What Are WHM's Expectations In Endgame Content.

I am here to ask you the community of White Mages, of what you feel your expectations are for White Mages.

Both obvious, non-obvious and expectations that may seem 'outside' the realm of responsibilities.

Having a few squabbles with some White Mages that *I* personally feel do not perform White Mage duties to the expectations that I personally have, and I also feel this is a detriment to the success of endgame content.(However 'easy' it is). I'll sadly admit that I've given unsolicited advice where it likely should not of been, and that is on me, as its caused disturbances between me and fellow linkshell mates due to it, and I've had a few upset at me for suggesting that one can do "This or that." since I know I personally can do it during that content, so someone equally geared or near it should be able to at least compare to those same expectations. Am I wrong for this?

I am not stating specifics, or calling out names of any sorts, I just want to have a reference here, so I don't necessarily feel that I am singling any persons out. Who knows, maybe I expect too much of people.

Only thing I will mention though, is I dislike a White Mage that says they shouldn't have to raise anyone not in their initial party they were tasked to take care of.

I already know the answer to this, but I will ask for the sake of clarity:

"Can a single White Mage, take care of an entire alliance of players in most endgame content."? With, or without Ballad/Refresh. (I don't need anything outside of sublimation to do this.) Maybe with the exception of Aeonic Runs.

Anything else mentioned to give me insight on White Mage as a job outside a simple guide is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

I think there are a lot more factors to expectations of a whm than just "can you or can't you do XYZ?"

is everyone else playing to this standard that you are attempting to hold your whms to? do all the DDs have proper PDT/MDT sets, 3 forms of reraise, are they adjusting their dmg as necessary to avoid death?

It's easy to overlook that what causes most whms to burnout is having to babysit their DD LS mates who can't be bothered to do anything beyond "MAX DPS! BRUH!" while being harassed by someone who thinks they should be doing more all the while being guilt tripped to continue playing whm any time they decide they don't feel like playing whm.

From my limited point of view of your situation, if your whms are refusing to raise people outside their party then they are either

1. just an overall poor player, in which case this pattern of behavior should have been obvious from when they joined.

Or

2. The more likely, they are burned out/becoming jaded.

Expectations...

1. Watch your DPS get flattened in one hit by massive AoE damage because they were using melee sets with no mitigation in them or badly miss-timed a weapon skill. They will then scream at you in the /p chat "OMFG WHERE WAS HEAL".

2. Hear your DPS scream at you to get all their ailments off immediately, completely ignoring the fact universal delay between spells is a thing, that you need to keep people alive before dealing with ailments and ignoring the fact that Remedies and Panaceas exist.

3. Everything is your fault.

4. Suddenly realize why there are so many botted WHMs.

No, a single WHM cannot take care of an entire ally.
The least we run with in dynamis is a WHM and a SCH, and when available a RDM in the third party. Expecting a WHM to heal 17 ppl is just ridicolous and unfeasible, like saying can a single BRD keep songs up on an entire alliance?
What I expect a WHM to do is to help healing other parties at need but it's a job he can't do alone, if they're the only WHM in the ally though I expect them to Arise people, even if they're in other parties.

Honestly, my expectations of WHM have lowered a great deal over the years. Wolfie and Rua have already covered the finer points (esp. there being so many botted WHM's now).

6-Person content, all I expect is for timely heals. All too often it's the DD's w/o proper DT, MEva sets, and too cheap to buy Remedies & Panaceas that eat high damage and get crippled by ailments the most.
(But have no problem spending hundreds of millions of gil Rank 15'ing their 10th REMA.

18-person content is a clusterfuck to begin with. You should have more than one source of healing, even if it's not a WHM. Arises outside of a party is a reasonable ask, as long as the [brain]dead DD isn't being prioritizing over the tank party needing a heal.

Accidentally posted from my Mule's name and don't know why. Posting from my main now. Unsure why that is even an option.


90% of the Linkshell mostly, if not already have proper DT/MDT sets, acc sets, Remedies, Instant-RR(Rather it be scrolls, or Gorgets or Reraisers), so the strain on a WHM is very limited outside the damage the tank itself takes.

Most our damage are from Corsairs, and Ranged. Most the time, if we are doing any content related to a zerg, we'll have two WHMs in the alliance.

The situation where I had mentioned about the raises, was where there were two WHMs, one has all three cooldowns on /recast(mine), the other was not. However, questioned why they should have to raise other parties when every party has some kind of form of ability to raise.

We had wiped, mob was DOT'ed at 5%, this was Shah. We were trying to recover as fast as possible. Was a slip up, but it is what it is. Faster raises are handed out, the easier it is to recover from a wipe. But the ending result lead to having one WHM having to raise 12 people instead of 6-8 instead.

Mind you, this was a SMN Burn, so there wasn't really much for the WHMs to do other than keep the tank alive/raise. Nothing past that. So there was no immediate strain of responsibilities on said WHM.



I've completely main healed an entire alliance clearing Wave3 Dynamis Boss, as sole WHM without a Ballad, or Refresh. Mind you I have Yagrush, and thankfully the BLU in the other party would use Winds of Promy. to Erasega everyone else. Outside that, no other form of Healing besides a few Magic Fruits here and there.

So while this may be accurate to a degree, I can do it, and Ebers Legs account for a lot of this(Which every WHM should have anyways).

Dynamis is the easiest content for me to main heal in, actually. I find Omen to be worst, since they have odd behavior that one shots people even with the most epic of equipment.

I've been able to main heal solely as a single WHM in all content outside of Aeonic Runs. Generally there is always either a BLU with defensive spells, diamondhide, and white wind to accomodate another party (or) a WHM on Aeonics.



While we should potentially have two healers, its not always plausible, which is why this topic came to fruition initially. Because I felt my WHM duties were "X" and another person's thought their priorities were "Y" and I didn't agree with how a WHM should be played, or felt that the person feels WHM is a job that isn't as capable without all the possible support there is to make it efficient even in 1-WHM events. I am just trying to see if i was unjustified in expecting more out of someone when I know I am capable of doing it myself.

I laughed at the first part of this comment though mainly, because that blows my mind as well. I actually carry Remedies/Panaceas/Eye Drops.(I am generally a BLU main.), as I get cripped without it. Easier for me to press an /item macro to heal it than expect someone else to do so, or wasting a spell slot on Winds of Promy. when I can carry Panaceas instead.

Being a WHM myself, it's really difficult watching other WHMs struggle to adapt to situations. I will privately make suggestions if I notice something obvious or if things aren't going well. Most people are willing to learn and adapt, but you do get the occasional diva WHM who would rather take everybody down with them than admit they might be wrong.

Take this month's Ambu for example. Had a decked out WHM refuse the polite suggestion to try Misery/Esuna instead of relying on the mightiness of his AG Yag. He predictably couldn't keep up with all the casting and it led to multiple wipes. After much embarrassment and an emotional meltdown he bailed on the party.

Nobody should expect perfection, especially if the WHM is in a very demanding fight or tasked with healing a ridiculous amount of players... but if you aren't willing to challenge yourself, or you're thin skinned, or you're just slow, then you're probably on the wrong job.

This is #1.

lol this guy is on crack, no a single whm shouldn't be expected to heal an entire alliance (note: using all ranged attacks to win isn't the same as traditional party setups).

No a whm shouldn't raise their own party, in fact in a smn burn the smns should have had reraise up and should have been helping get people up with cait sith anyway (then again a smn burn method doesn't really call for 2 healers, so that doesn't make sense anyway).


There's so many things wrong here I can't even.

My favorite is them getting charmed or triggering a ninja and causing deathga because they a. weren't listening b. didn't care or c. just a moron.

*** ups happen but when it is constantly then lol...

I used to be like you until I started playing Mnk. Then I was like "Oh, I am a bad bad Whm. I will retire from healing and gonna start a career as a Bear Killer! Let me come as Mnk and you play the trusty Whm! You are so much better than me, you can be the best Whm now!"

They then just suddenly melted away... some guys would take the Whm job and I moved to Monk... until they asked me to rotate as Whm even if I was a bad bad Whm.

As a career whm (mage in general really), the only thing that will piss me off is any mage not carrying echo drops/remedies.

As for the scenario above..... those smn’rs should have had their own reraise. Of course it’s possible to get up and get ko’d immediately. Pretty sure a wipe on schah with a smn’r burn is just that, a wipe. Go reset sp’s and repop.

Yes, I agree they should of used Cait for RR, but note below:
We should of reset SPs, and reburned, but it was 5%. Was an easy recover if we bought time with the outside RDM Doting it. Could of easily recovered if people were willing to help each other to just raise a few people. Don't see whats so hard about it. It was more so a case of someone upset and punishing others by not raising them. Nothing about teamwork and helpfulness at all. Its an inconvenience to raise, sure...but to completely negate an easy finish to a 5% mob is kinda disheartening.

Linkshell has done this several times without wipes. Don't always need to use re-raise items for every single event that doesn't really call for it. First wipe in quite some time. Didn't feel the need to have everyone have re-raise. Been doing Aeonics for over two years, and only ever had maybe 3-4 wipes to the NM in that time. When you have 8~ Nirvana SMNs, you tend to not really ever need reraise, nor care. Your tank party should be the only one dying. If the tank somehow dies, then you have the NM+its adds on you. Tank got one shot somehow, and ads just murdered the SMNs.

You stating a White Mage shouldn't raise their own party, I'll assume you mean other parties. With that in mind, I am unsure if you are a troll, or are legitimate in thinking a White Mage shouldn't help raise or arise people in the unfortunate event that someone does need a raise. Just because they are upset that someone didn't use a reraiser. Why even have the spell in the first place if not to use it. You're doing nothing else while recovering. Why not Light Arts, Celerity, and Arise/Raise 3 the alliance? We even had two WHMs to do it. Yet one WHM was fine with raising whoever they could to recover, while the one wouldn't raise outside their own group.

Sure, it was a fault on the players side for not having reraise, however it doesn't mean you shouldn't raise them just simply because they didn't have Reraise up.

However when the situation arises, and a WHM is asked to Raise, then a WHM should raise. Its not being a douche, or anything of that matter. Its simply asking you to use your MP to raise a team member because of a untimely wipe.

I am unsure why you are being so hostile with your post.

SMNs get native RR2 without having /SCH or /WHM. I don't know of any SMNs that go as /WHM anymore anyway, they almost exclusively go /RDM, with the very rare occasion as /SCH.

K.

Aeonics require specific setups with people doing specific roles. A single WHM in a 12 man alliance is actually preferred since, like you said, only the tank is really getting hit. They aren't cross-healing the alliance, the WHM is solely focusing on the tank and only the tank.

Last Aeonic run I did that I was the tank, the WHM didn't even do anything to me at all, I literally healed myself full time with no issues at all. I even cross healed to party members just to keep hate and when they were too close to AoE range.

In wipe situations the WHM is Arising/Raising their party and alliance. He is saying that SMNs (since I guess he only deals with SMN burns anymore, idk) don't need Raises because they have native RR2.

But in the real game, not everything is SMN burned.

It isn't you. Give it time, you will be on his blocklist soon anyway. I hear he has half of the forum on that list by now.

Yeah, I fixed my post above. I supposed it was my fault for making sure the SMNs didn't reraise themselves with Cait. But I do appreciate what you had mentioned:

That is mainly what I was upset about for that. Not for the wipe itself, just was upset that helping the group recoup was such an tying issue.

Ah. I figured as much. If I was here to flame people directly, I'd of listed names and everything. Is why I excluded it all. Didn't see why that person had to go out of their way to make their post derogatory in an attempt to flame me.

Thank you for your responses, however. I know what I did wrong by being told about the reraises and the sort, I just will be a little careful next time as to avoid situations like these, rather I believe they should be handled differently or not.

Yeah, flaming people intentionally is against the rules here anyway.

He always gets a pass here anyway. Edit: apparently not.

Just don't take it personally, he is the very definition of a toxic player in this game.

Best just to ignore any "advice" he presents.

Don't stress it too much. People make mistakes all the time.

the only reason i could think of why a WHM would start to argue in this situation instead of starting to raise ppl is they have some sort of WHM bot setup that only takes care of his party and he doesn't know how to change it on the fly, or he is actively trying to sabotage the run. anything else doesn't make sense.

It still boggles me how many DDs don’t carry meds..
I always keep several stacks of remedies, panaceas, and food ALWAYS. If SE ever fixed the god damned cool downs on potions I’d probably carry a bunch of those too because I greatly prefer to be independent during runs.

I will admit though that I’m very guilty about not having RR... it’s just such a pain to keep running over to grab a RR Scroll every time, ya know? If they made them stackable? Done. I’m keeping 2 stacks always. But the one-by-one? Or weird Item-Timer? Blehhhh lol.

Depends who the WHM is honestly, and what debuffs/buffs are available to everyone else. Gear matters to a certain degree, but not sucking is the defining factor. Some WHMs are absolutely amazing, and you can have decked out WHMs (gear wise) in your party that are basically invisible as if they are not even there.

Hierarchy for me in any content that matters (or mattered when it was new and 'hard')and again, just my opinion: WHMs--->tank(s)--->support--->debuffs--->dps.

WHM is also the most stressful job. Stress of the content itself, and self-imposed stress to keep up with w/e it is they need to keep up with. Not to mention the 'stress' from useless DDs crying for this and that when all they have to do is point and hit 2 macro 90% of the time.

Of course, everything has to function cohesively and some DPs are better than others. But if you can buff, keep hate off of, and heal/status removals, a sentient frozen turd enough,(if it has decent gear suitable for 2-4 year old endgame...) it will do respectable DPS.

For people who actually PLAY the game and the job, WHM requires, in my opinion, the most skill and speed (reaction time, and anticipation) than any job in this game. You pretty much need to know and understand what your opponent's dangerous moves are and react accordingly. Easier said than done. I usually build my alliances for the 'harder' content we do around the WHMs. Tl;dr it's the hardest job to play to a high level.

Most of the best players at this game, at least that I have seen, are very good WHMs. If you are awesome at WHM, you likely can excel at any other job easily.

Which is why Jet's been topic banned.

I would like to add on to this with: always haste your tank first. (Though technically, second in your haste cycle... your self should always be first.)

I'd also say that having a good enfeebling set is a lower priority than a good enhancing and cursna sets for a new WHM. Since, generally, there's a RDM/GEO there who can/will be doing that.
But also don't sleep on having an enfeebling set.
EDIT: If only for Silence and Silence alone.

Whm is the easiest job to gear up thats relevant so everyone just starting out or trying to get ahead I highly recommend it. Stop wasting time on your shitty job and play whm and get into all the good runs make gil and pimp out w/e job u like just plz no pet jobs or any dumb ***like that lol

I hate that this month's ambu makes me want to buy an Asclepius (because why buy the NQ or the HQ1 when you could buy the HQ2?! /sarcasm).

I would counter that to say that the RDM or SMN (if SMN is in the same party as the tank) should haste instead of the WHM.

It also depends on if there's a BRD in the tank party too, as the BRD should always double haste anyway, and, unless they are a 3 song no + song BRD, double March should cap haste anyway.

In other words, it depends, but WHM shouldn't be the primary haste unless there is no other options.

OP is just here to justify their linkshell argument, the only answer they were looking for is 'yes, a WHM can solo heal dynamis', and they're basing this on a couple runs where they did so successfully. They were no doubt planning on bringing this topic up to the linkshell member they're bullying over it.

Lex summed up most of it; a WHM is thinking and acting far more frequently than any other job. Especially nowadays, when the BRD and COR and potentially even GEO are all DPSing instead of providing additional support.

While it's surely possible for a WHM to do everything, it's also possible to 6man the zone. If you have 12+ people, it's not very fair to put the biggest burden entirely on one of them while the other 11-17 jerk off to their ws damage. Game is meant to be fun, give every party a WHM and stop expecting one person to do all the work.

I wouldn't say that's a good idea in most endgame content. Not that there aren't scenarios where it'd be viable, but even when it is, there are significant gaps in what you can offer. Other parties aren't getting barspells, can't be Erased, have limited AoE healing options, and so on. Nevermind that they'd be working somewhat blind for status effects, and it's setting up a single point of failure for the group.

Past that, it's very dependent on the content and group as a whole, not necessarily the WHM. Being the one "main" healer in Dynamis is a lot more feasible than even a lot of Omen bosses, as those spam a lot of AoE. MP isn't usually a problem, but can be if you do have a lot of raises, or even stuff like overcuring for Cureskin (like last month's Ambu for Head Snatch).

Generally though, support is always going to be more than one person's job, and that extends across an alliance. It should always be expected that people help where they can, and filling in gaps with subjob spells can be what makes a WHM-light setup work nicely.

Raises are probably one of the few routine things that people need to think twice on. Not based on party, but rather, to ensure people are getting Arise if possible. Lotta R1s get tossed out by well-meaning folks when another 15 seconds and some communication would have meant an Arise, and a lot less weakened time.
For a full wipe though, I mean, you get Arise on key people, and then mostly start with other people who can raise when they get up. Party should have nothing to do with it.

you can be the most skilled WHM, have cat like reflexes and know what moves to anticipate and still fail miserably in certain content if your location is too far from the server. don't pick up WHM if you have high latency.