Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Language: JP EN DE FR
2010-09-08
New Items
users online
Forum » FFXI » General » Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
First Page 2 3 4 5 ... 75 76 77
 Ramuh.Austar
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Austar
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2023-06-15 00:29:37
Link | Quote | Reply
 
that doesn't tell us ***. for all we know that 55K could have been a TA or QA proc
[+]
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-06-15 01:15:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Will need samples but it is the right idea for the test. Would help if tp returns were recorded
 Carbuncle.Samuraiking
Offline
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: bossgalka
Posts: 167
By Carbuncle.Samuraiking 2023-06-15 01:41:09
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Bynebill said: »
The most useful test I saw on velner's stream with Gsword was a 3k spinning slash done twice on the same mob, Once with prime aftermath and once without.

Without was 33k damage, With aftermath was 55k. the only difference being the Lvl3 aftermath.

Granted 1 WS under each condition is not nearly enough of a sample but it was a pretty drastic difference.

Maybe simon or someone else can let us know how much PDL it would take to make a 33k spinning slash deal 55k instead, all other factors being the same. Seems like it would take an absurd amount of PDL to boost the damage that much, Spinning slash does have 50% attack power mod tho.

To add to this, was talking to him on his stream a bit and asking him about it. He said the actual Gsword WS was doing something like 60k-97k ON Triboulex. Not a top lizard boss like the Scythe, but on an actual basement boss. It looks sick. Maybe Scythe can also match that on the Trib, but the Gsword definitely can. That being said, the healing... I'm leaning to Scythe atm.
 Asura.Bynebill
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Autocast
Posts: 160
By Asura.Bynebill 2023-06-15 01:44:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Didn't catch the tp return values, Maybe he saves his vods and can check when I'm sure he posts his info.

Entirely possible it was a DA, very unlikely but possible it was a QA. (don't think drk ws in any TA gear no? just DA from some nyame and QA if using niqmaddu).

As with everyone else posting their stage3 experiences its mostly just random uses throughout a normal run so hard to come by any controlled testing (not blaming them or anything).

Figured I would post it for possible hint at values rather than as concrete data.
 Fenrir.Ahlen
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Ahlen
Posts: 261
By Fenrir.Ahlen 2023-06-15 01:48:34
Link | Quote | Reply
 
my cor got a 90k savage on trib with soulvoice new songs at attack cap
[+]
 Asura.Bynebill
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Autocast
Posts: 160
By Asura.Bynebill 2023-06-15 01:55:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
my cor got a 90k savage on trib with soulvoice new songs at attack cap

Assume it was at 3k(obviously)? Gear/stats would be helpful. 90k seems to of gotten quite the boost from song.
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-06-15 02:02:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
90k would be huge yes. Like a 30-50% increase in dmg for an average cor savage
[+]
 Fenrir.Ahlen
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Ahlen
Posts: 261
By Fenrir.Ahlen 2023-06-15 02:11:42
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Bynebill said: »
Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
my cor got a 90k savage on trib with soulvoice new songs at attack cap

Assume it was at 3k(obviously)? Gear/stats would be helpful. 90k seems to of gotten quite the boost from song.
r25 nyame + empy hands +3 sailfi belt jse neck ishvara / moonshade pdl vr ring / sroda ring
mlvl 50
mithra
boost str no etudes I was surely attack capped with bolster frailty / fury armor break dia 3 chaos roll war warcry
I had 436 str 320 mnd 67% ws dmg gear 13% pdl
used naegling + demersal degan +1
This was at 3k tp and wasn't walled because it was first savage on him. Also I sub nin so I had pdl trait
[+]
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2023-06-15 02:20:41
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | Quote | Reply
 
Post deleted by User.
 Asura.Bynebill
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Autocast
Posts: 160
By Asura.Bynebill 2023-06-15 02:26:54
Link | Quote | Reply
 
KujahFoxfire said: »
The aftermath is applied to the applying WS, similar to mythics, so both WS will have had the PDL.

The ws I was referencing was spinning slash, not the prime ws. So it can be used with aftermath down, but like said above without exact tp values cant tell if its all PDL as the cause of the difference or (likely) a multi hit proc in addition to any PDL boost.
 Fenrir.Velner
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Velner
Posts: 429
By Fenrir.Velner 2023-06-15 02:36:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
So we didn't do proper testing tonight because we're focused on full clearing the zone. But here are some numbers from the bosses that are kind of crazy. These bosses all are 2 hour songs (Aita is 2x Minuet, 2x March, 1x Madrgal; others are 3x Minuet, 1x Madrigal, 1x Honor March) with Chaos/Sam roll. Aita has Dia III and Box Step and the others have Armor Break/Dia III/Box Step. We don't use GEO so no Fury/Frailty.

For reference, I never hit 70k+ with Torcleaver (66k is about the highest) and on Gartell I usually use Anguta where Cross Reaper tops out at around 55-60k (with occasional 70ks)

I know this isn't proper testing but my preliminary experience tells me these Weapons/Weaponskills absolutely clap.

[+]
 Asura.Bynebill
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Autocast
Posts: 160
By Asura.Bynebill 2023-06-15 03:07:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
90k would be huge yes. Like a 30-50% increase in dmg for an average cor savage

Wouldn't it take around a 5.5pdif cap for a cor with his stats to hit a 90k savage blade? I probably greatly messed up my math but it seems like it would take a considerably amount.

Fairly likely that soulvoice is doubling the amount of PDL the song gives but would still have to be giving around .9-1.0 PDL just at base +6 song.

I'm sure someone actually capable of doing math can correct this of course.

Suppose the more likely is it was a 1-2? additional hits which would bring it down to requiring around 5.0 pdif? which would make the song maybe closer to .7ish PDL being doubled by soulvoice?
 Fenrir.Ahlen
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Ahlen
Posts: 261
By Fenrir.Ahlen 2023-06-15 03:27:52
Link | Quote | Reply
 
It wasn't like all my savages / black halos ect instantly became 90ks but I did see a considerable increase in averages maybe 15% more?
Offline
Posts: 319
By zixxer 2023-06-15 03:34:07
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Anyone planning or got the gaxe by chance?
[+]
 Lakshmi.Ryanx
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: ryanx
Posts: 712
By Lakshmi.Ryanx 2023-06-15 03:41:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Disclai said: »
Aramith9 posted a video using the scythe against A boss:

YouTube Video Placeholder
f**king hell I loved my apocalypse but now I see a new toy. looks like it does higher damage then catastrophy and does light instead of darkness....
[+]
 Sylph.Reain
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: dmregm
Posts: 404
By Sylph.Reain 2023-06-15 03:44:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Bynebill said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
90k would be huge yes. Like a 30-50% increase in dmg for an average cor savage

Wouldn't it take around a 5.5pdif cap for a cor with his stats to hit a 90k savage blade? I probably greatly messed up my math but it seems like it would take a considerably amount.

Fairly likely that soulvoice is doubling the amount of PDL the song gives but would still have to be giving around .9-1.0 PDL just at base +6 song.

I'm sure someone actually capable of doing math can correct this of course.

Square-Enix talked about Aria of Passion in their Freshly Picked.

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/51608/dev-tracker-discussion/380/#3664112

Quote:
Aria of Passion:


- Effect value for physical damage limit is 1-5%, varies by skill.
- Effect time 120 seconds.
[+]
 Fenrir.Velner
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Velner
Posts: 429
By Fenrir.Velner 2023-06-15 03:46:06
Link | Quote | Reply
 
zixxer said: »
Anyone planning or got the gaxe by chance?

I'll have one on my alt in about 4 days.
[+]
 Asura.Bynebill
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Autocast
Posts: 160
By Asura.Bynebill 2023-06-15 03:48:04
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
Square-Enix talked about Aria of Passion in their Freshly Picked.

Is it possible they meant .1 to .5 and not 0.01 to .05? .05 seems incredibly low for a spell slot, let alone one that takes a good bit of time to gain access to. Seems like it would be impossible for it to boost a savage to 90k if it gave that little.

Stage3 with neck is +5 song to boost it further I guess.
Offline
Posts: 9079
By SimonSes 2023-06-15 04:13:15
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Bynebill said: »
Quote:
Square-Enix talked about Aria of Passion in their Freshly Picked.

Is it possible they meant .1 to .5 and not 0.01 to .05? .05 seems incredibly low for a spell slot, let alone one that takes a good bit of time to gain access to. Seems like it would be impossible for it to boost a savage to 90k if it gave that little.

Stage3 with neck is +6 song to boost it further I guess.

You confuse PDL trait with PDL on gear (and this song)

PDL trait is +0.1 pdif cap for each tier, but PDL on gear is simply a % multiplier to pdif cap.

So stage 3 flute with +2 songs and +3 skill from whistle is probably +10%PDL (5%base and +1% per each +1song) and SoulVoiced it's probably +20%.

COR/NIN has 3.35pdif cap on Sword. So song alone would take you to 4.02 No idea if he was using other pdl gear available to cor that fits Savage set, like Sroda Ring and Ephramad ring and Ikenga body, but using all of that would push pdif cap to 4.69
 Bahamut.Justthetip
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: sairasu
Posts: 975
By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-06-15 04:15:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Velner said: »
So we didn't do proper testing tonight because we're focused on full clearing the zone. But here are some numbers from the bosses that are kind of crazy. These bosses all are 2 hour songs (Aita is 2x Minuet, 2x March, 1x Madrgal; others are 3x Minuet, 1x Madrigal, 1x Honor March) with Chaos/Sam roll. Aita has Dia III and Box Step and the others have Armor Break/Dia III/Box Step. We don't use GEO so no Fury/Frailty.

For reference, I never hit 70k+ with Torcleaver (66k is about the highest) and on Gartell I usually use Anguta where Cross Reaper tops out at around 55-60k (with occasional 70ks)

I know this isn't proper testing but my preliminary experience tells me these Weapons/Weaponskills absolutely clap.

The weapons clap in sortie we can't forget to say that while I'm making the scythe and called this out on drk forum real world testing still needed. Numbers look nice for sure but it could just be because we're made for that zone as se mobs will react differently to these said weapons.
 Asura.Bynebill
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Autocast
Posts: 160
By Asura.Bynebill 2023-06-15 04:16:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
SimonSes said: »
You confuse PDL trait with PDL on gear (and this song)

Thanks for correcting, he listed his gear above.

Quote:
r25 nyame + empy hands +3 sailfi belt jse neck ishvara / moonshade pdl vr ring / sroda ring
mlvl 50
mithra
boost str no etudes I was surely attack capped with bolster frailty / fury armor break dia 3 chaos roll war warcry
I had 436 str 320 mnd 67% ws dmg gear 13% pdl
used naegling + demersal degan +1
Offline
Posts: 9079
By SimonSes 2023-06-15 05:37:50
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Bynebill said: »
SimonSes said: »
You confuse PDL trait with PDL on gear (and this song)

Thanks for correcting, he listed his gear above.

Quote:
r25 nyame + empy hands +3 sailfi belt jse neck ishvara / moonshade pdl vr ring / sroda ring
mlvl 50
mithra
boost str no etudes I was surely attack capped with bolster frailty / fury armor break dia 3 chaos roll war warcry
I had 436 str 320 mnd 67% ws dmg gear 13% pdl
used naegling + demersal degan +1

Ok so with those stats and double TA proc (rare but can happen), song would need to be 40%PDL, which means 20% without SV, which means each +1 all songs would need to add +3%PDL.

EDIT: I overestimated Triboulex VIT. It might actually be low enough to cap fSTR with 436STR on COR with Naegling. Meaning with double TA proc at 30% PDL on song it would be exactl around 90.5K Savage. So more than likely it's that and its +2% for each +1 song for a total of +15%PDL without SV and +30% with SV.
[+]
 Phoenix.Iocus
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: androwe
Posts: 1608
By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-06-15 07:27:08
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Giving more power to +songs makes sense since you can't use it without the horn and it gets more +songs as you go up in stages. Larger reward for completion. Also makes it easier to justify as a song slot if it actually gives substantial benefits enough that you'd be willing to change your WS sets for it.

MAYBE, just maybe, they didn't mess up with Prime Weapons.
 Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Tomasello
Posts: 313
By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2023-06-15 15:13:42
Link | Quote | Reply
 
YouTube Video Placeholder


Idk.... I'm not totally sold on the scythe. Not to sound ungrateful because I do think its an awesome new weapon.

I can hit capped damage easily on Calad and now I lose empy white damage and a lower delay. I can also hit 85-95k Cross Reapers with Liberator and SU5 path B and I lose all that multi-attack. I already have an Apoc when I want to stay alive whose aftermath gives haste when LR is down.

So what have a gained? It's not like I going to say, "Don't worry, we don't need healing anymore guys. I got my scythe!" Yeah, its awesome doing capped damage and healing HP. It's not perfect, meaning bottom line this weapon is slower TP gain than other REMAs options anyway you look at it.

It's like the prime shield to me. Yeah its awesome having 75% MDT and Ochain blocking but I'm not gonna throw away my Aegis either. I think REMAs will still be better in some situations. I think they did a GOOD job not making the primes too overpowered. They all have downsides if you look hard enough.

I still think more testing is needed on stuff outside sortie when people upgrade further before final decisions are made on whether this is worth 6 months of your time versus other options.
[+]
 Asura.Sensarity
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Meeeeeep
Posts: 156
By Asura.Sensarity 2023-06-15 15:45:44
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »
I can hit capped damage easily on Calad and now I lose empy white damage and a lower delay. I can also hit 85-95k Cross Reapers with Liberator
No one cares about your damage on Qutrubs.
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Tomasello
Posts: 313
By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2023-06-15 15:47:18
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Sensarity said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »
I can hit capped damage easily on Calad and now I lose empy white damage and a lower delay. I can also hit 85-95k Cross Reapers with Liberator
No one cares about your damage on Qutrubs.

I hope you're just joking and not that bad that you don't believe it.
[+]
 Asura.Sensarity
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Meeeeeep
Posts: 156
By Asura.Sensarity 2023-06-15 15:48:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »
Asura.Sensarity said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »
I can hit capped damage easily on Calad and now I lose empy white damage and a lower delay. I can also hit 85-95k Cross Reapers with Liberator
No one cares about your damage on Qutrubs.

I hope you're just joking and not that bad that you don't believe it.

I don't believe any claim made without proof.
 Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Tomasello
Posts: 313
By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2023-06-15 15:50:36
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Sensarity said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »
Asura.Sensarity said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »
I can hit capped damage easily on Calad and now I lose empy white damage and a lower delay. I can also hit 85-95k Cross Reapers with Liberator
No one cares about your damage on Qutrubs.

I hope you're just joking and not that bad that you don't believe it.

I don't believe any claim made without proof.

Ummmm.... I have a couple Ody farms tonight. I can take screenshots if you like? I think it's sort of sad that, that's a controversial statement....
[+]
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-06-15 15:52:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
"Easily" hitting capped damage on torcleaver would mean having some excessive buffs that most people wouldn't be using. Chaos roll and brd songs wouldn't be enough
[+]
 Asura.Toralin
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: toralin
Posts: 1408
By Asura.Toralin 2023-06-15 16:06:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
“Easily” = 5x minuets 2x etude soulvoiced, cC Chaos, Bolster fury/frailty/ivit, angon, dia3+light shot, box step.

You know all the standard stuff
[+]
First Page 2 3 4 5 ... 75 76 77
Log in to post.