.

I think we should bring back NNI lamps and add some linear algebra for good measure.


When order lamp floors are miserable with just one NPC in party why do some of you think it's a good idea to make alliance content where one parties mishap can outbrake the other two?

Nyzul Isle was peak content for me. Probably started my Rogue-Like addiction, sprinkled with some Gacha gambling thanks to the ??? system.

***was fun, it had its flaws, but I wish more games had good Nyzul isle type content.

Man, powerful was all out Oprahing this thread.


But some of ya'll had to come around the corner with that ToAU endgame jazz, ruining it for the rest of us.

I blame Nickeny.

You forgot:

-Doesn't like random stuff

I despise roguelike games and dungeoncrawlers, I don't like random stuff, especially when you cannot access a map within.
Did a lot of original NNI and was pretty tedious.

Liked New NNI a bit better because of the better rewards. Again, never set foot in there once I capped the sets I needed (and those sets were incredibly good, wow...)

I don't think it's a 'good idea' from the perspective of a game dev. It'd probably be better to make something relatively easy with a lot of upfront rewards so people reactivate to do it, with a really long grind built in. Kind of like sortie, but with fun gameplay.

It's just my personal idea of a great 18 man content. Something that's designed in a way it utilizes a lot of flexibility, discourages multiboxing and botting, and brings back the need to create a group of 18 people who have some idea what they're doing. I don't want to fill out 18 people using NPCs, I want a reason to assemble 18 non-NPCs.

I thought you were a supporting proponent of that type of gameplay