Stage 4 Prime Weapon's Effect On Sortie |
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Stage 4 Prime Weapon's effect on Sortie
Dodik said: » If prime weapons weren't good no one would bother with Sortie. Can say the same about Nyzul and the entire mythic process. The carrot is what keeps you doing it. Shame it's so not fun. is the carrot worth it when they keep hitting you in the nuts with the stick?
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Asura.Frod said: » Dodik said: » If prime weapons weren't good no one would bother with Sortie. Can say the same about Nyzul and the entire mythic process. The carrot is what keeps you doing it. Shame it's so not fun. is the carrot worth it when they keep hitting you in the nuts with the stick? You know, people pay a helluva lot more then a FFXI sub to have that done to them.
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So I'm thinking a drk could prolly get magic dmg to 0 for occult on hard mode aminon. Also if they add 25% dt it might make them take 0 from all magic making it very safe to occult acumen for lots of tp.
Fenrir.Ahlen said: » So I'm thinking a drk could prolly get magic dmg to 0 for occult on hard mode aminon. Also if they add 25% dt it might make them take 0 from all magic making it very safe to occult acumen for lots of tp. Fenrir.Svens said: » Given Fujito's hint, I honestly wonder what the intended method is supposed to be for Aminon given it's 90% MDT while earrings are active along with the added 25% DT starting next month. "Just stagger him with magic btw all your magic do 0 dmg". Also, after reading long_horned's information on twitter where FIFTEEN nukes are required to red proc him after seven sets of fetter spawns before bane goes off, no wonder we just go straight to cheese because *** that. Chance that new 25%DT will be additive with 90%MDT from rings is pretty small. Most likely it will be 1-(0.1*0.75)=92.5%DT Asura.Frod said: » is the carrot worth it when they keep hitting you in the nuts with the stick? That's just an added bonus. SimonSes said: » Fenrir.Ahlen said: » So I'm thinking a drk could prolly get magic dmg to 0 for occult on hard mode aminon. Also if they add 25% dt it might make them take 0 from all magic making it very safe to occult acumen for lots of tp. Fenrir.Svens said: » Given Fujito's hint, I honestly wonder what the intended method is supposed to be for Aminon given it's 90% MDT while earrings are active along with the added 25% DT starting next month. "Just stagger him with magic btw all your magic do 0 dmg". Also, after reading long_horned's information on twitter where FIFTEEN nukes are required to red proc him after seven sets of fetter spawns before bane goes off, no wonder we just go straight to cheese because *** that. Chance that new 25%DT will be additive with 90%MDT from rings is pretty small. Most likely it will be 1-(0.1*0.75)=92.5%DT
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Fenrir.Ahlen said: » But I still think its possible to do 0 dmg spells without 100% mdt. Interesting idea, but how would you refresh mp on DRK? Origin is good for it, but you would probably floor Aminon mp pretty fast with it, unless he has some massive refresh or something (but I doubt it has, because I heard mages setup was able to Aspir it all in some cases). You can't really have much refresh songs/rolls, because you need melee ones to do damage. Edit: I guess you could use Entropy from time to time. I guess it could work on paper. SimonSes said: » Origin is good for it, but you would probably floor Aminon mp pretty fast with it I thought Origin wasn't a drain effect, but a convert damage effect? Asura.Frod said: » Dodik said: » If prime weapons weren't good no one would bother with Sortie. Can say the same about Nyzul and the entire mythic process. The carrot is what keeps you doing it. Shame it's so not fun. is the carrot worth it when they keep hitting you in the nuts with the stick? I believe some would for the hit in the nuts alone. And enjoy it Lili said: » SimonSes said: » Origin is good for it, but you would probably floor Aminon mp pretty fast with it I thought Origin wasn't a drain effect, but a convert damage effect? It's an Aspir effect. It was tested by Deadlypanda outside of Sortie with stage 4 and he was able to floor MP on some Omen bosses with Origin.
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SimonSes said: » Lili said: » I thought Origin wasn't a drain effect, but a convert damage effect? It's an Aspir effect. It was tested by Deadlypanda outside of Sortie with stage 4 and he was able to floor MP on some Omen bosses with Origin. That just about neuters those bosses. Talk about OP weaponskill...! SimonSes said: » Fenrir.Ahlen said: » But I still think its possible to do 0 dmg spells without 100% mdt. Interesting idea, but how would you refresh mp on DRK? Origin is good for it, but you would probably floor Aminon mp pretty fast with it, unless he has some massive refresh or something (but I doubt it has, because I heard mages setup was able to Aspir it all in some cases). You can't really have much refresh songs/rolls, because you need melee ones to do damage. Edit: I guess you could use Entropy from time to time. I guess it could work on paper. Fenrir.Ahlen said: » SimonSes said: » Fenrir.Ahlen said: » But I still think its possible to do 0 dmg spells without 100% mdt. Interesting idea, but how would you refresh mp on DRK? Origin is good for it, but you would probably floor Aminon mp pretty fast with it, unless he has some massive refresh or something (but I doubt it has, because I heard mages setup was able to Aspir it all in some cases). You can't really have much refresh songs/rolls, because you need melee ones to do damage. Edit: I guess you could use Entropy from time to time. I guess it could work on paper. It's definitely something worth considering, but I'm not sure if 0 DMG is required here. Just cast impact. It has massive mp cost and will give you tons of TP and with some subtle blow feeding like just 80TP shouldn't be an issue. Recast isn't great, but it definitely would make a good tool in the kit for that idea.
SimonSes said: » Fenrir.Ahlen said: » SimonSes said: » Fenrir.Ahlen said: » But I still think its possible to do 0 dmg spells without 100% mdt. Interesting idea, but how would you refresh mp on DRK? Origin is good for it, but you would probably floor Aminon mp pretty fast with it, unless he has some massive refresh or something (but I doubt it has, because I heard mages setup was able to Aspir it all in some cases). You can't really have much refresh songs/rolls, because you need melee ones to do damage. Edit: I guess you could use Entropy from time to time. I guess it could work on paper. It's definitely something worth considering, but I'm not sure if 0 DMG is required here. Just cast impact. It has massive mp cost and will give you tons of TP and with some subtle blow feeding like just 80TP shouldn't be an issue. Yup. We worked extra Impacts into our last run for TP and it was effective. We're down to roughly 25 min for the Aminon enraged fight starting from pull.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » Yup. We worked extra Impacts into our last run for TP and it was effective. We're down to roughly 25 min for the Aminon enraged fight starting from pull. Nice, so regular mortals will do it in 35 and even with 25%DT it should be 33% longer, so around 46min. If you can do it in 25, shouldn't you simply ignore playing around with his modes at start and applying Ooze and Distract and simply do Stymie Distract III, then SV songs when it wears off? Unless doesn't ignore it, but change songs (drop one madrigal) and apply Stymie Distract after first Distract wears off. Maybe you have done that already? I guess for some less optimal groups it might be another fight that will depend on luck with Wild Card. Just start with Stymie Distract, SV 2nd set of songs and do WC, if you reset both BRD and RDM, you can have Stymie Distract III with full potency up for entire fight, since one should lasts like 17min (unless Stymie doesn't force spell being completely unresisted and it's only half duration?). Correct me if im wrong. Bahamut.Ravael said: » SimonSes said: » Fenrir.Ahlen said: » SimonSes said: » Fenrir.Ahlen said: » But I still think its possible to do 0 dmg spells without 100% mdt. Interesting idea, but how would you refresh mp on DRK? Origin is good for it, but you would probably floor Aminon mp pretty fast with it, unless he has some massive refresh or something (but I doubt it has, because I heard mages setup was able to Aspir it all in some cases). You can't really have much refresh songs/rolls, because you need melee ones to do damage. Edit: I guess you could use Entropy from time to time. I guess it could work on paper. It's definitely something worth considering, but I'm not sure if 0 DMG is required here. Just cast impact. It has massive mp cost and will give you tons of TP and with some subtle blow feeding like just 80TP shouldn't be an issue. Yup. We worked extra Impacts into our last run for TP and it was effective. We're down to roughly 25 min for the Aminon enraged fight starting from pull. Fenrir.Ahlen said: » is it possible to just use 2 drk and remove bst? or does absorb tp not work when he changes weaknesses during first part of fight? I don't think they tried, but it should be possible. BST only really absorb like 400-600TP every 30 sec. The BST could also be doing 10% damage (if the modes are available), giving -33% defense, and adding other utility as well, and their moves feed the mob 0 TP, whereas adding another DRK will feed some (nominal) amount of TP.
Still worth potentially trying, but it sounds like the BST isn't there solely for the TP Drainkiss Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Still worth potentially trying, but it sounds like the BST isn't there solely for the TP Drainkiss You cant do both -33%def and TP drainkiss. That def down has low duration, you cant juggle pets that fast. BST in their composition is doing 10%HP, box step from /dnc and Blitz WS (getting TP from regain). Problem with 10%HP is that they need to force certain element mode to land it, so you might potentially lose time for that. Blitz is pretty strong WS with Ikenga's Axe offhand. Whole point is not to necessarily find something better than BST though, but to find alternative for people who doesn't have geared BST in group (or they have, but it's also only person having some other required job). Second DRK should in theory be able to do what BST does, absorbs TP and use WSs. getting close
 scythe, great axe, h2h or shield? Ragnarok.Primex said: » getting close scythe, great axe, h2h or shield? I'm leaning towards scythe because Origin WS is the only prime WS with an additional effect of absorbing HP and MP. Shield is tempting, but would need to block rate samples on mobs facing you across 0-180 degrees.
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Felgarr said: » Shield is tempting, but would need to block rate samples on mobs facing you across 0-180 degrees. I'm not sure what you mean by this? Like, are you asking if a mob at 170 degrees has a lower block rate or something? This is not a thing, regardless of shield. As far as Duban's block rate, it is already well-documented. If you don't need the MDT II from Aegis or the MP recovery from Ochain, you want to use a Duban. It is the best shield in the game for blocking physical damage. ok so great sword i guess.
I mean, why bother locking your decision in until stage 4 where you can use it outside of Sortie anyway? If you're in the camp of just now nearing stage 3, then let the more committed players get the full extent of testing done before you make an educated decision. At that pace it'll take another year or so anyway to get the remaining 7.5m galli. No shade, I just dont see the benefit of using a stage 3 in Sortie other than for fun, or if you were one of the pioneers.
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Stage 3 prime weapons are great in Sortie, we've been making great use of them for the past several months, definitely worth upgrading and using while you farm muffins. Shield is also useable everywhere, and very capable at stage 3.
Few more notes on Enraged Aminon now that we've done him a few more times:
-Letting him TP a few times to get Distract/Ooze on really doesn't take that long. While Void is up, 90% of his TP moves are fetter spawning ones that change his state. 2/6 of them (Torrential Pain, Demonfire) let you land Ooze, 2/6 of them (Blast of Reticence, Frozen Blood) let you land Distract. It only ever takes a couple minutes at most unless you're REALLY unlucky. -Using Stymie at the beginning isn't recommended. Letting him TP is not very threatening at the beginning unless you don't have Seal, it shouldn't take very long to get Distract on this way, and if Distract does half-resist (this is possible, even with Stymie) you can be in a bad spot if COR has poor luck with WC/Cutting. Having to cycle TP moves to get Distract on is a LOT more painful at 20% than at 100%, the fetters will cover the entire arena. -RDM and DRK can indeed use Occult Acumen to get extra TP, but I'd only ever use it with Impact. I'm not sure if it's something with Aminon specifically or Gaol TP suppression just has me biased, but he can get 1000 TP VERY quickly from just a couple of hits. Casting Impact for TP is definitely worth for both RDM and DRK, though - RDM gets about 900~950 TP, DRK can get over 2k with good sets. RDM could get more if you were ML45+ (Occult Acumen II trait from /DRK). DRK can get MP back with Origin and RDM has Convert, but otherwise both jobs are stuck with Aspir and Refresh to get MP back. Origin doesn't seem to fully drain Aminon's MP even if it's used the entire fight. -Speaking of RDM...I was originally using Mercy Stroke under the assumption that, since I was 1-handed and nowhere near attack capped, it would win over Black Halo. Nope. Just use Black Halo. -Two DRKs can probably work over DRK+BST, but again, he can get TP very fast. Sometimes Drainkiss is removing 700-800+ TP at once even with two people using Absorb-TP on cooldown. I don't know if it would be any faster, or by how much. -Current Mesosiderite drop rate: 2/6. All but (maybe?) the first were with TH4. Our latest kill was 21 minutes from pull to victory, with him TPing zero times after the initial debuffs. With the extra time, we've been doing ACEG bosses as well. For E and G, since there's no real healer and Triboulex is still enraged, the RUN takes a minute to spike hate then kites with Gravity II on while everyone else (with Dirge) beats on it. Slower than normal strategies, but it's functional. Gartell and Aita would probably end very badly until their enrages are removed.
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: » Stage 3 prime weapons are great in Sortie, we've been making great use of them for the past several months, definitely worth upgrading and using while you farm muffins. Shield is also useable everywhere, and very capable at stage 3. I could just be ignorant, but it just seems like a hard sell to me. Maybe the following?: Shield is obviously always good. Horn might be worth? Maybe someone can break down the maths better for me, but from my understanding Stage 3+ Neck is 19% PDL. Does 19% PDL on top tier content where you're not likely attack capped beat out on an additional Minuet or Herc Etude? Scythe seems to have alot of merit for Origin specifically, Staff seems like an alt Empy option for BLM. Otherwise from the #'s I've been seeing posted the stage 3 prime melee weapons seem to do average damage to what we already have damage, or less in some cases like the Sword and Dagger. If I were to make a melee prime other than scythe, I'd feel more comfortable seeing how the tier 5's shape up before locking myself in. My static like most isn't nearly as strong as people like Mischief. We average 40-46k a run and don't run every day of the week.
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The 2h weapons seem to be stronger at stage3 with the prime WS than the strongest available weapons of their type.
Mumei on GKT hits harder than Fudo in Sortie at stage3 with or without buffs, so regardless if PDL is in play. With PDL and capped attack, a lot harder and more consistent. Aria adds a lot when attack capped. So really depends if you do a lot of melee Sortie, what jobs you play most and so forth. If you know which weapon you are getting, it's already stronger at stage3 and you do a lot of melee sortie, why not get it? I disagree that it's Scythe or gtfo, that's simplistic. Origin is great but so are all the other 2h prime WS.
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