Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Are those BLU or RDM numbers? (Because if those are PLD numbers then I'm sold)

Have you thrown Savage Blade with the Prime Weapon when you're in a max buff/debuff scenario? And how does 55-60K compare to your normal highs for SB and Expiacion?

Uh ... following the conversation, I think they are referring to Prime Great Sword WS (WAR,PLD,DRK,RUN) not Prime Sword (RDM,BLU).

He's saying he used Prime GS WS in a Savage Blade set to get 55-60k ....but I still want to know, can a PLD reach those numbers? because if so, that's great in my opinion. Definitely interested across WAR/DRK/RUN as well.

it was katana ws

Why would you think he was talking about the Prime Greatsword when he mentioned DEX WS cape and Kentarch Belt? Prime GS is already a know quantity for FTP and mods.

WHAT A LET down i can do that with RDM and naegling still debating T.T

None of the weapons are OMG broken from what I've seen. Savage blade with the ability to SC with itself is good stuff. It also makes darkness and has some solid stat vomit at stage 4/5.

While it can participate in making darkness, it primarily makes light and effectively replaces WS like ten kamu shun shun on things without a WS wall for self sc. Fusion in and of itself is a pretty uncommon SC property on actual good WS across any weapon

Quoted for Truth

prime staff AM3 goes brrrr

Any more thoughts on Foenaria/Origin? I got my stage 4 scythe the other day and it seems to out pace my R15 Calad for WS damage on the eye test, but the white damage drop off is rather significant. In any event full timing soul eater is fun. I was firing off origins on edgelordimpboys and saw some interesting spikes even with just trust buffs.

In the age of parsers, these answers are easy enough to get. Parse with one weapon for an hour, parse with the other for an hour, check the results.

For anything with a reasonable amount of health, I am extremely skeptical about the value of white damage compared to increased WSD or WS frequency

If you WS for 60k then SC for 70k, the fact that you did an auto-attack for 5k instead of 1.5k really doesn't hold that much water. Especially when 5ish of those autos = another 60k WS.

Take two scenarios with 10 autos and 2 WS, 1.6k/5k for autos, 60k WS
Empy: 33k autos, 120k WS, 60k SC
Prime: 16k autos, 130k WS, 65k SC
If WSD goes up by 5k, you've already closed almost the entire gap on your white damage, not counting the fact that PDL aftermath would also (in certain buff scenarios) increase your white damage, or the fact that primes have DA/TA/STP, so you will have more TP, WS faster, have a chance to proc MA on WS, and have more white damage from the MA.

Someone feel free to do some testing, but I would be extremely surprised if white damage were the deciding factor in DPS or kill speed for...anything? Maybe if 2-steps kill faster than 3-steps, so the Light > Frag.

its not going to be completely fair to compare the TP phase damage of Primes to Empyreans until one is comparing a stage 5 with the "Occ. Deals Triple Damage" vs stage 4's "Occ. Deals Double Damage", which is in line with Relic TP phase damage.

It also will only proc on the 1st hit of multi-hit attack rounds, something to factor in. I will also say that comparing the total damage of Foenaria to Caladbolg is really underselling the versatility of Scythe over Greatsword. A more apt comparison would be Foenaria vs Apoc (for stage 4) or Foenaria vs Redemption (for stage 5).

Quick math Origin vs Tor puts them very close at Stage 4 vs R15.
Torcleaver looks stronger at 1000-2000 TP levels with Origin pulling ahead at 3000TP.

I used plenty of assumptions like capped att and fSTR but they are at worse very similar.

lol
Using Foenaria for anything other than survivability and soloing. XD

I don't own a Foenaria but I do very regularly play with a DRK with one, I own a R15 Calad and so does he. I've seen 1000x more 99k Origins than I've seen 99k Torcleavers. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a 99k Torcleaver, TBH.

I think Calad’s white damage can be more significant than you’ve outlined above it’s typically 6-11k on a lot of mobs. So even if there was a disparity in WSD of 30k I’m not sure it would matter. However with the utility/survivability of Origin I would struggle to see a reason not to use it on most difficult content. I do Sortie on a MB set up so I’m not sure when I’ll get a chance to test it out on something really juicy.

OK, another example then, using these obviously inflated numbers (2k-3.5k autos, 50k WS for Calad, 80k WS for Foe):
Calad: 56k autos, 100k WS, 50k SC = 206k
Foe: 28k autos, 160k WS, 80k SC = 268k

IDK, I think a 30k WS difference would make a pretty big difference. Once again, if just talking about 2 WS, you'd only need about a 10k difference in WSD to make up for 6-11k crits (I took average of 8.5k). 30k WS difference would absolutely blow that out of the water. This is also assuming no ODD on Foe, if you add that in, and the PDL, and the triple attack, it wouldn't even be close.

Too many assumptions being made, and preferences being ignored in playstyle that one purposely abuses when working with high TP phase dmg compared to WSD. Its never as straightforward as that- there's the 2s lockout post WS that with high TP phase weapons (Ukon, Calad, etc) can be purposely pushed back and "ride the white damage" which over time can cause them to pull ahead in certain scenarios; there's purposely building TP sets low in STP vs multi-attack, +crit/critdmg, +DAdmg, etc which result in more swings per 1k with more opportunities for those stats to benefit; there's how differing WSs function when allowed to scale vs spamming, even if not riding some form of white dmg TP set vs a STP-based one.

Different fights need different things. Unless someone's idea of justifying doing a Prime Weapon is "it performs better on KRT Bats", there's just too many different factors in play to ever really nail down something as universally better.

Kinda depends on party setup, is there a Warrior around doing Warcry to boost your TP during a 60s quasi-zerg window, then yeah Foenaria + Origin is gonna murder everything. Torcleaver also has Linear TP Scaling but the 80% VIT mod isn't as nice as 60/60 STR/INT. It's not that big a different in pure damage but Origin does heal you to full every WS and it's a Scythe which some people really like.

Sure but at the end of the day, one of them does better damage and is the better option. You can say you prefer to have a crit/critdmg, +DAdmg build all day, but preference doesn't mean anything when it comes to damage. One of them does more damage.

If someone has some testing showing that their white damage build does higher DPS, in any situation, I'd love to see it. Seems like every time this comes up it's seen as personal preference, where I think DPS is the most black-and-white scenario you could possibly have.

There's definitely nuance and different scenarios. If you're fighting dynamis wave 3 bosses where you stand still and hit the same enemy for 10 minutes it will be different than Ody seg mobs, but I'd still say that there is a definitive best build for both of those scenarios, and it's not a matter of preference or playstyle.

Ditto holding 1k, 1.5k, 2k, 2.5k TP. One of them is better than the other in terms of DPS (again depending on what you're fighting) and it's not a matter of preference. If you can TP up to 1k and 1-shot an Sheol C mob with a single WS in 3.2 seconds, it doesn't matter if your other weapon has higher WSD, higher white damage, or anything if it takes 4.5 seconds to get 2k TP and 1-shot it. It's just objectively worse. There are parsers. If you whack a dynamis wave 3 boss for 5 minutes with one weapon and have 3k DPS then swap to the other and whack it for 5 minutes and do 3.3k DPS, one is better than the other.

I'm still not saying that any weapon is the ultimate "use in every scenario" weapon, I'm just saying it's absolutely a math problem and not a personal decision based on how you prefer to play. For any given scenario (buffs, debuffs, target) there is a best weapon.

I struggle to see where white damage will help improve your kill speeds on anything. If you have a scenario where you can convert a 2-WS kill to a 1-WS kill with white damage, I'd love to hear about it but it seems like a lot of feelings and eyeballing numbers to me.

I haven't seen a 99999 Tor either and I play a lot of DRK. (in Sortie) but tons of 9xxxx Tors.

Origin is stronger at 3000tp no question.

Fimb hits 99999 often as well for reference.

MP for impact has to come from somewhere. Is Torc going to unearth some buried in Aminion's lair?

Another Opashoro AM3 shenanigans

Got my stage 4 GK after talking to a guy who was very disappointed in his...

I am happy to say I am very satisfied with my decision but I already want more...
This person compared it to a r15 doji which I guess I could understand now... But I don't have a doji

I was playing around with mumei in krt I was able to kill things almost 2 step, mumei mumei with ~3% remaining
No nyame in my set, not enough rp to replace my jse pieces
Minimal pdl mainly the feet, probably a lot of room to grow with my set.
Everything was dead within 3 ws sc or not.
Played around on beetles, bats, scorpion.
Took it to nyzul and did apex gear trios with very similar results.

Where I think his disappointment was stemming from was his use of doji and tachi jinpu tachi jinpu which landed pretty frequently unresisted using stage 4 gk

Edit
brd buffs honor march, minuet 5 4 3
Cor Sam chaos
Trust: rdm dia 3

Should try in Sortie, HELMs and Dyna wave2/3. I don't find Apex mobs representative of non-xp content.

In any case, Mumei is the strongest physical WS Sam has already with stage4.

Jinpu will hit harder more consistently when it's unresisted and the mob is weak to it. That's not a lot of content.

Was locus mobs and the highest level mob I could find without being an nm was the apex cogs trios at 147
But I need more time for the other stuff I just got it

Let's get some more pics in here of people doing some content!

Between scythe, great katana, katana, great axe the Great katana did the best in dyna D. With extreme buff situations results could vary but the great katana seems amazing for phy options. The mpaca head / moonshade tp bonus combined with fast tp gain of sam really shows the power of the prime. Also sam can sub drg to drop hate this would be hard for war using great axe. For shorter zerg fights different primes can shine. (like sortie bosses aeonic helms)

Extreme buffs includes PDL song, yeah? I'd imagine it's always going to favor GKT just because it gains more from extra PDL to bump it's naturally lower PDIF cap vs all other 2Hands. SAM has WS frequency at high effective TP on lock, even more with the tp bonus gear you listed.

Overcoming SAMs natural weakness has once again brought barance to FF.