It is someone elses fault. We could easily have a ventilator for every man woman and child if it didn't cost millions of dollars and thousands of acres of land to store them.
God Bless Capitalism.
Coronavirus Death Toll Estimation USA
Coronavirus death toll estimation USA
DirectX said: »
There will be open source ventilator designs after this mess. Storage should be funded by the central government and cost as little as possible.
If they can keep millions of barrels of oil in storage, they can keep medical equipment surely.
If they can keep millions of barrels of oil in storage, they can keep medical equipment surely.
Hindsight is 20/20. That should have been done long ago, particularly after H1N1.
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They sell / artificially inflate price with shortages of oil.
Storing medical supplies doesn't generate money. Just wastes money.
Storing medical supplies doesn't generate money. Just wastes money.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
They sell / artificially inflate price with shortages of oil.
Storing medical supplies doesn't generate money. Just wastes money.
Storing medical supplies doesn't generate money. Just wastes money.
I'm not sure I agree with the "just wastes money" part but the government has no problems doing that anyway. Might as well waste money on something productive for once.
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kireek said: »
Reminder that Cuomo was in warned in 2015 by the New York State Dept of Health about a critical lack of ventilators during a pandemic. He made the decision not to order them and this is the excuse he gave back then:
Link to the official NYC health board below.
At the time he didn't buy more ventilators because "no matter how many we get it won't be enough" and so got no extra, now he says 40k is how many he needs and it's someone else's fault.
https://www.health.ny.gov/regulations/task_force/reports_publications/docs/ventilator_guidelines_faqs.pdf
Link to the official NYC health board below.
Quote:
Q: Can the State stockpile as many ventilators as would be needed in a severe pandemic?
A:Even if New York State purchases additional ventilators, the demand would quickly outpace supply in a severe pandemic. No matter how many ventilators are available, in a severe pandemic there will be shortages because so many people will be sick at the same time. In addition,even with enough ventilators, a sufficient number of trained staff may not be available to operate them, particularly because health care workers will be among the ill.
A:Even if New York State purchases additional ventilators, the demand would quickly outpace supply in a severe pandemic. No matter how many ventilators are available, in a severe pandemic there will be shortages because so many people will be sick at the same time. In addition,even with enough ventilators, a sufficient number of trained staff may not be available to operate them, particularly because health care workers will be among the ill.
At the time he didn't buy more ventilators because "no matter how many we get it won't be enough" and so got no extra, now he says 40k is how many he needs and it's someone else's fault.
https://www.health.ny.gov/regulations/task_force/reports_publications/docs/ventilator_guidelines_faqs.pdf
What? That links to some FAQs. Please point out where it states anywhere that it serves as a warning to Cuomo, and also where it shows a decision by him not to order any ventilators. In fact, if you do a CTRL-F search, Cuomo's name doesn't appear anywhere on that page.
Kireek has tried and failed many times to blame Cuomo for his covid response, which has been highly lauded and seen his approval numbers skyrocket. Hia daily briefings are even being carried by Fox now, which must drive kireek and Trump crazy.
Bro why go so low, I'd say a full 500 million people die from this in the USA alone!
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Why we will never have an accurate count:
Coroners worry Covid-19 test shortages could lead to uncounted deaths
CNN
Coroners worry Covid-19 test shortages could lead to uncounted deaths
CNN
Considering the midwest hasn't been saturated yet, and the amount of people that are not listening to orders to stay at home, I'm going to estimate that we'll see 1 million (queue Doctor Evil).
18 years in law enforcement, I have zero faith in people. My estimate is a low-ball as well; I wouldn't be surprised to see 2~3 million deaths by Dec 31.
18 years in law enforcement, I have zero faith in people. My estimate is a low-ball as well; I wouldn't be surprised to see 2~3 million deaths by Dec 31.
I don't know how rural areas are going to fare. On one hand, they are already socially distanced by the population density. On the other hand, they still gather in church and their medical infrastructure is weaker.
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It's just so. impossible.
A whole town could stay indoors for 3 months, have absolutely zero infections. and one idiot rolls through, hits walmart and now the whole town has it.
Never safe until you've already survived. There will always be that Typhoid Mary. Everyone is *** for a year till there's a vaccine.
A whole town could stay indoors for 3 months, have absolutely zero infections. and one idiot rolls through, hits walmart and now the whole town has it.
Never safe until you've already survived. There will always be that Typhoid Mary. Everyone is *** for a year till there's a vaccine.
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I don't know how rural areas are going to fare. On one hand, they are already socially distanced by the population density. On the other hand, they still gather in church and their medical infrastructure is weaker.
My area has no immediate trauma center, Oklahoma really only has two: OU medical in OKC and then Tulsa's depending upon which doc is on is where you have it.
Oklahoma is 8th in the nation for churches per capita. We have a high density of Walmart as well, hell my small town has 2 super centers and a Neighborhood Market for a 10 square mile area. There are many in my town that still believes this is a hoax and are content with going about their lives like there's not a highly contagious virus on the loose.
I'm not optimistic about the survival rate here. Wheat, dairy, and beef products may see a spike in prices depending upon who all gets hit and how bad.
By this time next year everyone will be dead and it'll be the end of the world.
What few survivors remain will have to hide from the COVID zombies that roam the country.
What few survivors remain will have to hide from the COVID zombies that roam the country.
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honestly Kireek.... your not wrong. talking to some dems these days.... i swear its like they want us to fail and die. like people are literally cheering because they think the USA Is doing the worst of any country with this virus....
it boggles the mind.. they'd literally prefer death over orange man.
it boggles the mind.. they'd literally prefer death over orange man.
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Asura.Saevel said: »
By this time next year everyone will be dead and it'll be the end of the world.
What few survivors remain will have to hide from the COVID zombies that roam the country.
What few survivors remain will have to hide from the COVID zombies that roam the country.
Yep, all thanks to Trump responding to this virus in his lackadaisical way. Those images are exactly how Trump will leave this country, a mess.
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lol, keep running with that conspiracy kireek.
kireek said: »
He deferred almost all actions to the states leaders, which is why Democrats states are all getting demolished. Especially NYC
False. The buck ultimately stops with Trump. One of his greatest failures is his inability to take the responsibility that comes with leading a country.
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Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
kireek said: »
He deferred almost all actions to the states leaders, which is why Democrats states are all getting demolished. Especially NYC
False. The buck ultimately stops with Trump. One of his greatest failures is his inability to take the responsibility that comes with leading a country.
False. The Federal government does not supercede the state government except for matters expressly concerning the constitution.
The only time the fed can step in and take over this crisis in any state, is when CONGRESS, approved the governments intervention.
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It's hilarious how people accuse Trump of acting like a dictator and then blame him for things he couldn't control without becoming a dictator.
I guess the real problem is that people don't know how the government works.
I guess the real problem is that people don't know how the government works.
[+]
There are still plenty of things the federal gov't has failed to do that Trump is responsible for, especially in regards to testing. He has falsely blamed the Obama admin for leaving behind a "bad covid-19" test, which is literally impossible because the covid-19 test was invented in 2020. It was rolled out poorly and required multiple on the fly adjustments and supply of the test is STILL a problem in mid April. None of that has anything to do with Obama.
Trump has also falsely blamed the Obama admin for leaving behind "empty shelves" in terms of medical supplies. That doesn't work either, Trump has been President for 3+ years, he has increased spending dramatically in each of those years, and yet nothing on filling up those shelves? The "empty shelves" are on him.
Also, kireek continues to lie about how the "Democrat states are getting slammed" and in his world, the Republican states are doing just fine, while completely ignoring the context of population density. This has already been pointed out many times, but he keeps pretending his narrative is accurate.
All 50 states are at different points of the virus right now, NY is the closest state to the apex, but its not downhill from NY. I don't know about you guys, but as bad as the state level leadership is in Texas, I am thrilled to not be living in Florida right now.
Trump has also falsely blamed the Obama admin for leaving behind "empty shelves" in terms of medical supplies. That doesn't work either, Trump has been President for 3+ years, he has increased spending dramatically in each of those years, and yet nothing on filling up those shelves? The "empty shelves" are on him.
Also, kireek continues to lie about how the "Democrat states are getting slammed" and in his world, the Republican states are doing just fine, while completely ignoring the context of population density. This has already been pointed out many times, but he keeps pretending his narrative is accurate.
All 50 states are at different points of the virus right now, NY is the closest state to the apex, but its not downhill from NY. I don't know about you guys, but as bad as the state level leadership is in Texas, I am thrilled to not be living in Florida right now.
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
It's hilarious how people accuse Trump of acting like a dictator and then blame him for things he couldn't control without becoming a dictator.
I guess the real problem is that people don't know how the government works.
I guess the real problem is that people don't know how the government works.
Agreed, and the great thing about these forums is I can assist in educating those that do not understand.
We're not talking day to day operations where state leaders run their respective governments. This is a world-wide crisis that requires the leaders of the countries to step up and do their job. I guess we'll have to chalk this up to just another of Trump's failures.
ok lets disect this:
the statement about the tests, is actually accurate on trumps part. a respritory testing kit consists of nothing more than effectively a test tube, a q-tip, and a protien marker solution. the test kits that were in the stock pile, were NOT those multipurpose test kits- they were specifically mechanical flu strain testing kits exclusively. these kits were different because they were exclusively calibrated for testing for the flu, and could not be re-purposed, as a normal nasal swabbing kit could.
This ultimately comes back to: nobody was prepared for this for a good reason. not obamas fault, not trumps fault. you cant screech about hindsight on something like this and expect your arguments to have legitimacy.
Last i checked, our national stockpiles and purchasing are dictated by congress. NOT the president. If its not in a spending bill, produced by congress, Thats not trumps fault. Thats your senators and house representatives fault. Given that we'd never seen a pandemic of this scale during ANY of our life times - its likely that we would N E V E R have been prepared for this.
i havent run the numbers, but they are mostly democratic states that have the highest case loads. i can crunch the per capita values, but i suspect they will run evenly across the country.
florida is where all the snowbirds go; its what like 20% of floridas population are elderly Northern state snowbirds? if anything NY lucked out that a huge chunk of their old people were seasonally living down in florida when this hit.
That being said, yea florida isnt doing great.
Viciouss said: »
There are still plenty of things the federal gov't has failed to do that Trump is responsible for, especially in regards to testing. He has falsely blamed the Obama admin for leaving behind a "bad covid-19" test, which is literally impossible because the covid-19 test was invented in 2020. It was rolled out poorly and required multiple on the fly adjustments and supply of the test is STILL a problem in mid April. None of that has anything to do with Obama.
the statement about the tests, is actually accurate on trumps part. a respritory testing kit consists of nothing more than effectively a test tube, a q-tip, and a protien marker solution. the test kits that were in the stock pile, were NOT those multipurpose test kits- they were specifically mechanical flu strain testing kits exclusively. these kits were different because they were exclusively calibrated for testing for the flu, and could not be re-purposed, as a normal nasal swabbing kit could.
This ultimately comes back to: nobody was prepared for this for a good reason. not obamas fault, not trumps fault. you cant screech about hindsight on something like this and expect your arguments to have legitimacy.
Viciouss said: »
Trump has also falsely blamed the Obama admin for leaving behind "empty shelves" in terms of medical supplies. That doesn't work either, Trump has been President for 3+ years, he has increased spending dramatically in each of those years, and yet nothing on filling up those shelves? The "empty shelves" are on him.
Last i checked, our national stockpiles and purchasing are dictated by congress. NOT the president. If its not in a spending bill, produced by congress, Thats not trumps fault. Thats your senators and house representatives fault. Given that we'd never seen a pandemic of this scale during ANY of our life times - its likely that we would N E V E R have been prepared for this.
Viciouss said: »
Also, kireek continues to lie about how the "Democrat states are getting slammed" and in his world, the Republican states are doing just fine, while completely ignoring the context of population density. This has already been pointed out many times, but he keeps pretending his narrative is accurate.
i havent run the numbers, but they are mostly democratic states that have the highest case loads. i can crunch the per capita values, but i suspect they will run evenly across the country.
Viciouss said: »
All 50 states are at different points of the virus right now, NY is the closest state to the apex, but its not downhill from NY. I don't know about you guys, but as bad as the state level leadership is in Texas, I am thrilled to not be living in Florida right now.
florida is where all the snowbirds go; its what like 20% of floridas population are elderly Northern state snowbirds? if anything NY lucked out that a huge chunk of their old people were seasonally living down in florida when this hit.
That being said, yea florida isnt doing great.
[+]
Cerberus.Hideka said: »
florida is where all the snowbirds go; its what like 20% of floridas population are elderly Northern state snowbirds? if anything NY lucked out that a huge chunk of their old people were seasonally living down in florida when this hit.
EDIT: Floridas elderly population are**
sorry fingers got ahead of the brain for a second there.
[+]
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
It's hilarious how people accuse Trump of acting like a dictator and then blame him for things he couldn't control without becoming a dictator.
I guess the real problem is that people don't know how the government works.
I guess the real problem is that people don't know how the government works.
Agreed, and the great thing about these forums is I can assist in educating those that do not understand.
We're not talking day to day operations where state leaders run their respective governments. This is a world-wide crisis that requires the leaders of the countries to step up and do their job. I guess we'll have to chalk this up to just another of Trump's failures.
You are in no position to educate anyone. You speak in platitudes that have no real meaning because you cannot fathom the complexity of the situation. This being a worldwide crisis doesn’t excuse the states from all responsibility. Planning for emergencies is a part of all levels of government (and you personally).
[+]
Cerberus.Hideka said: »
ok lets disect this:
the statement about the tests, is actually accurate on trumps part. a respritory testing kit consists of nothing more than effectively a test tube, a q-tip, and a protien marker solution. the test kits that were in the stock pile, were NOT those multipurpose test kits- they were specifically mechanical flu strain testing kits exclusively. these kits were different because they were exclusively calibrated for testing for the flu, and could not be re-purposed, as a normal nasal swabbing kit could.
This ultimately comes back to: nobody was prepared for this for a good reason. not obamas fault, not trumps fault. you cant screech about hindsight on something like this and expect your arguments to have legitimacy.
Last i checked, our national stockpiles and purchasing are dictated by congress. NOT the president. If its not in a spending bill, produced by congress, Thats not trumps fault. Thats your senators and house representatives fault. Given that we'd never seen a pandemic of this scale during ANY of our life times - its likely that we would N E V E R have been prepared for this.
i havent run the numbers, but they are mostly democratic states that have the highest case loads. i can crunch the per capita values, but i suspect they will run evenly across the country.
florida is where all the snowbirds go; its what like 20% of floridas population are elderly Northern state snowbirds? if anything NY lucked out that a huge chunk of their old people were seasonally living down in florida when this hit.
That being said, yea florida isnt doing great.
Viciouss said: »
There are still plenty of things the federal gov't has failed to do that Trump is responsible for, especially in regards to testing. He has falsely blamed the Obama admin for leaving behind a "bad covid-19" test, which is literally impossible because the covid-19 test was invented in 2020. It was rolled out poorly and required multiple on the fly adjustments and supply of the test is STILL a problem in mid April. None of that has anything to do with Obama.
the statement about the tests, is actually accurate on trumps part. a respritory testing kit consists of nothing more than effectively a test tube, a q-tip, and a protien marker solution. the test kits that were in the stock pile, were NOT those multipurpose test kits- they were specifically mechanical flu strain testing kits exclusively. these kits were different because they were exclusively calibrated for testing for the flu, and could not be re-purposed, as a normal nasal swabbing kit could.
This ultimately comes back to: nobody was prepared for this for a good reason. not obamas fault, not trumps fault. you cant screech about hindsight on something like this and expect your arguments to have legitimacy.
Viciouss said: »
Trump has also falsely blamed the Obama admin for leaving behind "empty shelves" in terms of medical supplies. That doesn't work either, Trump has been President for 3+ years, he has increased spending dramatically in each of those years, and yet nothing on filling up those shelves? The "empty shelves" are on him.
Last i checked, our national stockpiles and purchasing are dictated by congress. NOT the president. If its not in a spending bill, produced by congress, Thats not trumps fault. Thats your senators and house representatives fault. Given that we'd never seen a pandemic of this scale during ANY of our life times - its likely that we would N E V E R have been prepared for this.
Viciouss said: »
Also, kireek continues to lie about how the "Democrat states are getting slammed" and in his world, the Republican states are doing just fine, while completely ignoring the context of population density. This has already been pointed out many times, but he keeps pretending his narrative is accurate.
i havent run the numbers, but they are mostly democratic states that have the highest case loads. i can crunch the per capita values, but i suspect they will run evenly across the country.
Viciouss said: »
All 50 states are at different points of the virus right now, NY is the closest state to the apex, but its not downhill from NY. I don't know about you guys, but as bad as the state level leadership is in Texas, I am thrilled to not be living in Florida right now.
florida is where all the snowbirds go; its what like 20% of floridas population are elderly Northern state snowbirds? if anything NY lucked out that a huge chunk of their old people were seasonally living down in florida when this hit.
That being said, yea florida isnt doing great.
I'm tired of editing quote chains. So I'm stopping. Yes, I'm lazy.
Alright first, no, Trump is not correct when he blames Obama for "leaving behind" a bad testing kit. You literally just said it wasn't Obama's fault, so how can Trump be correct. The testing kits the CDC had were not bad kits, period. They weren't designed to test for this virus, but that doesn't make them bad kits, which is what Trump has alleged when trying to blame Obama. He has deflected all possible criticism of the testing problem we are still facing and put it entirely on Obama. Its a lie. You are also completely ignoring the horrible rollout of the testing, which is still horrible in mid April.
Secondly, we aren't shifting the blame to Congress. Trump had a rubber stamp in his first two years, he knew about the shortages, he dramatically increased spending, and did nothing to address the empty shelves. He got the budget he wanted in the first two years, if he had wanted to restock the shelves, he could have pushed for it, and he would have gotten it. He didn't. Thats on him. So again, when he is blaming Obama, its just another attempt to deflect. And its also a lie. And its easy to see.
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