August 2022 Version Update

I meant NIN is shitty compare with /drg :p. /DNC doesn't fix the problem.

You don't see NINs /DNC in seg farms, what makes /DNC competitive as a DD SJ? :P

I should have type "COR is stuck with shitty /NIN and even shittier /DNC" so people aren't confused lol.


Shadows absorbs 3 hits blink is like...1? Why do you think blink is as good as shadows lol.

Also no thanks to waste my TP for blink. Even you think it's small loss with waltz1, it adds up in the long run.


Wait what? >.>

JA delay penalty has nothing to do with how fast you click your JA/WS macro. All JA had 1 sec forced delay everytime you use it. This is a game mechanic that is not avoidable.

With how fast everything dies in seg farm, sometimes wasting one sec on a JA is the difference between getting to fire off that 99999 hot shot on a qutrub and be 99999 dmg closer to other DD, or piss off with 1000 TP ready to fire, but all the mobs die, and lost that golden opportunity to fire off another big dmg WS before things die.

On cor, what's worse is that you move to the next mob and it's weak to SB, so you are forced to waste a TP ready WS WITHOUT naeg build equipped lol.


In segs? Not really. Because you need to constantly reapply it every camp and waste 350 TP for it. Which often means you lose 1 WS per group but everyone else doesn't.


You know that in segs sometimes the difference between getting to WS 4 times per group or 5 is often the 1 sec difference right?

Whoever WS faster wins the parse.


You aren't even going to be higher on the parse with /DNC. Whoever WS faster than everyone else is the one that's higher on the parse. You know, the guys who don't /DNC, use samba nor steps.

People may think it's okay to use TP for DNC ability because it's not alot. After 30 min it adds up. And it shows on parses via WS frequency stat.

Half of the one shot WS cor has is leaden/hot shot anyways, and those can one shot without steps. So /DNC is gigantic waste of DPS potential to me.

If someone wants to convince me that /DNC does parse higher, post your parses. Then maybe I'll change my mind about it, lol.

AFAIK JA delay is 2 sec (until you start melee again). You can cut it to 1 sec by using JA or WS. He meant to always use box step or samba before SB to force 1sec instead of 2.

EDIT: by explaining what he meant I don't agree with using /DNC for segments btw. Like I explained earlier, you can cap attack without box step and with /NIN.

Yeah thats how it works. I always do JA > WS so in my mind it's 1 sec DPS loss for every JA when I evaluate the pros and cons of each JA use. Which sucks anyways.

4 years ago people were promoting "use building flourish before every evis" on DNC, I already parsed in multiple ambuscade with BF spam v.s without, and concluded that it isn't worth it in none-multi step situations due to JA delay DPS loss. So I'm really not a fan of losing WS frequency for slight WS dmg increase.

Really parsing high is a lot more than doing big WS dmg. Based on this discussion, Apparently People frequently don't check WS frequency per run on parse but that's usually the biggest reason why some people parse lower than another DD.



I frequently don't cap attack in most of the segs that I've been to. Because some groups has weaker BRD and some group uses minne for defense. If I noticed my WS dmg is hitting attack cap I'd WS in attack capped set, but it's just not there from my experience.

But even then I wouldn't /DNC because it, I use leaden/WF/hs half the time anyways.

You are talking about one person suggesting to use /dnc and box step. I wouldn't generalize or use plural form here :)

Well, once someone asked me "why do you need to check WS frequency on parse" in game. Also in this same discussion somebody asked a NIN "what is your WS frequency" but they said they didn't check this stat when they parse.

So it seems like quite a bit of people check %, dmg number or "who is winning" but not the real important info aka WS frequency. Maybe not everyone, but certainly many people from what I've seen.

Then tell them to use minne on tank not DD lol
Also obviously with non optimal buffs you won't cap, but then it's a party problem, not a job or sub job problem.
Also another easy way to help with attack cap is WHM casting diaga or more niche (because Blu is rarely used) BLU casting TC.

Anyone miss the talk about that shitty new music SE released?

I miss any thread that isn't the same two people for 10 pages saying the same ***

If the thread mentions a cor or a blu in any context, may as well just stop looking at it.

People uses minne because DDs like to die, obviously. On the other hand min 2 is kinda weak, so non cor DD can still cap without it. So it's an okay sacrifice probably.

Logically, Of course it is still a job/subjob problem because everyone plays with different people thus everyone receives different buffs depending on people. And jobs with attack bonus still has higher attack if situations don't favor them. They don't have to BE in a perfect party situations to cap attack basically.

The more I look at the armor’s (minus some of the earrings) the more I feel like this gear should of came out before Odyssey. Theres a lot of good pieces but in the end it feels a bit underwhelming than it should imo. Some of the -dt options in particular would of helped as a stepping stone to clear Odyssey. Depending on the difficulty of sortie, this gear will help people who don’t want to do odyssey. Timing of the content just seems a little misplaced to me but regardless its to nice to get something new added to the game.

Y'all guys need to remember that there's a large portion of the playerbase that does not have easy access to Ody clears.

There's a gear ladder that starts at bayld gear and ends at odyssey r25 sets, passing through escha zitah gear, nq ambu, delve, reforged af/relic/empy, hq ambu, reforged +2/+3, reisenjima gear and oseem augments, htmb items, r0 ody, etc etc etc.

There's a lot of "holes" in this ladder, when seen from a "difficulty to obtain" point of view, and this empy+2 is filling one of these holes. Empy +2 is certainly not post-Ody gear, it's somewhere earlier in the ladder and I agree that it might feel like it has been released out of order, but:

a) it's not +3 yet and that might hide some surprises (tho not too many, although I fully expect the WSD+8 pieces to get WSD+15 at +3)

b) the target of these gearsets is _not_ people who capped all their ody sets, by explicit statement of the developers.

This stuff looks like it was designed the same as ambuscade weapons, where apart from Naegling everybody initially was like "what's the point!?" but then we all agreed that stuff like Lycurgos, while miles from the remas that all the jobs on it have access to, is an excellent non-rema option while simultaneously being more accessible to returners and beginners, even or maybe especially in the -1 version (kaja/eletta/etc).

Again, the target audience is not the players who made a static the second Gaol came out and never missed a run and long capped all gear, it's everybody else, including me who came back in May after two years of hiatus, and I'm maybe at 25% of the RP needed to finish all the Ody gear for the jobs I play. For me, war empy hands are going to be better than nyame for weaponskills, since I still have the latter at a +6wsd rank (I can't get Bumba kills, my work schedule is dumb).

All you people who go like "baww this doesn't blow ody out of the water :(" are basically asking SE to start implementing the vertical progression that most of us hate about XIV, where each gear released makes the previous update completely irrelevant. I am quite happy instead that all the effort to rank up these ody sets are not being wiped away a few short months after I'm done with that content. We're getting more situational gear, and that's a good thing.

Good post. Looking forward to Empy+2 and +3 after never really going the Ody route.

@Lili: Well said.

ahem,



some people are built different

oh - very true - this set was stupidly broken when it was released and made some jobs godly in scenarios where we needed to survive over DPS vs war drk drg

RDM felt so dumb when I put this set on

For the record, I don't think /DNC would outparse /NIN overall for the same reasons you stated. I didn't word it properly, but I was trying to debunk /DNC even under the presumption it could potentially parse higher.

In addition to the JA delay, Haste Samba from subjob just isn't worth the TP unless you can stay engaged for most or all of its duration. Odyssey is too much hit-and-run for it to work well. Same reason why Mythic AM3 struggles in there.

It also makes me wonder why DRG/DNC was suggested previously, because even taking their innate JA Haste into account, wouldn't /NIN similarly let you cap delay without having to wear any DW gear?

---

Also I agree that Empy+2 gear is mainly intended to be catch-up gear for players who aren't maxed out with Ody stuff and situational gear for those who are. But even so, it's seriously lacking in several respects since it could've dealt with a lot of shortcomings that some jobs currently have with no planned job adjustments on the horizon.

It honestly wouldn't sting as much if SE hadn't made us wait like 3-4 years for this gear while repeatedly bringing it up.

Not sure why +2 is being so heavily compared to Odyssey gear to begin with. You all know it still has to go to +3 right?

By the time this ***is +3 a lot of these pieces will be better than odyssey gear for a lot of jobs in a lot of situations. For some jobs there are +2 pieces that are already there, too. Not sure where either the disappointment that it isn't good enough or the assertion that it never will be is coming from.

Do I wish some of the job specific stats and adjustments were better? Yes, especially as a BLU. But it was an unreasonably high expectation to think that they'd actually be performing any sweeping job adjustments through empyrean upgrades.

Because its new and they have to argue about something, so

(It's better than the "which prime weapon should I make first" threads we're about to get)

I'm going to have to ask you to stop being so damn reasonable, that's just not what we do here

Claustrum duh

Of course we don't know what +3 is like yet, but the main issue is that while Ody gave us gear with insane stats for pure damage and defensive purposes, a lot of people were hoping Empy would instead focus on job-specific bonuses.

But in the end all we got were just generic stats again (useful, but generic). Despite Odyssey's release delaying Empy by like 2 years to allow them to work on it longer.

I edited it in afterwards, but


I've seen some crazy suggestions and expectations on what people wanted on their empyrean gear and it was never ever going to happen. I'm still shocked that they added new "generic" stats to as many pieces as they did. Being completely realistic: they were barely able to perform the job adjustment cadence of one job every couple months before. Did you guys honestly expect them to do a fat patch with all this armor, a new event, and essentially job adjustments for every single job at once?

Yes it sucks, yes some jobs could use some love right now. But this was never going to be the place.

I now understand. Thank you and others for pointing out this common sense rule.

I wasn't hoping for them to actually "fix" jobs with Empy, but rather lean more heavily into the already existing job-specific bonuses on the gear.

Take PUP empy head, for example. It's mainly used to boost Automaton WSs, but it got more base stats, Pet Acc bonuses (which is nice, but arguably overkill these days) and PDL+7% for some reason, but the Automaton TP Bonus was only increased by a measly +25 TP which is essentially nothing.

That said, there is a chance the Empy+2 upgrade was just meant to add a solid baseline of stats to all gear to make it competitive with modern stuff, while the Empy+3 upgrade will not increase those already-powerful base stats much further and instead offer more job-specific stuff.

To be fair they did specifically say they were balancing because of the empyrean reforge, that seems like "fixing" jobs. but as per usual that looks like complete *** lol

Yeah they also said we'd be getting a complete all job encompassing balance update and then dropped master levels on us lmao

I think what SE considers job balance and what we as the players consider job balance are two entirely different things, as dumb as it is