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Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
By SimonSes 2023-08-01 06:30:28
I wasted 3 runs to test Ruthless Stroke, but I still have no idea wtf happens there. I couldn't get a perfect spread of 5%, so I can't calculate exact fTP at 3000TP, but still it's something weird going on imo.
Code No Fotia
min: 22313
max: 23409 Code Fotia
min: 22407
max: 23497
That would suggest 3000TP is somewhere between 20 and 34 fTP
Now the weird part:
Code Fotia with +55DEX:
min: 23472
max: 24494 Code job: RDM/DNC
PDL: 8%
Base: 124+22(capped fSTR I tested this with str songs)
WSD: 0%
pdif cap: 3.35
DEX: 339 Code sets.precast.WS['Ruthless Stroke'].TEST = {
ammo="Aurgelmir Orb +1",
head="Leth. Chappel +2",
body="Lethargy Sayon +3",
hands="Leth. Ganth. +3",
legs="Leth. Fuseau +2",
feet={ name="Bunzi's Sabots", augments={'Path: A',}},
neck="Rep. Plat. Medal",
waist="Cornelia's Belt",
left_ear="Telos Earring",
right_ear="Sherida Earring",
left_ring="Ilabrat Ring",
right_ring="Shukuyu Ring",
back=gear.AmbuBackTp
}
That would suggest DEX is only between 14% to ~25.6%
Now +55AGI added nothing (max with it was 22434) and +55CHR added nothing (min with it was 22512). STR also added nothing.
If DEX would be the only WSC then the only fitting mix would be like 29.6fTP and 18.57%DEX WSC, which is super hard to believe >.>
Am I missing something?
Only thing that comes to my mind is that INT, MND or VIT can be WSC because of spaghetti code. I will go one last time to check that, unless someone will just point some obvious mistake im doing here.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2023-08-01 09:02:27
are these all single hits only? if that is the case and assuming those are the absolute minimum values, which as you said we don't know 100% on that, that would be ~23.18 f TP. no way it would be 34, 20-25 would be most likely range
i don't think there is enough data to find your wsc with such a wide range on the ftp, and no data set to try to find values that fits all your results
By SimonSes 2023-08-01 10:18:05
are these all single hits only? if that is the case and assuming those are the absolute minimum values, which as you said we don't know 100% on that, that would be ~23.18 f TP. no way it would be 34, 20-25 would be most likely range
i don't think there is enough data to find your wsc with such a wide range on the ftp, and no data set to try to find values that fits all your results
All single hits (killshots at low %)
I know I cant find exact value, but I can find a range and even the range is really weird.
Assuming best case scenario for DEX, which would be
Code Fotia
min: 22407 -> 22378 (23497/1.05)
max: 23497
and
Code Fotia with +55DEX:
min: 23472
The difference would be 1093
20fTP: 1093/pDifcap/fTP/addedDEX = 1093/3.618/20/55 = 27.5%
34fTP: 1093/pDifcap/fTP/addedDEX = 1093/3.618/34/55 = 16.17%
None of those look like right value for WS with only DEX WSC. I havent tried adding INT, MND or VIT, so I need to rule that out, but if it's not that, then it's either "WTF SE?!" or it's broken.
Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2023-08-01 12:51:34
34 ftp would be impossible
22313 / 34 = 657
657 / (3.35 * 1.08) = 182
182 - 124 = 58 damage from wsc and fstr
if you have capped fstr like you claim then that's already 21 damage. hard to believe you don't have 37 damage from wsc. even with just 20% dex mod alone that's already beat at 185 dex.
but if you solve for x and y, then you get the ~23.18 i mentioned earlier. but we don't know if those are the absolute minimum damage so that's not an exact number, so with some leeway we're probably around 20-25 http://ftp.
would really be best to get the for sure minimum and maximum damage to get a more accurate value, then it's easy to find base damage and wsc from there.
By SimonSes 2023-08-01 16:42:55
but if you solve for x and y, then you get the ~23.18
It might fit one, but it doesn't fit both.
The difference from +55DEX is between 1065 to 1093 (1093 if you take 22378 from 23497/1.05)
To make this fit with 23.18 fTP it would need to be 23~23.7% DEX WSC, but then:
(124+22+(339*0.237))*3.618*23.18 gives only 19896 minimum and I was getting around 22313.
Like I said earlier, the only fTP and WSC combo, that fits both 22313 damage and 1065-1094 gain from +55DEX is somewhere between:
29.5fTP and 18.63%DEX
or
29.8fTP and 17.96%DEX
The only other possibility is that INT, MND or VIT is WSC too (possibly a bug?).
By SimonSes 2023-08-01 18:23:42
Ok mystery solved. It has equal VIT WSC. Obviously this might be intended, but I'm gonna report it as bug.
So currently it's probably 25% DEX/VIT and ~20.9fTP
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By Ramuh.Austar 2023-08-01 19:35:27
It might fit one, but it doesn't fit both. it won't fit either because we don't know if those are the minimum values for either, that's why I said it would be around 20 to 25. without a proper data set, I can't help you and you were making assumptions about WSC with an unknown fTP value.
for example, if your minimum value without fotia was 5 damage less at 22308 instead, then you would get an ftp value of 22, that's why it's important to have a better data set and not make assumptions. compare it to the scythe values you posted which have a proper range and you can solidly see 9.5
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-08-01 19:38:18
Aren't 25% mods really low for this kind of WS?
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By Ramuh.Austar 2023-08-01 19:41:53
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Aren't 25% mods really low for this kind of WS? not if the ftp is that high
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-08-01 20:07:06
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Aren't 25% mods really low for this kind of WS? not if the ftp is that high
Sorry, wasn't commenting empirically.
What I mean is those seem like really low mods generally for a rema WS.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2023-08-01 20:19:15
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »Aren't 25% mods really low for this kind of WS? not if the ftp is that high
Sorry, wasn't commenting empirically.
What I mean is those seem like really low mods generally for a rema WS. expiacion has 3 low mods
 Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2023-08-01 20:35:05
Insurgency is 20%/20%
By SimonSes 2023-08-02 02:18:49
It might fit one, but it doesn't fit both. it won't fit either because we don't know if those are the minimum values for either, that's why I said it would be around 20 to 25. without a proper data set, I can't help you and you were making assumptions about WSC with an unknown fTP value.
for example, if your minimum value without fotia was 5 damage less at 22308 instead, then you would get an ftp value of 22, that's why it's important to have a better data set and not make assumptions. compare it to the scythe value you posted which have a proper range and you can solidly see 9.5
I'm aware of that, but nothing more I can do. I wasted 4 runs and killed like 100 leeches in each of them and couldn't get more accurate spread. I'm gonna stop for now and assume it's around 25% DEX/VIT and ~20.9fTP, but I'm not gonna update bgwiki or anything like that.
By SimonSes 2023-08-02 03:00:08
Oh btw I retested PDL at stage 3 to confirm its 3%/5%/8% and it is.
At stage 4 AM3 goes up to 10% (tested by Unagihito).
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By Asura.Helmaru 2023-08-04 02:40:54
Can anyone advise me on how you would go about testing modifiers for greatsword? Or did anyone test them yet?
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By Ramuh.Austar 2023-08-04 02:57:01
do you have stage 3 or 4?
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By Asura.Helmaru 2023-08-04 03:39:02
3 only
Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2023-08-04 05:42:05
proth had the 119 hecteyes at 189 VIT, so you will want to WS in >= 353 STR and cap your attack. avoid any pdl, wsd, or multi attack equipment if possible. you will also want to use the same aftermath level each time, level 3 particularly since it was stated somewhere that it does scale based on tp. ws until you have a minimum value and a maximum value that is 5% apart, then do the same with a single fotia equipped. if you can do them all at 3K tp since it's easier to control, then the fTP would be easy to determine, and once that's determined, you'll have to repeat it but just swap around base stats while keeping the str value at or over 353
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-08-04 07:00:30
Can anyone advise me on how you would go about testing modifiers for greatsword? Or did anyone test them yet?
Don't over think it bro, Mods are the stats on the weapon, in the end it is full nyame + Empy +3 wsd piece , no brainer.
Best of luck.
That doesn't seem to be true as apparently dagger ws mods are DEX/VIT and the weapon has DEX/AGI/CHA on it.
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By Asura.Helmaru 2023-08-04 08:56:13
For some people, myself included, figuring out things like that is considered fun and a big part why i still play this game.
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By SimonSes 2023-08-04 09:21:55
I'm not trying to be Mr. Always right, just trying to simplfiy it, one hit WS usually do well with Nyame and Nyame covers most stats that is required, you have to only change few accessories like one ear, two rings belt or neck. Dagger is multi hit different story than one hit WS.
Doesn't matter it's multihit. It has like 60-90% of damage on first hit, so you gear for it like for one hit anyway.
By Nariont 2023-08-04 09:55:46
WSes where 100%DA in WS set is meaningful?
The ones that replicate i.e reso/deci? Granted even those may not max DA since theres other MA options
By Taint 2023-08-04 10:47:53
Disaster (GAXE) numbers look sporadic, could it be a weaponskill to gear for 100% DA (there's even DA on the weapon)? Anyone tested this? If not, any WAR WSes where 100%DA in WS set is meaningful?
Numbers all over the place and the same TP? Got any Data?
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-08-04 11:21:35
I'm not trying to be Mr. Always right, just trying to simplfiy it, one hit WS usually do well with Nyame and Nyame covers most stats that is required, you have to only change few accessories like one ear, two rings belt or neck. Dagger is multi hit different story than one hit WS.
And that's fine, but this thread is about finding out what the stats are, not actually making the best set for the WS. These people are insterested in populating the wiki information on the WS.
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By dontclickme 2023-08-04 12:50:36
Dagger is multi hit different story than one hit WS.
not necessarily true, a lot of multi-hit weaponskills dont have fTP transfer. since the majority of the damage is done on the first hit, nyame the preferred set.
By Wyrmnax 2023-08-04 18:18:20
I was really hoping the shield was going to be awesome but looking at the stats not even sure were this would fit in the current REMA rotation.
At tier 3 shield is probably already the best physical / general use shield in the game. But the gain for lv 4 and 5 are minimal.
By SimonSes 2023-08-04 18:42:31
I was really hoping the shield was going to be awesome but looking at the stats not even sure were this would fit in the current REMA rotation.
What rotation? You would full time it for almost anything.
With all the stage 3 and 4 prime weapons in the wild is there any clear winners on what seems to be bring a job to next level. Would love to hear what others opinions are.
Many of the weapons are either massive horizontal progression and/or bis damage. Not sure if you can call that next level.
I would say Foenaria is a good candidate for that description. Bis damage while also aspiring MP (can steal mob's entire mp pool with easy), so you can use Shere without issues and draining HP is obviously something game changing too.
Let's keep this thread solely for sharing information on the new prime weaponskills; WS numbers/sceenshots, hypothetical discussions on WS properties, such as stat mods and fTP, gear sets and buffs/debuffs used etc.
No discussions/comments on how much people hate sortie, why weapon requirements suck etc.
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