Segment Farming: RDM DD

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Segment Farming: RDM DD
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By Nyaanu 2021-05-03 15:32:31
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Looking for some insight on any career RDM's that may have done a decent amount of Sheol C farming on RDM as a DD. I've seen a few that have done relatively well, and obviously they are not likely going to keep up with the SAM/DRK/WAR meta. However, with access to Naegling, Crocea/enspell, some daggers, and even some blunt (non-REMA, obviously), I feel as if their versatility even outside of Savage Blade spam should be respectable.

Haste 2 also opens up a slot for BRD to add an Etude or change up their 5th song (although slowga will be an issue, so if the RDM is DD, it may not be worth lost time tracking Hastega rotation). Refresh 3 for mages helps because BRD can focus on just Minne's for tanks.

But damage-wise, what are you seeing/using in terms of weapons, swaps, weaponskills, etc.?

Thank you in advance.
 Cerberus.Nolatari
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By Cerberus.Nolatari 2021-05-03 15:55:45
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I haven't gone very often on RDM, I normally tank on RUN. But in general with Naegling and Maxentius can pretty much keep up with mid tier Heavy DDs. The few times I went RDM, I think I probably averaged 25k on Savage Blade with Naegling and about 20k with kaja rod. I am not BiS but end game geared. I will take RDM this week to verify this information. I donot have any idea what I could do with Evisceration in there, still working on the build.

On a side Note which capable jobs are able to use relatively strong WS of each damage type. WAR, RDM,...??
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2021-05-03 16:00:46
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SAM
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 Bahamut.Belkin
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By Bahamut.Belkin 2021-05-03 16:03:05
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Cerberus.Nolatari said: »
On a side Note which capable jobs are able to use relatively strong WS of each damage type. WAR, RDM,...??

DRK has Calad/Liberator and Loxotic Mace
WAR has all three types
SAM has Masamune/Shining One
BRD has Naegling/dagger
BLU has sword/Maxentius

MNK is about the only DD that gets the shaft in terms of a second damage type.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-03 16:10:22
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I think RDM could be a very functional party of a Sheol C segment farming group....but never be desired over other options.

I like to bring out my RDM for situations where the enfeebles make a difference and prove you can get those along with solid DPS. Not top tier, mind you- but its not like WAR or SAM can do much beyond Tomahawk/Full Break/Ageha, so in many situations having slow2/para2/dia3/etc more than makes up for the DPS difference of a "heavy" DD.

Nothing lives long enough in C to make that addition matter. In fact, if you're enfeebling almost at all, it's going to reduce your DPS numbers without hardly any benefit to yourself or the other DDs. Things will still take the same number of swings/WSs to die.

The second great benefit of a DD Red Mage is maintaining that Haste2 cycle to "free up" a Bard Song. But if you're firing off Clarion Call from the start, the benefit of that shrinks. Its great when you have 4 songs and can still get 2 minuets and a madrigal, or 3 minuets if your group is geared enough for acc requirements. But if you've got 5 songs, you're already riding that DD song combo even with 2 Marches.

tl;dr- if you have fun that way and your group is ok with it, a DD RDM should hold their own well. But it won't match an "ideal" setup because the benefits we bring don't show themselves well in that style of fighting in my opinion.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2021-05-03 16:10:26
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DRG has Polearm,Naegling and Staff.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-03 16:14:14
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Asura.Bippin said: »
DRG has Polearm,Naegling and Staff.

DRG Naegling is just flat out dirty good.
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By Nyaanu 2021-05-03 16:20:08
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
I think RDM could be a very functional party of a Sheol C segment farming group....but never be desired over other options.

I like to bring out my RDM for situations where the enfeebles make a difference and prove you can get those along with solid DPS. Not top tier, mind you- but its not like WAR or SAM can do much beyond Tomahawk/Full Break/Ageha, so in many situations having slow2/para2/dia3/etc more than makes up for the DPS difference of a "heavy" DD.

Nothing lives long enough in C to make that addition matter. In fact, if you're enfeebling almost at all, it's going to reduce your DPS numbers without hardly any benefit to yourself or the other DDs. Things will still take the same number of swings/WSs to die.

The second great benefit of a DD Red Mage is maintaining that Haste2 cycle to "free up" a Bard Song. But if you're firing off Clarion Call from the start, the benefit of that shrinks. Its great when you have 4 songs and can still get 2 minuets and a madrigal, or 3 minuets if your group is geared enough for acc requirements. But if you've got 5 songs, you're already riding that DD song combo even with 2 Marches.

tl;dr- if you have fun that way and your group is ok with it, a DD RDM should hold their own well. But it won't match an "ideal" setup because the benefits we bring don't show themselves well in that style of fighting in my opinion.

Appreciate this insight. My main rides the BRD train (SAM when someone else can BRD), but my Alt is only RDM and looking to get groups going that way. I've also found that, if everybody is geared well, often times having one DD that is a bit slower usually just gives the COR/BRD time to make up the difference (since stuff dies so fast, it is often just a matter of who delivers the killing blow as opposed to having the ability to do so altogether).

I could see RDM helping more on F4 fetter since those bosses tend to take a few extra swings; Dia and/or a quick enfeeble may help speed that up. But I agree that enfeebling (instead of just having a quick diaga at most) will waste DPS time, and even Haste may meet diminishing returns (although March + Minuet x3 + Herc Etude could help reduce the number of mobs that survive at 1-5% and need auto-ed down).

Cerberus.Nolatari said: »
I haven't gone very often on RDM, I normally tank on RUN. But in general with Naegling and Maxentius can pretty much keep up with mid tier Heavy DDs. The few times I went RDM, I think I probably averaged 25k on Savage Blade with Naegling and about 20k with kaja rod. I am not BiS but end game geared. I will take RDM this week to verify this information. I donot have any idea what I could do with Evisceration in there, still working on the build.

On a side Note which capable jobs are able to use relatively strong WS of each damage type. WAR, RDM,...??

Did you feel that swapping to blunt was even worth it? Or would you think just keep Naegling spam and push through the resistance? Same with dagger? Or would you try swapping to one of the better dagger options for Piercing?
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-05-03 16:31:04
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Nyaanu said: »
Did you feel that swapping to blunt was even worth it? Or would you think just keep Naegling spam and push through the resistance? Same with dagger? Or would you try swapping to one of the better dagger options for Piercing?

Wanted to offer my opinions on this in a general sense, as I'm usually COR for my static, with the occasional DRK to mix things up.

I view changing weapons to avoid a mob's resistance/strength as valuable if it reduces the number of WSs needed to kill the mob. On DRK, I can often build TP to the 2.2k marker and a nostos mob will die in one Cross Reaper. But if its slashing resistant, its going to take 2 WSs to kill that same mob. Will switching to an "off" weapon return that to 1 WS? Or can I use 2 WSs of that type at lower TP values, meaning I spend less time on each mob I fight?

Sticking with the DRK example, I can swap to Loxotic Mace+1/Blurred+1 build on slashing resistant mobs and often kill those nostos mobs in 2 WSs, but both under 1.5k. That's less time spent TP'ing, so its worth the swap.

On COR, my main swaps are from Naegling Savage Blade or Wildfire/Leaden depending on mob family. And 2 1k Wildfires that self-chain is faster than 2 Savage Blades at 1.5k+ each for the same kill.

RDM Black Halo might have the same results on those mobs/situations. I wouldn't expect our piercing options to compete with that.
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By Mrgrim 2021-05-03 18:37:48
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RDM is pretty good for Odyssey, can cover just about every damage type, and can debuff troublesome UNM NMs thus making them more tame. Oh I forgot that it can also support cure if the need arises! My setup atm is RUN RDM BLU BRD WHM COR, and this setup usually yields me 6k+ per run in sheol C. BLU's tenebral crush along rdm's dia 3 will basically wreck enemies in no time. I also like emboldening phalanx II from RDM for my RUN, makes me tankier!

When it comes to dmg, it all depends whether you have tp sword or not, but if you have that along some BIS WS sets, you'll be doing 45k+ Savage Blades, 40k+ Black Halos (50k+ if skeletons), and 25k+ Eviscerations.

Bahamut.Belkin said: »

MNK is about the only DD that gets the shaft in terms of a second damage type.

Yes mnk got shafted when it comes to Ody, damn 1 trick ponies!
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 Cerberus.Nolatari
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By Cerberus.Nolatari 2021-05-03 19:52:00
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Did you feel that swapping to blunt was even worth it? Or would you think just keep Naegling spam and push through the resistance? Same with dagger? Or would you try swapping to one of the better dagger options for Piercing?[/quote]


When your WS goes below 10k and its usually double or triple that, yeah I would say its worth it. I have friends who play WAR and DRK and built the Loxatic Mace+1 just for judgment
 Siren.Bruno
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By Siren.Bruno 2021-05-04 01:38:18
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Bahamut.Belkin said: »
MNK is about the only DD that gets the shaft in terms of a second damage type.

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By SimonSes 2021-05-04 02:41:40
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Siren.Bruno said: »
Bahamut.Belkin said: »
MNK is about the only DD that gets the shaft in terms of a second damage type.


There are also https://www.ffxiah.com/item/17510/vampiric-claws for slashing, but both of those weapons are only piercing/slashing for melee hits, not for WS and melee hits with non ilvl weapons are weak, even on monk.
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By FaeQueenCory 2021-05-04 08:46:12
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Crocea's enspell and (always double dark weather boosted) Sanguine boost, as well as RDM's access to Malignance and Ayanmo sets means that /nin and you're gonna be gaining a lot of TP very quickly (and have a lot of white damage cause of that enspell) and do a sizeable amount of damage.

However likely you'll find higher numbers with Naegling since the group is unlikely to give up one of their rolls for Wizard's. (though if your group has 2 cors running around, that might be moot)

I run with a bunch of really good DRK/SAM/WARs, so my perspective on things are a bit skewed; (I can barely engage on RUN 90% of the time, they kill things too fast!) but it seems like there's been no need for any damage type weapon changing. Even on heavily resistant things (looking at you, skeletons) they kill them super fast.

The only downside to RDM is that it eats a few minutes at the beginning to put up all your buffs... of which there are a lot.
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