August 2023 Version Update

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2010-09-08
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August 2023 Version Update
 Asura.Daleterrence
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By Asura.Daleterrence 2023-08-09 15:22:56
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Probably just sick of changing it every year so said f it
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 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-08-09 15:34:49
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It's ok Funk. You Fujito'd.

It happens regularly these days. We forgive you and still appreciate you.
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By fillerbunny9 2023-08-09 15:56:31
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Bismarck.Nickeny said: »
Developers threw away the manual on how this game was built and now they are in a constant war between making things work and praying it doesn't break anything in the process...

But, *** SE. They knew this is a mess but lift zero fingers and constantly use it as a crutch as the reason they can't go the distance anymore on anything new

Basically they take our subs, take a bit for server upkeep and use the rest of it to buy fuel for their cars

if only every subscriber was paying for all 8 wardrobes. surely THEN sempai would notice us!
 Odin.Senaki
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By Odin.Senaki 2023-08-09 16:37:44
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fillerbunny9 said: »
Bismarck.Nickeny said: »
Basically they take our subs, take a bit for server upkeep and use the rest of it to buy fuel for their cars

if only every subscriber was paying for all 8 wardrobes. surely THEN sempai would notice us!

Ah, the sunk-cost fallacy.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2023-08-09 17:09:55
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Homsar said: »
Really glad they updated the copyright text. Those are the sort of updates that make giving SE money worthwhile.

That was obviously dictated to them from Legal, it's not like Fujito was thinking "hmmmm, this is what I want to allocate developer resources to this month".

Kinda silly to complain about that. That being said, if they're gonna list it in the update notes I guess that means it's fair game? XD
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By DaneBlood 2023-08-09 17:33:04
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Asura.Iamaman said: »
Changes like that are never as simple as you think they are.

Things are always simple for the simpleminded.
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By Hopalong 2023-08-09 17:34:32
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Except for occum's razor... knife-edge thinking.
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By Reshii 2023-08-09 23:03:10
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Hahaha "tested"

Indeed.

They're literally going to add a hard/normal menu option, that's it. There will be absolutely zero "testing" and a big ol' "sorry" if(WHEN) they manage to *** it up. What game have you been playing the last decade lol.


This is the kind of guy that would push changes to production server Friday end of day, shut his PC down and take a long weekend.

I hope whatever you do for a living is not that important
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2023-08-09 23:09:40
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Literal opposite.

Unless you mean Fujito, then sure. They do that stupid ***.

They'll take 6 weeks to add a yes/no toggle and put it out live untested and then wait a month to fix it.
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By Reshii 2023-08-09 23:20:49
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Right, that's exactly how it works.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2023-08-09 23:24:42
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It is how it works. It's exactly what they always do.

Convoluted ***. Untested. None of them are capable of playing.

"Sorry"

Take entirely too long to fix it.

Do it half assed.

Take another two months.

"Sorry"
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By Reshii 2023-08-09 23:34:13
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I can see this is tripping you up. What I am trying to convey to you is the idea of "it's so easy, the code change will take 5 minutes" is ridiculous. Several others have tried to tell you this but you aren't quite able to grasp it.

They gave themselves a month+ of lead time because that isn't the only thing on their agenda. Making the change and debugging everything could take awhile.

If it's not ready for the September patch, then you can gripe and complain. Personally, I'm just amazed they addressed the issue as soon as they did
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-08-10 03:26:21
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fillerbunny9 said: »
Bismarck.Nickeny said: »
Developers threw away the manual on how this game was built and now they are in a constant war between making things work and praying it doesn't break anything in the process...

But, *** SE. They knew this is a mess but lift zero fingers and constantly use it as a crutch as the reason they can't go the distance anymore on anything new

Basically they take our subs, take a bit for server upkeep and use the rest of it to buy fuel for their cars

if only every subscriber was paying for all 8 wardrobes. surely THEN sempai would notice us!
Why do I feel personally attacked by this lol leave me and my 8 wardrobes alone we paypigs have feelings!
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By Dodik 2023-08-10 04:33:14
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Reshii said: »
This is the kind of guy that would push changes to production server Friday end of day, shut his PC down and take a long weekend.

It was a two week vacation actually and I regret nothing.
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 Bahamut.Bizarro
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By Bahamut.Bizarro 2023-08-10 22:01:16
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DIdnt see it mentioned, anyone have the kparse memloc?
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By Homsar 2023-08-11 02:17:09
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
if they're gonna list it in the update notes I guess that means it's fair game?

That's the only reason I bring it up, really. It's such a dumb thing to talk about in terms of an update.
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By Tarage 2023-08-11 02:33:21
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It's both amusing and infuriating to watch people who have zero professional coding experience claim that a change is "just flip a 0 to a 1". You fundamentally don't understand programming and need to shut up.
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 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2023-08-11 03:37:37
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Tarage said: »
It's both amusing and infuriating to watch people who have zero professional coding experience claim that a change is "just flip a 0 to a 1". You fundamentally don't understand programming and need to shut up.

While it's fair to say it's more complex than simply flipping a 1 to a 0, it is the case that all is needed is a boolean check for either quest progress or the S4 primes, then offer an option to have it on or off.

So it was oversimplified, but not completely off-base.

I say that because both the normal and hard versions of the encounter already exist, the question remains to be answered if they will do something more complex than having you select a difficulty at the start of the Sortie; as if that's their solution it probably could have been achieved comfortably in a two-week timespan, even by a single programmer, assuming it's a professional (with necessary privs) and not just some guy from the broom closet.

There are loads of other battlefields and instances they could borrow code from, and let's not pretend for a second that they don't do that.
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By Tarage 2023-08-11 03:57:09
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Asura.Byrne said: »
Tarage said: »
It's both amusing and infuriating to watch people who have zero professional coding experience claim that a change is "just flip a 0 to a 1". You fundamentally don't understand programming and need to shut up.

While it's fair to say it's more complex than simply flipping a 1 to a 0, it is the case that all is needed is a boolean check for either quest progress or the S4 primes, then offer an option to have it on or off.

So it was oversimplified, but not completely off-base.

I say that because both the normal and hard versions of the encounter already exist, the question remains to be answered if they will do something more complex than having you select a difficulty at the start of the Sortie; as if that's their solution it probably could have been achieved comfortably in a two-week timespan, even by a single programmer, assuming it's a professional (with necessary privs) and not just some guy from the broom closet.

There are loads of other battlefields and instances they could borrow code from, and let's not pretend for a second that they don't do that.

You are assuming this based on never seeing the code. The variable might be hardcoded, or referenced in multiple places. Or rely on network calls that would override the variable, if it even is one.

Without seeing the actual code it is impossible to tell how complicated the fix is. Stop talking about things you have never done.

I will give you a concrete example. I worked on Minecraft for a while last year. Beacons can shoot a light beam into the sky that can have its color changed if a glass block is placed above it. A solid blick deletes the beam. I wanted to see how hard it would be to make light pass through the tinted glass blick which is marked in game files to be translucent but acted like an opaque block. Turns out the list of blocks able to have the beam pass through was hardcoded in the function for building the beam. Changing it was not a simple fix, which explains why they never fixed it. You cannot know how much work needs to happen to fix something unless you can actually look at the code, or modify the code. Period.
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By Afania 2023-08-11 04:37:27
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Asura.Byrne said: »
as if that's their solution it probably could have been achieved comfortably in a two-week timespan,

I would like to add that even if something that can be achieved in a two week timespan as an individual, in general it will take much longer in a big company.

As an individual when you want to do something you simply sit down and do something.

In a big company when you want to do anything, it would probably be more like the you go discuss with your team first then discuss with PM, have PM approve the budget, submit the budget to finance department and any other department involved, then the finance department will get approval from upper management, then they'll let the PM know so people can finally start doing the work.

After the work is done they still need to QA and notify community rep to discuss how to communicate with the playerbase etc. So that takes time too.

You also never know if those staff has other tasks to do before dealing with this task, or how much time do higher priority tasks need. Maybe they start the task a week or two later, you never know.

So I am not surprised that a 2 week task that can be done by a single individual ended up needing a month to accomplish in a big company.

Essentially using personal work experience to estimate actual time investment in a big company for anything will be difficult unless you actually know how this company works internally from a higher pov.
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By Tarage 2023-08-11 05:47:41
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Afania is correct, that is the other half of the equation I didn't bother writing about. Combine the two and you understand why changes, even seemingly small ones, take longer than you think they should.

Actually, there is a third aspect: hardware and compile time. This is old outdated PS2 tech. It might take a day just to fully compile the engine, let alone deploy and test.
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 Ragnarok.Creaucent
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By Ragnarok.Creaucent 2023-08-11 06:24:31
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Apart from the fact its not a bug or a glitch and its working as intended so its not an absolute priority. Its more that the player base has gotten so used to not dealing with mechanics and cheesing things they don't know how to do a real fight.

It was a nice attempt from the devs to give the fights some form of difficulty but they underestimated the player bases need for a carrot for them to bother with the fights. Give twice, three or even four times the muffin amount and the player base will be down for doing the harder fights.

Be glad they are nerfing the fights back to the snoozefest that they originally were.
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 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2023-08-11 07:13:18
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
But whatever, just keep letting them slide. It's your 12.95
Says the guy giving SE 20 grand a month for all his RMT characters.


Haha
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2023-08-11 08:03:31
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Every dollar I spend comes back 10(+) fold

No matter how many dollars you spend, you'll never get tastier shoe polish.
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By GetHelpNerd 2023-08-11 08:11:28
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i don't really want to get into it...

but for any aspiring RMTs, he's very unlikely making tensfold in this market. prices and demand are at an all time low and prices in game have not come up much.

its a buyers market tho!
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 Odin.Senaki
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By Odin.Senaki 2023-08-11 12:35:41
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Every dollar I spend comes back 10(+) fold.

Am I out of the loop or something? Is Eiryl actually RMT?
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By Lili 2023-08-11 15:04:57
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Asura.Byrne said: »
it probably could have been achieved comfortably in a two-week timespan, even by a single programmer

It is very likely that FFXI no longer has any developer assigned mainly to it. In which case it might just be a case of "we reserved some dev time but they only gave us a single dev at the end of August".
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2023-08-11 15:29:07
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Lili said: »
Asura.Byrne said: »
it probably could have been achieved comfortably in a two-week timespan, even by a single programmer

It is very likely that FFXI no longer has any developer assigned mainly to it. In which case it might just be a case of "we reserved some dev time but they only gave us a single dev at the end of August".

It's more like they have X number of hours per week/month they can devote to FFXI, while having to devote the rest to a variety of other projects.

Whenever something is suggested, the next question is "how many hours is that expected to take", then they add in testing time and if that value is too much, they'll shelf that idea. Its why we usually only get token adjustments month to month, they are saving most of their allocated hours for bigger stuff.
 Fenrir.Richybear
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By Fenrir.Richybear 2023-08-11 16:25:41
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Odin.Senaki said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Every dollar I spend comes back 10(+) fold.

Am I out of the loop or something? Is Eiryl actually RMT?

Wait til he finds out that Cid deals with airships!
Kidding aside, I thought that was super common knowledge though.
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 Bahamut.Celebrindal
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-08-11 16:37:23
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Odin.Senaki said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Every dollar I spend comes back 10(+) fold.

Am I out of the loop or something? Is Eiryl actually RMT?

Nah he just sells bridges in Manhattan.
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