BG-Wiki JSE Neck Sub Craft Correction

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2010-09-08
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BG-Wiki JSE Neck Sub Craft Correction
 Asura.Icilies
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By Asura.Icilies 2020-08-17 14:25:58
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After getting at least 1000 recorded attempts I want to finally come out and say JSE necks seem to be a Tier 1 Synth and not a Tier 0.

I'll post screenshots for the three necks I pulled the data from that total 1084 attempts with a final HQ% of 11.8%. This is a combined number of HQ1 and HQ2.

It seems the coconut rusk may have an impact on the likelihood of an HQ2 but we would need a large sample size of JSE neck attempts without using food.

This would make the subcraft for each neck a cap of 59 or lower and not 70. I'm not familiar with how it goes to test this further for it to go onto the BG-Wiki website but if anyone wants to let me know I'll look into it.

Or we can discuss results more here. I'll post screenshots below.

Thoughts?
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 Sylph.Funkworkz
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By Sylph.Funkworkz 2020-08-17 15:22:53
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I think this is enough data to update the pages. I am very confident that all of the sub crafts will be the same across the board. That is how SE has typically implemented similar recipes that have been added at the same time to multiple crafts.

Unless this was changed at some point, the way to find a level (albeit sub craft or main craft) is to do the following:

For a sub craft such as these necks, the person will need to be at least level 83 in the main craft, as they are level 110 main. This is verifiable as they are on the comprehensive NPC list.

While leveling the sub craft required, starting at level 1 (doesn't have to be 1 but it cannot hurt to be thorough), get the synthesis materials and head outside to mobs. Engage a mob. Be far enough away where you will not swing if it wanders too close yet close enough to it where you will not disengage if it wanders too far.

Attempt the synthesis while remaining engaged. You will receive one of two messages: One will say you cannot do that action now. The other will say you do not meet the level requirements.

If you receive the former, you are within the 27 required levels to attempt the synthesis. Your level + 27 = sub craft cap. You will not attempt the synth and you will not lose the items. If you receive the other message that your too low, level up once and repeat.
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By Mrxi 2020-08-17 16:14:24
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If this was with using the Escutcheon enhancement + rusk + rings you can subtract 10 from that % i think? so puts it closer to t0
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By Chimerawizard 2020-08-17 16:56:36
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Mrxi said: »
If this was with using the Escutcheon enhancement + rusk + rings you can subtract 10 from that % i think? so puts it closer to t0
subcraft skill+10 stops at 70, so it's basically ignored by all since you'll most likely already have 70 subcraft skill. This is also why he's saying the subcrafts are <60 since he can hit 11+ skill on both main & subcrafts.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-08-17 17:05:16
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I can't believe there's no one out there with a shield without subcrafts maxed that would've verified this long ago.

Especially anyone that got banned and made a new shield recently
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By Boshi 2020-08-17 20:45:21
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I thought we just figured out they were T1 from the high rates people got the first week they came out.
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By Mrxi 2020-08-18 00:43:02
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Chimerawizard said: »
Mrxi said: »
If this was with using the Escutcheon enhancement + rusk + rings you can subtract 10 from that % i think? so puts it closer to t0
subcraft skill+10 stops at 70, so it's basically ignored by all since you'll most likely already have 70 subcraft skill. This is also why he's saying the subcrafts are <60 since he can hit 11+ skill on both main & subcrafts.
I realize what he is saying and I'm saying you have to factor in the gear. so - 10 from that 11.8% puts you at t0.
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By Asura.Icilies 2020-08-18 02:34:00
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Mrxi said: »
Chimerawizard said: »
Mrxi said: »
If this was with using the Escutcheon enhancement + rusk + rings you can subtract 10 from that % i think? so puts it closer to t0
subcraft skill+10 stops at 70, so it's basically ignored by all since you'll most likely already have 70 subcraft skill. This is also why he's saying the subcrafts are <60 since he can hit 11+ skill on both main & subcrafts.
I realize what he is saying and I'm saying you have to factor in the gear. so - 10 from that 11.8% puts you at t0.

This info is not right. You don’t gain that boost. I think you misunderstand. And the food and shield buffs are not actually percentage boost.
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By Mrxi 2020-08-18 09:53:36
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Asura.Icilies said: »
Mrxi said: »
Chimerawizard said: »
Mrxi said: »
If this was with using the Escutcheon enhancement + rusk + rings you can subtract 10 from that % i think? so puts it closer to t0
subcraft skill+10 stops at 70, so it's basically ignored by all since you'll most likely already have 70 subcraft skill. This is also why he's saying the subcrafts are <60 since he can hit 11+ skill on both main & subcrafts.
I realize what he is saying and I'm saying you have to factor in the gear. so - 10 from that 11.8% puts you at t0.

This info is not right. You don’t gain that boost. I think you misunderstand. And the food and shield buffs are not actually percentage boost.
No. I understand and have done over 10,000 myself and yes it is a +% like it says on it. success is multiplicative
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By Mrxi 2020-08-18 10:13:55
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Ok lets say i am wrong, maybe you can explain more how these tests were done? are you factoring in the gear?
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By Sylph.Funkworkz 2020-08-18 10:55:11
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JP wiki says escutcheon's HQ effects stack when using the enchantment, so it gives a +5 increase.

Furthermore, JP wiki estimates that the increased HQ change they performed in the September 2017 update appears to be a 1% increase. Data is based on a 1000 synth test.

http://wiki.ffo.jp/html/843.html
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 Asura.Icilies
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By Asura.Icilies 2020-08-18 12:47:22
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Mrxi said: »
Ok lets say i am wrong, maybe you can explain more how these tests were done? are you factoring in the gear?

There is a reason its not +%. The total plus skill is not indicative of a percentage. Below is data from a real T0. You can also follow this link to see the data that already exist to prove this.This is using on HQ gear/food

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/130586-CraftyMath-v2-Post-September-2017-Update/page3

The general consensus is the HQ gear/food doesnt stack or there is an explicit reason with it does not asay "+%" on any of the boosting items. The most likely is it changes the formula for a to a 256/512 base fraction instead of 64 when +HQ items are active
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By Asura.Geriond 2020-08-18 12:54:34
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I remember testing that indicated that each +1 to HQ rate added 1/256 to the final HQ rate (though I don't remember if they had enough trials to nail it down exactly).

So, if you had a T0 with a 1/64 (1.56%) rate of HQ1, adding +5 would bring it to 9/256 (3.66%)
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By Asura.Icilies 2020-08-18 12:55:43
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Asura.Geriond said: »
I remember testing that indicated that each +1 to HQ rate added 1/256 to the final HQ rate.

So, if you had a T0 with a 1/64 (1.56%) rate of HQ1, adding +5 would bring it to 9/256 (3.66%)

That is essentially what that BG forum eludes to
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By Mrxi 2020-08-18 13:24:19
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Sooo... are you factoring in the gear + food? which did you use? so that's - 10 of 11.8% = 1.8% t0 if your using the best gear and food
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By Asura.Icilies 2020-08-18 13:34:20
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Mrxi said: »
Sooo... are you factoring in the gear + food? which did you use? so that's - 10 of 11.8% = 1.8% t0 if your using the best gear and food

Yes all food and gear. Shield/Rings/Rusk. It's not a flat percentage boost. Read the last few post which explain the math that give an explanation.

I also posted what a T0 numbers actually look like. You have to click the spoiler
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By Sylph.Takutu 2020-08-19 17:13:50
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Hi.

Dynamis necks have a subcraft level of 55. Knowing that you can only attempt a synth where your skill is <= 27 levels, I leveled the WW sub for the Clothcraft necks, and tried to do the synth at each level.

WW27, as you can see in the log I was unable to even attempt the synth as it was beyond my current craft level.


WW28, ka-boom. I tested two necks just to make sure:




This means Dynamis Necks are easily T1-able, needing 121 main craft/66 subcraft.

I have already given Funkworkz this info on Discord.
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 Asura.Icilies
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By Asura.Icilies 2020-08-20 23:57:31
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Thank you. I'm glad the data helped get us updated info
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By Chimerawizard 2020-08-23 04:50:52
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Asura.Icilies said: »
There is a reason its not +%. The total plus skill is not indicative of a percentage. Below is data from a real T0. You can also follow this link to see the data that already exist to prove this.This is using on HQ gear/food

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/130586-CraftyMath-v2-Post-September-2017-Update/page3

The general consensus is the HQ gear/food doesnt stack or there is an explicit reason with it does not asay "+%" on any of the boosting items. The most likely is it changes the formula for a to a 256/512 base fraction instead of 64 when +HQ items are active
Instead of posting there, where the thread hasn't moved since 2018, I'll post my thoughts here.

rate
T0: 4/256 (1/64)
T1: 16/256 (1/16)
T2: 64/256 (1/4)
T3: 128/256 (1/2)
HQ+1= +1/256

quality
Highest HQ tier +10% per HQ+ taken from the lowest HQ tier.

That'd put the HQ2 of JSE necks to 50% ... which the commodore charm in OP seems disagree adamantly with.
It also puts Shadow Gem at 1/8 instead of 1/16 base which after 1500 attempts seems to be right where that sits w/ max HQ+.
The HQ2 of that synth seems to still be at 3/16.
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By Asura.Icilies 2020-08-23 11:29:34
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Yes, you summed up my post stating the base changes to 256. The HQ gear adds to that base and not a flat percentage to HQ.
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