Riot 4: Rocky Vs. Ivan

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Riot 4: Rocky vs. Ivan
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-29 13:03:59
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
So all protesters are antifa?
No, just the rioters.
Some are boogaloos and 3%s it seems.
Sure. Just like some Neo-Nazis that show up to Republican events are planted by leftist groups. Always going to be extremists around trying to infiltrate and stir things up to make the other side look bad, but in this case the legitimate rioters are doing enough damage on their own.
Minneapolis police identify 'Umbrella Man' who helped incite George Floyd riots, warrant says

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Minneapolis (CNN)Minneapolis police have identified a suspect whom they believe helped initiate the riots and destruction in the city following the killing of George Floyd.

According to a search warrant filed earlier this week, which was obtained by CNN affiliate WCCO, the man is associated with the "Aryan Cowboys," which the Anti-Defamation League lists as a White supremacist prison and street gang. The warrant does not label them as a White supremacist group, but describes them as a "known prison gang out of Minnesota and Kentucky." On its Facebook page, the group says it does not care, "about a person's color."

CNN is not naming the suspect, who was dubbed "Umbrella Man" following the demonstrations, as police said no charges had been filed as of Tuesday afternoon....
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-29 13:07:42
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Paged!

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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-07-29 14:18:51
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The cool thing about rioting is that you don’t have to riot if you don’t want to, even if some dude with a black umbrella tells you to.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-29 17:09:23
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Oh he was rioting all by himself Rav.

I honestly missed all the anti-war demonstrations that turned into riots. Only riot I have ever been in was at college. I forget what it was about, college riots being like that it seems.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-29 17:13:29
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Governor Says Feds Are Withdrawing From Portland
Not so fast, says acting DHS secretary


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(Newser) – Oregon Gov. Kate Brown says she has reached a deal with administration officials that will see the "occupying force" of federal agents removed from downtown Portland. Brown said Wednesday that agents from the US Marshals Service and US Customs and Border Protection will begin a phased withdrawal Thursday ... Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler—who was tear-gassed by federal agents last week—hailed what he called the end of an "illegal occupation."

Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf confirmed that an agreement had been made, although he described it in very different terms. "We are not removing any law enforcement while our facilities and law enforcement remain under attack," ... President Trump said ... "Either they’re gonna clean up Portland soon, or the federal government is going up, and we’re gonna do it for them," ...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-30 11:18:43
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Seattle police say explosives were found in van at protests over weekend

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Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan and Police Chief Carmen Best revealed at a Wednesday news conference that police discovered explosives, smoke bombs and other weapons in a van stationed at the weekend protests.

Saturday’s demonstration, promoted by the Youth Liberation Front in support of protesters in Portland, erupted in violence. Best said over the weekend that officers used blast balls, pepper spray and 40mm sponge-tip rounds, while some in the crowd of protesters broke windows and started fires. At one point, she said, someone threw an explosive that blew an 8-inch hole through a wall of the Police Department’s East Precinct.

Seattle Fire Chief Harold Scoggins said Saturday evening that his team responded to multiple fires, including one that destroyed four trailers at a construction site.

On Wednesday, Best told reporters that officers saw a van following a group of protesters around 4:30 p.m. Saturday, before it stopped outside the East Precinct. At about the same time, she said, explosions started going off outside the precinct.

Best said a witness later told police they had seen baseball bats and explosives inside the same van earlier in the day.

Police later impounded the van and, after obtaining a search warrant, discovered firework pyrotechnics, smoke bombs, stun guns, bear and pepper spray, makeshift spike strips and gas masks, Best said.

No arrests have been made in connection to the explosives in the van, she said.

But she called what was found in the van “evidence that not everyone who comes to these protests are peaceful. Peaceful protesters do not show up in a van full of … explosives.”

Most of the crowd protested peacefully, Durkan later said, but the group associated with the explosives seemed “well-organized with this kind of destructive power.”

Seattle Police Sgt. James Lee, who works with the department’s arson/bomb squad, said his team also found remnants of a Molotov cocktail that exploded near King County’s juvenile detention facility, which is under construction.

“(The bear spray) is causing burns and itching and stinging to (officers’) face and exposed skin,” Lee said at the news conference. “This lasts much longer than the … type of pepper spray that police use and is much stronger. It is not safe for use on humans.”

Best said 59 officers were injured during the weekend protests.

“We have been in an unprecedented time in our city,” Durkan said at the news conference. “And one of the unprecedented things we’re experiencing is the historic civil rights reckoning, not just in Seattle but in this country. … Peaceful protests are good for America and good for our city. They push us to be better. They are a core tenet of who we are as a country.”

But, she added, “arson, destruction and violence have occurred and they undermine the push and need and voice for systemic change.”

Durkan ended the news conference by asking protesters to keep the peace in the city, noting that the violence is “sowing those divisions that the president wants” and “playing right into his hands.”

She also spoke of her commitment to making changes to law enforcement in the city.

“I believe wholeheartedly in reshaping the Police Department,” she said. “Chief Best and I have talked about how we can re-imagine policing and make sure that this city leads the way for the nation. … But again, we must stop engaging in hateful language and destruction. We have to move beyond that.”

The city’s Office of Police Accountability will continue to investigate the weekend complaints made against officers in hopes of holding police accountable, Durkan said.

“2020 has been a tough year,” she said. “And it’s going to continue to be tough. But the way we get through it, the way we come out the other end, is if we find a way to say, ‘We do not just come back, but we come back better.'”

Durkan is facing a recall movement led by people who have been protesting for racial justice and police accountability. On Wednesday, the King County judge who ruled earlier this month that the petition against Durkan could proceed stuck by that decision.

In response to the petition, Durkan said Wednesday, “I was elected to be Mayor of Seattle. It’s a democracy and if some time the voters decide they don’t want me, that’s alright, too.”



I can't wait for the usual suspects to paint this as an "alt-right attempt to destroy Seattle" or whatever excuse is in vogue now.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-30 11:22:10
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Wouldn't be surprised.

Some time in september: "remember those "explosives" that were "found" in a "suspiciously obvious" van with an "orgy of evidence" turns out they were planted by white nationalist (guys name here)"
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-30 11:24:07
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It's already started.

Let me guess, 9/11 was an inside job, wasn't it?
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-30 11:27:13
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Wouldn't be surprise is exactly what it is. Wouldn't be surprised, a statement about a possibility. Not about a fact, or the past.

If it turns out to be the case, You'll be exasperated, I'll be "un-surprised"
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-30 11:28:47
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Yes, I would be surprised because I don't think it falls within the realm of reality.

You, on the other hand, seem to expect it. Almost to the point of hoping.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-30 11:33:28
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Not "expecting it" not "wanting it" not "cheering for it"

Merely "unsurprised" by it.
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By Viciouss 2020-07-30 11:42:14
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Yes, I would be surprised because I don't think it falls within the realm of reality.

You, on the other hand, seem to expect it. Almost to the point of hoping.

You don't think it's within the realm of reality that alt right groups are sewing chaos in these cities? Despite numerous arrests of members of said groups, you think it's just one side that's responsible?

Also, there goes another fake allegation of hoping for a certain outcome.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-30 11:45:12
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Viciouss said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Yes, I would be surprised because I don't think it falls within the realm of reality.

You, on the other hand, seem to expect it. Almost to the point of hoping.

You don't think it's within the realm of reality that alt right groups are sewing chaos in these cities? Despite numerous arrests of members of said groups, you think it's just one side that's responsible?

Also, there goes another fake allegation of hoping for a certain outcome.
If there were arrest, prove them. Nice thing about arrest warrants, it's public record.
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By Viciouss 2020-07-30 12:05:42
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White Supremacists arrested in Richmond riots

This is breaking news really, it just happened a few days ago.

Group arrested in Vegas, FBI warns of far right groups posing as Antifa and BLM

This was the big one in late May/early June, the groups were organizing plans to incite violence and make it look like it was the left doing all the damage.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-07-30 12:17:38
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I thought we already acknowledged that this was a common tactic for extremists on both sides. Don’t even pretend that a sizable majority of the rioters are far right-wing plants, though.
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By Viciouss 2020-07-30 12:34:29
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I thought we already acknowledged that this was a common tactic for extremists on both sides. Don’t even pretend that a sizable majority of the rioters are far right-wing plants, though.

I did too. You'd have to ask KN, who earlier said that all the rioters were Antifa.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-30 16:59:58
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Viciouss said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I thought we already acknowledged that this was a common tactic for extremists on both sides. Don’t even pretend that a sizable majority of the rioters are far right-wing plants, though.

I did too. You'd have to ask KN, who earlier said that all the rioters were Antifa.
And I was corrected.

I should have said nearly all because you cannot say 1 or 2 outliers out of nearly a thousand incidents discounts a group from being the cause of the nearly thousand incidents.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you said that because of those 1 or 2 outliers that they are all outliers.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2020-07-30 18:05:16
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Leaked Documents Show Police Knew Far-Right Extremists Were the Real Threat at Protests, Not “Antifa”
An analysis of leaked law enforcement documents reveals an obsession with “antifa” despite evidence of threats of violence to police and protesters.

The Intercept

Its long....

Interesting bit:
Quote:
... on May 29, two days before Trump tweeted that antifa would be labeled a terrorist organization and Barr issued his DOJ statement, the president’s own DHS analysts issued an open source intelligence report detailing how a white supremacist channel on Telegram, an encrypted messaging service, was encouraging followers to capitalize on the unrest by targeting the police with Molotov cocktails and firearms.

“The use of firearms greatly influences the scale and intensity of these events,” a source in the group, titled “National Accelerationist Revival,” wrote on May 27, advising followers to break police lines “with cocktails, chainsaws, and firearms.” At the time, DHS reported, the group included more than 3,400 subscribers. “Looting and shoplifting are both cool and whites should be doing it way more,” the source went on. “When the laws no longer benefit you, break them for personal gain. If you don’t feel like buying something, steal it. If you don’t feel like driving slow, drive fast. If you don’t like someone, hurt them.”

“We ought to revel in the destruction of the police state,” they wrote. “It is just as necessary to break down the police state and the system of control as it is to spread racial hatred.” ...
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-30 18:10:01
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Chanti, what have we talked about about listening to stories about anonymous sources?

Haven't you learned your lessons from the past nearly 4 years by now?
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By Viciouss 2020-07-30 18:13:32
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Antifa has been the scapegoat since day 1 when Trump first poured gasoline on the fire during the Minneapolis protests, despite having almost no presence there.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-07-30 18:13:54
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Viciouss said: »
Antifa has been the scapegoat since day 1 when Trump first poured gasoline on the fire during the Minneapolis protests, despite having almost no presence there.
Ok Nadler.
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By Viciouss 2020-07-30 18:35:04
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Viciouss said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I thought we already acknowledged that this was a common tactic for extremists on both sides. Don’t even pretend that a sizable majority of the rioters are far right-wing plants, though.

I did too. You'd have to ask KN, who earlier said that all the rioters were Antifa.

Seems appropriate.
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By Asura.Saevel 2020-07-30 19:02:08
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »


I can't wait for the usual suspects to paint this as an "alt-right attempt to destroy Seattle" or whatever excuse is in vogue now.


They will argue it was "peaceful" explosives meant for a peaceful protest.
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By Prong 2020-07-30 19:02:11
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I'm really stating to think that many of our arguments simply come from, personal definitions of topics. This was proven by the news channel conflict. In my mind, it's unfathomable someone cannot count non-24/7 news as news, but it seems there are more than one here that do, so maybe it's just a difference in definition.

That being said, just watching the ongoing riots and how one side is almost 100% blaming "federal agent" or police presence for the violence, when from what I see, there was already violence occurring, which is why the authorities had to arrive in the first place.

Now, this question is for those who think cops should just withdraw, not use pepper spray on rioters, etc: (And please don't filibuster until you aren't even answering the question anymore) ~ There are obviously rioters, protesters, whatever you want to call them, that are breaking laws that at any other given time would be punishable by law, whether you feel those laws are egregious or not. Now, when there is a protest or march or riot and you feel it is justified, is your opinion that all authority figures should simply step back and let the masses do whatever they want during this time, until the masses decide enough is enough? And if not, how would you instruct police to quell angry, often violent crowds without the use of force?
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-30 19:14:59
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It's a gimmie; address WHY they're protesting, maybe.

Seriously, very reasonable demands. Give more jobs to social workers and more programs, more homelessness aid etc etc etc use the cut funds from the PD to do it. Just like they want. Protests stop, riots go away "like a miracle" they'll just go away.

Throw chauven under the bus, *** em. Throw breonna taylors murders under the bus too. Throw em all under the bus, with huge public displays, *** their rights, make a show of it.

Then give them their real trials after everyone forgot why they were mad in the first place. You all have the attention span of a snail. It's not a hard task to accomplish they do it all day every day.

If you don't "like" that answer: have the police put on their gear and arrest the rioters. without assaulting them, with their god damn cameras on. arrest any protester who specifically interferes they will have proof, wear your camera. It's that simple.
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By Prong 2020-07-30 19:19:11
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Seriously, very reasonable demands. Give more jobs to social workers and more programs, more homelessness aid etc etc etc use the cut funds from the PD to do it. Just like they want. Protests stop, riots go away "like a miracle" they'll just go away.

Even if this was possible it would take years. I even doubt the rioters have the staying power for that. Looking for more of an immediate solution.

Asura.Eiryl said: »
If you don't "like" that answer: have the police put on their gear and arrest the rioters. without assaulting them, with their god damn cameras on. arrest any protester who specifically interferes they will have proof, wear your camera. It's that simple.

Ok, but "how?" How do you arrest a man (or woman) without using force when they fight back and will not allow you to put on the cuffs (camera on), or, if they are swinging/throwing objects at you?
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-30 19:21:59
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"taking years" it's not that you implement it, it's that you agree to the demand to do it, right now.

As long as it's on camera, that you acted accordingly, there is no problem.

You targeted a proven "rioter" and met the occasion with the necessary level of "force".
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By Viciouss 2020-07-30 19:23:50
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There was nothing going on in Portland that local LEOs couldn't handle. If they needed help, they had help available to them in the form of the National Guard. And there is nothing the Guard can't handle. Sending in Customs and Border Patrol agents has resulted in more violence and destruction, not less. They are less equipped, and less trained, than the Guard. The only reason they are there is because Trump wants to look like he is doing something (he isn't), and he can't mobilize the Guard, he learned that the stupid way. As long as the CBP is there, the riots will continue.
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By Prong 2020-07-30 19:27:14
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
"taking years" it's not that you implement it, it's that you agree to the demand to do it, right now.

As long as it's on camera, that you acted accordingly, there is no problem.

You targeted a proven "rioter" and met the occasion with the necessary level of "force".

Well the problems there also is, when you give into every demand of a mob, that sets a precedent. So, the next mob who wants to be paid $2,000 a month without working, simply because they draw a breath, you can't give them that. But, it worked before, so they just go on rioting indefinitely? Also, they could "promise" things then, months down the road, make up 100 reasons why they cannot be implemented as agreed. Which, could work for the meantime I suppose.

And the camera/necessary force thing is what I mean about definitions. What I view as necessary force I can guarantee Chanti would not. I mean, you cannot get much less "forceful" than pepper spray and that is one of the methods the mob and Democrat mayors are attacking, camera or no camera. What would they view as acceptable force?
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