/DRG?

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/DRG?
 Shiva.Anoq
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By Shiva.Anoq 2020-08-19 21:56:56
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What, if any, kind of changes would I need for /DRG? Should I be aiming for more STP or multi attack? Planning on using it for Dyna Sandy because I'm sick of eating dirt when I grab hate and get one shot from counter dmg, so should have all necessary buffs.
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By Crossbones 2020-08-19 22:07:16
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Won't have capped delay reduction without hasso (even with apoc AM I think). Abuse drain 3 and dread spikes to help with counter.
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2020-08-19 22:32:23
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Last Resort caps delay reduction for the ~80% of the time it's up.

However, I agree with Crossbones that unless you're doing wave 3 (where /drg is great), you should use Drain III to keep you alive instead of changing sub.
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 Asura.Crowned
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By Asura.Crowned 2020-08-19 22:51:29
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Instead of /drg, I suggest trying out dirge.
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 Shiva.Anoq
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By Shiva.Anoq 2020-08-20 01:54:06
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Yeah, just wanted to try it out and see how it went. More of an annoyance and just was curious if anyone had tried /drg and if it was worth using on occasion. Thanks for the help all.
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By Crossbones 2020-08-20 10:06:30
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Honestly on the wave 3 boss, as crowned mention, use dirge. With 5 songs we do march march attack acc (for the tp bonus babies) and dirge. Pretty much no one pulls hate ever before boss dies, just not enough time. 50% reduction is massive.
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By Taint 2020-08-20 10:27:44
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For short fights why the hell not. Jumps are pretty fun IMO and you get the WSdmg boost.
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 Asura.Mims
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By Asura.Mims 2020-08-20 10:37:28
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Shiva.Anoq said: »
Planning on using it for Dyna Sandy because I'm sick of eating dirt when I grab hate and get one shot from counter dmg, so should have all necessary buffs.
I really hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the short answer to this problem is simply "git gud."

I wrote a Short Dyna D Primer earlier, and have mentioned the topic before.
To go into a bit more detail for Dyna-Sandy, it is the zone where I go Liberator 100% for wave 1 and 2, so that I can alternate seamlessly between physical and magical WS, depending on eyes.
This also means that I'm facing down NMs with mythic AM3, and Orcish Counterstance is all but guaranteed to be up.

Taking hate on NMs is not an if, it's a when.
I make sure to announce to my LSmates loudly over discord "MIMS IS ON THE NM's LEFT ARM" when we engage Orc NMs, because whenever it turns to face me, whatever poor soul who wasn't paying attention to positioning ends up eating dirt. I have Drain3 HP, Seigan, Third Eye, a high delay weapon even with mythic AM3, and Dread Spikes. That poor dual wielding Thf/Blm doesn't have a chance in hell if I take hate and they are standing in the wrong place. So let the others know where you are going to be, for their own safety.

Now, for your safety. As in the primer above, Drain3 is love, Drain3 is life.

After that, Seigan. People talk about Hasso's haste bonus all the time, and it is significant for 55 seconds out of every 4 minutes and 10 seconds. For the other 3 minutes and 15 seconds, use Seigan.

Seigan will save your life. The mob can't hurt you if it can't hit you. Yes, third eye's duration is random. It may last for 1 attack, it may last for 12 attacks. That is fine, all it really has to do is buy you enough time to get into your DT gear, if you need it.

Now for Orc NMs specifically, engage with Seigan up, and Third Eye down. The reason for this is that Battle Dance will wipe Third Eye leaving it on recast for when you take hate. So leave it down, and the moment that Orc turns to face you, put Third Eye up. With Drain3 you should have enough breathing room even with taking a few hits to the face. Then when you do take hate, just alternate between Third Eye and DT gear as feels safe for you. If you feel safer fulltiming DT gear with an NM in your face, that's fine. If you feel more ballsy about what you can get away with that is fine too, just make sure you are fighting like your life depends on it.
Because it does.

Dark Knight can be exceedingly durable if you let it. My LSmates used to crack jokes when I popped 3 or 4 hour food before Dynamis, and would place bets on how quickly I would faceplant and lose the expensive buff. They don't crack those jokes anymore.

All that said, /Drg is an interesting subjob. I played around with it in Dynamis before SE gave it the WSD trait or tweaked Dirge, but I don't think those changes would change my opinion now. High Jump is neat, but it is hampered by it's 2 minute recast timer. I find myself needing defensive options far more frequently than that, and the fact that I can fit 4 recasts of Third Eye in the space of one High Jump recast suits my playstyle far better. Even against wave3 NMs and the boss I would rather have more defensive control with Third Eye than a hate shedding tool every 2 minutes.

All that said, I think /Drg is actually pretty neat for short zerged fights now with it's 7% weaponskill bonus. For a long event like Dynamis where I have to have more flexibility, I'm /Sam 100%.
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-08-20 11:33:49
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For Dyna if survival is your issue there are a few things you can do. High Jumps timer is too damn long without merits.

You can use these:
-Apocalypse
-Ride Drain 3/Hybrid as much as possible.
*These wont stop you from getting 1 shot on 1 attack round though...

-Turn as soon as you can to avoid counters.

If /SAM isnt cutting it for you:
-/NIN for shadows, enmity loss helps a bit while losing shadows and hate will bounce around. Also your recasts wont be messed up from Hasso/Seigen. They will also soak up some counter attacks giving you time to turn around.

I really hate the store tp loss /NIN though.
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By Odin.Kingofthenorth 2020-08-20 13:03:38
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Asura.Crowned said: »
Instead of /drg, I suggest trying out dirge.
Dirge is so amazing and under used.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2020-08-20 16:45:57
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Crossbones said: »
Honestly on the wave 3 boss, as crowned mention, use dirge. With 5 songs we do march march attack acc (for the tp bonus babies) and dirge. Pretty much no one pulls hate ever before boss dies, just not enough time. 50% reduction is massive.
You shouldnt need double march if you have haste 2 at all tbh honor march plus haste 2 should be perfectly fine. Dirge is underused by people(even though I hate dirge) its better overall for hate. Even on shorter fights I dont think /dog is worth it all you gain is wsd +7% you trade off med. And hasso for that. Sadly if you using cala your gonna pull hate I personally dont see jumps being that great of a trade off with the long cooldown. Jumps maybe fun but I dont its not gonna change the fact you gonna be one of 4 people high on hate list.
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 Bismarck.Firedemon
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2020-08-20 17:40:25
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Dirge that ***up like the others have posted, it's fantastic.
 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2020-08-20 17:46:22
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Dirge that ***up like the others have posted, it's fantastic.
Dirge its end all be all it also helps very little in longer fights. Even with 4 merits into muted soul it seems like it just doesnt matter anymore tbh. I legit think enmity needs to be changed also or enmity from damage needs to be fixed.
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2020-08-20 17:55:42
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Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Dirge that ***up like the others have posted, it's fantastic.
Dirge its end all be all it also helps very little in longer fights. Even with 4 merits into muted soul it seems like it just doesnt matter anymore tbh. I legit think enmity needs to be changed also or enmity from damage needs to be fixed.

If they plan on continuing to add fights similar to the wave3 boss and its incredibly high HP, then I'd agree, enmity from damage needs addressed. If you're pulling hate in any fight shorter than that AND you aren't in the old zones (such as some unity fights) AND you're using the tools at hand...then you need to adjust what you do. That's a lot of "AND"'s- but it does boil down to pacing and using what we have if both the DDs and Tank are playing at a high level.

An unrelated issue to hate management is the hate reset mechanic many targets have these days. And if you drop a monster Torcleaver right after a hate reset move- that's completely on the DD, not the tank, not the wrong buffs, not lack of /DRG. I'd wager half the time someone says "I pulled hate and died" its actually due to a hate reset move they weren't aware of or ignored.

Yes, a DD's job is to deal damage, but to deal damage the whole fight, not just the first 20 seconds go full ham and die, then be out of commission for the next 3-5 minutes. If that means you have to adjust how you DD, then that's on you. If its a question of poor tanking, then they need to step up their game.
 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2020-08-20 18:35:09
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »
Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Dirge that ***up like the others have posted, it's fantastic.
Dirge its end all be all it also helps very little in longer fights. Even with 4 merits into muted soul it seems like it just doesnt matter anymore tbh. I legit think enmity needs to be changed also or enmity from damage needs to be fixed.

If they plan on continuing to add fights similar to the wave3 boss and its incredibly high HP, then I'd agree, enmity from damage needs addressed. If you're pulling hate in any fight shorter than that AND you aren't in the old zones (such as some unity fights) AND you're using the tools at hand...then you need to adjust what you do. That's a lot of "AND"'s- but it does boil down to pacing and using what we have if both the DDs and Tank are playing at a high level.

An unrelated issue to hate management is the hate reset mechanic many targets have these days. And if you drop a monster Torcleaver right after a hate reset move- that's completely on the DD, not the tank, not the wrong buffs, not lack of /DRG. I'd wager half the time someone says "I pulled hate and died" its actually due to a hate reset move they weren't aware of or ignored.

Yes, a DD's job is to deal damage, but to deal damage the whole fight, not just the first 20 seconds go full ham and die, then be out of commission for the next 3-5 minutes. If that means you have to adjust how you DD, then that's on you. If its a question of poor tanking, then they need to step up their game.
While I agree with this at what point is it a waste to super buff DD's then? If a I get hit with a hate reset such as something like albumen or I sit and wait for a tank to grab max amount of hate and still pull hate its not on dd either at that point. I dont think /drg fixes the issue at all in the grand idea of it all. Wave 3 is weird because even when you die you dont lose hate. One of the massive problems and things I hate about this game is cors not pulling hate at all with leaden on bosses. Magic weaponskills need to pull hate. If that were the case I dont think it would feel so bad to do damage. Damage has become a problem in this game for sure Look at kaja/nageling. Im 100% sure you can pretty much be in a DT set and still drop the same amount of damage without trying. At what point is Cala/nagleing not worth using anymore because of hate mechanics in this game? If its to save the tank from losing hate like you said being dead and weakness for 3-5 mins is ***. But should melees be using weaker weapons to make up for this? Cors never have to touch adds yet never ever pull hate on boss which has always been a problem. 99k salutes should be pulling hate at one point to fix some of that and it just doesn't. Yes your right if I drop a 55k torcleaver after everyone is hate reset its my fault. If a pld drops 1hr and what not its not even enough to pull off a AM3 empy from sam or drk at this point even after a hate reset. I think im gonna try a /drg run myself and see how it goes because I really been interested in how good/bad it would be same with nageling setup. I don't think tanks are bad because of a hate reset. I do however stand form on the whole dd's do too much damage without a way outside of /drg to get rid of some of that hate. I 100% disagree with the /nin thing because you lose so much damage and what not for the some setups its not worth it at all.
(Sorry for the run on post but yea its something ive been wanting to look into.)
 Bismarck.Firedemon
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2020-08-20 19:00:19
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With a 2 minute cooldown, High Jump is doing a whole lot of jack ***for a decked out Caladbolg DRK, I'll tell you that much. Unless of course the fight is stupid short, in that case who cares what you sub.
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 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2020-08-20 19:07:11
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Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
With a 2 minute cooldown, High Jump is doing a whole lot of jack ***for a decked out Caladbolg DRK, I'll tell you that much. Unless of course the fight is stupid short, in that case who cares what you sub.
Which is kinda my thinking behind it I just dont feel like it'll be worth it in the end.
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