Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Dont want to further derail the thread but just for confirmation sake and not pulling numbers out of memory, just ran Sheol C. Regular party (DRG WAR COR BRD PLD SCH). Full Clear.
Touched Floor 2 conflux @ 23:20.
Touched Floor 3 conflux @ 20:16.
SV + Embrava on 2nd pack of mobs, while I re-rolled. Paladin was holding Agon so he didnt go down (or forgot to), so we had to waste time all running down. He did however pull the up ramp.
Touched Floor 4 conflux @ 12:34.
SV + Embrava again due to WC on the 3rd family on floor 4.
Touched Exit @5:58. All Izzat Spent.

Ghosts, Clots, Qutrubs. No Skeles/Draugers. Only 1 Bird (BAT) for me to hot shot.

Nothing unreasonable... other than maybe the 2nd soul voice, but in a perfect run that would happen plus many better variables than I had this run. Also no bolters, and no one was speed hacking... if anything the PLD was a little slow/careful? And had we had a bard tank/puller we'd have 1 more DD to shred with.

This isnt to put down any1 who does 10k, 11k or w/e. I'm just following up on the claim that my original statements were ***....

EDIT: Kinda misconstrued the response where *** was claimed. That was moreso to "can it be done in 10" rather than my times, however K123 was more like "doubt" and "nah" to aspects of it. The way I see it having to run down as a group because the pally didnt drag it up for us cost us easily a minute or 2, back n forth, plus the slash resist families were early on slowing us (slightly). SV at the start might have sped things up also. I still think its possible without speed cheats, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.

That being said, I'd say it's likely not that bad to do the full clear without any addons, gearswap etc, but you'd have to have a lucky run and you'd probably have less than a minute on the clock as opposed to 5+

When was the last time you guys actually did Sheol C? ;P

There is no sets on the top of floor 2 and assuming you count Agons as 4th set, it's not 40 mobs, but 36.

like 10 minutes ago LOL

I was including the Agon. I never sat down and counted the mobs per pack, I just always thought it was 10 per... (whoops?)

Oh yeah, my bad. Just thinking of the 2 sets on f3 then.

Still, happy to see a video of no speedhax full clear sub 25 mins. I'm gonna go on a hunch and say the JP BRD in my run was not playing legit.

Sub 25 isn't that hard. I've definitely done ~24 minute clears with no speed hacks, no tank, and no pulling. Just 5 of us running around murdering everything. The whole team goes up/down every set of stairs together.

Shaving an extra 5 minutes off that though? IDK. Maybe 20 minute run (10 minutes remaining) is possible, but I think that is REALLY approaching the limit. IDK about 18 minute run, I have my doubts

Of course Aria really helps here! Not sure how much difference the prime weapons make since most of those jobs already have weapons capable of 1-shotting Sheol C mobs. It also doesn't help that Sheol C specifically requires you to change damage types so regularly, so a prime really isn't going to get nearly as much use.

None of the top performers in Asura use Tako in segfarm. Saevel's group, for example, doesn't use it.

The JP group that did the 18min clear is actually vanilla. Bippin-Amana-Kingalka group had been doing ~7min left clears even before Sortie came out.

People shouting "speed hack" every time someone outperforms just haven't come across outstanding players yet.

I notices Aria only really helping clear speed when the used on anything that has enough HP that the 2nd hit of Savage Blade can do damage (Agon mobs and NMs)

Eh, no, because kill speed means nothing. We are talking about physical limitations on ability to get around here.

Since this is oh so commonplace, waiting for videos :) When it never comes, speaks for itself.

To be fair most speed runners and people who clear too fast use Taco, iv seen it lol.

Sheol C really isn't that large, the biggest time suck for movement are the stairs and IMO they are really only a "problem" on the first and 3rd floor, moreso the 3rd floor. The puller should be doing most of the movement to keep everyone engaged and making small/gradual movements towards the exit. Using legitimate movement speed gear cuts the time up the stairs a lot. DDs and the BRD should be capable of pulling while the tank, if you run one, gets the further groups. The amount of time DDs spend disengaged running should be minimal.

It slows down if the halo is in the wrong place or with certain mob types, I try to stick around for mobs that don't sleep or certain mob types that tend to murder the BRD, but time moving isn't the issue. It's coordination between players, which is why this never happens in PUGs regardless of gear. Knowing where the puller is going to bring mobs, depending on the BRD To sleep quickly, knowing who is getting what group and taking them where, all of that cuts down disengagement time and prevents unnecessary movement.

“Asurans dont cheat”

I'm open minded, I just want to see a video. There are a dozen videos on YouTube for every interesting thing done a new way or fast for the last decade in FFXI, conveniently no 20min full Odyssey Sheol C clears haha

Yeah man no one is making videos and everyone BUT Maletaru is a some level of cheater. Because lots of segment runs have been done, the personal bests of people who are very good at them look impossible to people who are less skilled/experienced/lucky/good at cheating. Again no videos required to back up anyone's claims since none of this is showing off why Prime Weapons make you segment gods. This is isn't rocket science.

Please move on to another topic to discuss this since we aren't even remotely discussing the niche strengths of Prime Weapons.

What don't we know about Prime Weapons at this stage?

I wish you guys all the luck on making your primes. I will never make one unless they change the current method but I do enjoy reading about it, the testing, and the current strats on how you guys handle Sortie.

regarding cheating, Just do it. Send a video to Maletaru so he can call you a cheater because your 69th sortie you decided to use anchor

It will be a long while before I am stage 5 Laphria but I just want to glow blurple at this point, best glowy ever! lol

All hail the blurple barney kings... XD

What we don't know that we don't know, obviously. Hey look at how janky they coded this! Wow this is perfect for X. This doesn't work the way I thought it would.

Also no one is dumb enough to post a video so you can report them for cheating.

But noone is flee hacking in 18min full clears bro

A lot of the Primes do not have documented WS data so far. Even popular ones like Opashoro. That is what we don't know about primes atm.

Tbh we don't know anything 100%
Most WSCs are based on spread of damage that is not exactly 5% apart, so there was some guess work involved. Afaik we don't know exact chance of ODD on stage 4 and ODT on stage 5, but we assume 30%.

How are these not known when so many are out there already?

because it takes more time than it's worth to get the necessary data sets for 99.99% of people and for the rest there just isn't enough time in the day. it isn't like it used to be where people wanted to know these things for the sake of knowing, most couldn't care less about whether their WS has a 50% or 55% STR WSC. having a value within a good confidence interval (where difference in calculable dmg is 1% or less difference) is good enough anyway

oh yeah, they obviously are. why are you stuck on something so obvious?

This thread is getting better by the page ?

- I thought it was about prime

- I thought my emotions were bad

- doubt you can hit full clear under 27 min, I know we didn’t and clear this ***daily, at most a min, ah that was the time

- not sure about prime, don’t do much sortie, actually loss all my friends to it so I’m allergic to it

- my pocket WAR, 1 trick pony hot constantly 7-8M in C, haven’t seen a prime dude do that yet

- and keep insulting each other, the only thing left that is spicy ?

- ah yes the prime, I have no idea

This right here. As an individual who took the time to provide about 50 samples of each tp value with and without fotia and then further samples of individual stat increases for wsc. It is very time consuming and that wasn't even a large sample size. This still had a margin of error at some values but was considered minimal and "close" enough without increasing the sample size even further. Took me quite a few days of my personal time when I could play just smashing rabbits like a nerd lol.

Not quite sub-25, but we *** up a whole bunch of times so...not at all outside the realm of possibility (we've done much better). Had some somewhat shitty packs/halos too. See any speedhacks that I missed?

ODD and OTD rate would be way easier to work out than modifier and WSC though

I got 2400 from end on full clear, why would this vary? Do chests popped change that?
Surprised you managed that in 25.5mins with as slow as the melee seemed and your healer makes my a-hole twitch

They popped many chests after they clicked the vortex, so they didn't get bonus +25% points for them.