NANI!?

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NANI!?
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By Shichishito 2020-04-01 01:37:19
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By zixxer 2020-04-01 02:38:03
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Avesta would be proud. I vote vid of the year.
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By Draylo 2020-04-01 03:46:23
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Nerf RDM
#BLUPDATE
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By HyperKTM 2020-04-01 05:21:31
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Nerf lute
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By Odinz 2020-04-01 07:47:35
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Avesta and Lute got nothing on this guy
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EDIT:
And if you want to feel really old, Abysea came out almost 10 years ago. The people the hardcore OG FFXI vanilla players refer to as "Green Abyssea noobs" are now a decade old. Let that sink in..we've spent 2 decades in 1 game. /playtime at your own peril.
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By Shichishito 2020-04-01 20:12:19
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are we all going to ignore that a solo RDM is able to get around every gimmick one of the most difficult fights the game has to offer? are we really going to harp on asking for a MNK nerf (they sure do need one) while this is happening?

why does RDM always get a pass? back in the day kite killing sky gods and now this?
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By Draylo 2020-04-01 20:14:19
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This to me is less impressive than when they were soloing Ou and more specifically soloing a VD Ambuscade. That would def show something is way off or we need new content.
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By Shichishito 2020-04-01 20:22:52
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he probably didn't even need a lot of attempts cause the triggers are way to much of a pain to farm to fail WoC over and over.

i didn't know they could solo Ou as well and that speaks for itself OP RDM currently really is. however Ous gimmicks come at certain % HP, you know whats coming and when it does. WoCs gimmicks seem pretty random or maybe JPs know something we do not.
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By Shichishito 2020-04-01 21:20:24
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if y'all don't smell how much this stinks you should get tested asap!
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-04-01 21:32:53
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Shichishito said: »
are we all going to ignore that a solo RDM is able to get around every gimmick one of the most difficult fights the game has to offer? are we really going to harp on asking for a MNK nerf (they sure do need one) while this is happening?

why does RDM always get a pass? back in the day kite killing sky gods and now this?


RDM "gets a pass" because of these reasons:

1. In the entire 75 era, RDM was forced to EXP as a gimped WHM or an underperforming BLM. Never able to truly embrace both melee and mage aspects as they could and did often solo. And considering the amount of gameplay that EXP was back then, its a fair point.

2. RDM was certainly the king of The War of Attrition. As long as you could keep up shadows or use terrain, you could whittle damn near anything down in the game. This was addressed 3-fold...draw-in, stronger natural Regen/Regain on mobs, and timed pop encounters.

3. RDM had about a 6 year Dark Period where they were persona non grata in Vana'diel.

4. It is only partially through changes to the job itself and JSE gear that has put RDM in its current great position. The other half is stuff that's changed multiple jobs or gear available for many (I'm looking at you, Malignance)

5. And its never been fair to judge a job by the most extreme examples of it, good or bad.

So yeah, they get a pass for now. Maybe your issue isn't that RDM can "get around every gimmick of one of the most difficult fights the game has to offer"....maybe your issue is that "one of the most difficult fights the game has to offer" is 4 years old.
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By Shichishito 2020-04-01 23:04:00
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Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
1. In the entire 75 era, RDM was forced to EXP as a gimped WHM or an underperforming BLM. Never able to truly embrace both melee and mage aspects as they could and did often solo. And considering the amount of gameplay that EXP was back then, its a fair point.
most RDMs went /anon 24/7 to avoid tell/invite spam when they weren't even LFPing while a lot of other jobs could LFP 6+ hours and log out without a single invite. BooHoo RDM didn't get to do their favorite thing 100% of the time.
next OP job got to be WHM, BLM or BST cause they didn't get to melee in their shiny reverand mail or had to solo a lot.

Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
2. RDM was certainly the king of The War of Attrition. As long as you could keep up shadows or use terrain, you could whittle damn near anything down in the game. This was addressed 3-fold...draw-in, stronger natural Regen/Regain on mobs, and timed pop encounters.
all of those didn't adress RDM directly, everyone else had to deal with it too.
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
3. RDM had about a 6 year Dark Period where they were persona non grata in Vana'diel.
every job has seen bad days, few to none had highs like RDM did.

Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
4. It is only partially through changes to the job itself and JSE gear that has put RDM in its current great position. The other half is stuff that's changed multiple jobs or gear available for many (I'm looking at you, Malignance)
if a piece of gear makes one job tower that high over all the others deny the job that piece of equipment. BLU was never even remotely that far ahead as RDM is now and they've been left out of almost all gear upgrades for what? 3+ years?

your reasoning seems to be based on bias, not rational thought.
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By Draylo 2020-05-28 22:10:27
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RDM has gone from a support job to a top parsing DD job with buffs/debuffs side benefit.

-20m+ Self buffs
-10m+ Party buffs
-5~10m+ Debuffs including some extremely potent debuffs like Distract/Dia3.

You're only beginning to see the trickle in of solos of content that people still bring groups to.

I would like to see the case as to how this isn't considered OP?

To put the icing on the cake, they received daybreak in addition to Malignance and Corcea mors. Add all those together and see some funny results in content like Dyna D, Omen, etc.

I compared it to BLU in the previous thread because historically they were on par, with BLU overtaking RDM in damage after Abyssea. Now there is almost no contest! We can compare the two on paper and see the drastic difference in performance.

I find it hilarious people say in this thread that it gets a pass because you can't compare jobs at their maximum potential, how stupid is that?
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By Leviathan.Angenard 2020-05-28 22:33:39
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By missdivine 2020-05-28 23:08:16
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Draylo said: »
RDM has gone from a support job to a top parsing DD job with buffs/debuffs side benefit.

-20m+ Self buffs
-10m+ Party buffs
-5~10m+ Debuffs including some extremely potent debuffs like Distract/Dia3.

You're only beginning to see the trickle in of solos of content that people still bring groups to.

I would like to see the case as to how this isn't considered OP?

To put the icing on the cake, they received daybreak in addition to Malignance and Corcea mors. Add all those together and see some funny results in content like Dyna D, Omen, etc.

I compared it to BLU in the previous thread because historically they were on par, with BLU overtaking RDM in damage after Abyssea. Now there is almost no contest! We can compare the two on paper and see the drastic difference in performance.

I find it hilarious people say in this thread that it gets a pass because you can't compare jobs at their maximum potential, how stupid is that?
The game just needs new challenging content, now everyone just duo or solo anything very easy. The huge amount of items and job updates are not balanced for any current endgame.

Items like Orpheus's Sash Rostams
Stikini Ring +1
Crocea Mors

Hauksbok Arrow
Are way too OP.
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 Asura.Elizabet
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By Asura.Elizabet 2020-05-28 23:22:46
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missdivine said: »
now everyone just duo or solo anything very easy

Does it count as trio if each person 6-box a full party in an 18 person alliance? At this point what's even "challenging content" when we can multibox/react our way to success?
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By missdivine 2020-05-28 23:28:02
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Asura.Elizabet said: »
missdivine said: »
now everyone just duo or solo anything very easy

Does it count as trio if each person 6-box a full party in an 18 person alliance? At this point what's even "challenging content" when we can multibox/react our way to success?
Well, I mentioned solo or duo, not multiboxing which is another story. Most players that have 4+ accounts use all that for rmt purposes, my opinion.
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By ashcrow 2020-05-29 03:16:53
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missdivine said: »
Asura.Elizabet said: »
missdivine said: »
now everyone just duo or solo anything very easy

Does it count as trio if each person 6-box a full party in an 18 person alliance? At this point what's even "challenging content" when we can multibox/react our way to success?
Well, I mentioned solo or duo, not multiboxing which is another story. Most players that have 4+ accounts use all that for rmt purposes, my opinion.

i never liked that or Lua's i always played with manual macros. multiboxing is a yikes too
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By Asura.Sirris 2020-05-29 10:46:14
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Red mage is fine honestly. They are meant to be a jack-of-all-trades job that has a bit of everything. Since they don't challenge the heavy DDs in terms of melee damage and zerg'ing, or white mage or even scholar in heals, or bard/geomancer in pure support, or BLM for nuking, RDM is balanced enough. And I believe if you surveyed the greater player community most people would agree. The resurgence of red mage seems to have been received positively.

I think the bigger issue is that there is a huge influx of absolute garbage red mages on that bandwagon. They grab a Crocea Mors and think they are a pure DD, can't do anything other than enspell and Sanguine Blade. It's embarrassing.
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-05-29 11:46:29
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Asura.Sirris said: »
Red mage is fine honestly. They are meant to be a jack-of-all-trades job that has a bit of everything. Since they don't challenge the heavy DDs in terms of melee damage and zerg'ing, or white mage or even scholar in heals, or bard/geomancer in pure support, or BLM for nuking, RDM is balanced enough. And I believe if you surveyed the greater player community most people would agree. The resurgence of red mage seems to have been received positively.

Agreed. RDM is in a really good place right now without stepping out of it's lane at all. Outside of abusing Weather Effects in dynamis, no RDM will ever step on a DD's toes and the things it does well are the things its always done well. Including soloing NMs that normally need a group to take down; this has literally always been RDM's deal.

Asura.Sirris said: »
I think the bigger issue is that there is a huge influx of absolute garbage red mages on that bandwagon. They grab a Crocea Mors and think they are a pure DD, can't do anything other than enspell and Sanguine Blade. It's embarrassing.

I agree here as well but unfortunately this can't be acknowledged as an actual issue I'm afraid; bandwagoning is just the nature of the beast. Popular jobs will always attract players that wanna try it "Because it looks cool" and never actually learn the job. It's disrespectful for the job and it's initiates but its impossible to fight against. All you can do is screen players before inviting them. Whenever I make groups I grill the players: "Show me your Enfeeb set" "Show me your idle", "let me see the appropriate subjob that we need right now". Stuff like that. A bit of a pain but it's better than losing the run finding out all too late that your RDM, or any pivotal role for that matter, sucks bawls imo
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By Shichishito 2020-05-29 12:04:51
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Valefor.Yandaime said: »
Including soloing NMs that normally need a group to take down; this has literally always been RDM's deal.
if all you guys considered RDM balanced back in the day when it was able to solo genbu then i'm not surprised why barely anyone is concerned now.

SMN always had a super strong 2/1 hour but now (even after nerf for new content) everyone and their mom is still crying for SMN nerf. double standards much?
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2020-05-29 12:10:00
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Valefor.Yandaime said: »
Whenever I make groups I grill the players: "Show me your Enfeeb set" "Show me your idle",

Show me your ***...

Also, rdm is very op and lol for thinking its in a ok spot.. its *** broken as *** right now... And I enjoy abusing it...
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-05-29 14:15:06
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Shichishito said: »
if all you guys considered RDM balanced back in the day when it was able to solo genbu then i'm not surprised why barely anyone is concerned now.

Well its because there's nothing really all that special about how HOW RDM solo's. It uses it's key trait of Fast Cast to create a very strong defensive front with Utsusemi. It's just a good combo that puts SE in an awkward corner if they ever wanted to try to fix it. They'd have to either nerf Utsu and make it Blink (Rioting in the streets from NINs) or nerf RDM's Fast Cast or Fast Cast cap in general (Rioting in the streets from basically everyone that casts anything). So this basically puts any target that doesn't swing a thousand times or spams AoEs right on RDM's plate. Anything else would require different means of killing that aren't remotely as reliable. Soloing Genbu wasn't a concern because it wasn't a very important or difficult NM back at 75 and also that was one of the only NMs anyone cared about that RDM had good odds of fighting, and even then it was still kited. So yeah, you got it... 20 minutes later.. lol Soloing is cool but not when it takes forever.

Shichishito said: »
SMN always had a super strong 2/1 hour but now (even after nerf for new content) everyone and their mom is still crying for SMN nerf. double standards much?

This is due to the absolute cheese that more or less stone-walls anyone wanting to make an Aeonic or do VD Ambuscade and it's not SMNs fault, its the lazy playerbase. SMN's SPs can allow it to pump out damage equal to a DD's SP but with near-zero risk of death or TP spam from the target NM or crazy Enmity issues. You literally grab a Tank, a GEO and/or COR and 3 SMNs, pop the NM or enter the Ambu, pop SPs and that's nearly a default win. That's pretty busted or at the very least much too easy to exploit. The people crying for SMN nerfs are the ones that are either too lazy to make actual groups OR are completely fed up with dealing with random players. Either way, I can't really blame them :(

Bismarck.Nickeny said: »
Also, rdm is very op and lol for thinking its in a ok spot.. its *** broken as *** right now... And I enjoy abusing it...

I mean I'm a RDM, was my first job in fact but there's a hard argument to call it OP when there are few things that really cement it into the group setups. Most fights will not need Distract and Frazzle to hit Acc checks and Slow/Para are BEAUTIFUL but largely don't impact fight performance unless using a NIN tank. It's lovely but will your RUN/PLD really care if the mob is Slow/Para'd? They most definitely should but I've literally never heard a tank yell out "I think slow wore off". RDM makes fights easier but most often the fights are already easy to begin with so there's no concrete demand for it unless in cases where you need Silence or Blind or Dispel. And that's classically situational.

It can't heal as well as a WHM and I don't think as well as a SCH for that matter.

It can Nuke fairly well but not as well as a BLM. Can actually Magic Burst impressively well but not as well as BLM and even then Magic Burst strategies probably wont see major circulation again until SE removes the Magic Burst Damage limitations.

It barely beats out Sword-COR for DPS especially when it's actually doing its job and casting frequently so unless you are employing a Zero-TP strategy there's little to be gained here. You can maximize for DPS but then your group will suffer when you neglect your duties.

RDM has 15-20min Enhancing spells, Distract/Frazzle and Dia III. This allows it to Lower pDIF, haste and enhance Acc for the party. Buuuuut GEO (usually) deals with pDIF much better and BRD handles Haste/Acc with ease so there's not much demand here. If you're doing alliance play, no problem; RDM gets Hastes and BRD uses more offensive songs, done deal. But when dealing with limited party sizing such as Ambuscade or HTBF? Squeezing the RDM in might not be ideal. The most common 6-man setup I'd use for generic fights with the way the game is right now is Tank, WHM, GEO, BRD, COR, DD. Or if Enfeebs are mandatory, Tank, WHM, GEO, RDM, COR, DD.

I'm just not seeing anything RDM has to make it broken. It's flexible to be sure but so is BLU, DNC, BRD, SCH and PUP. It just doesn't bring anything to the table that you need all the time. Now if SE made a way for Temper to be cast onto others? Game over, RDM will be the most ***'d out *** this game has ever seen. But until then? It's good but I wont think twice about passing it when I don't need it lol. There's not much really to abuse here.
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By Shichishito 2020-05-29 16:17:27
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Valefor.Yandaime said: »
It uses it's key trait of Fast Cast to create a very strong defensive front with Utsusemi. It's just a good combo that puts SE in an awkward corner if they ever wanted to try to fix it. They'd have to either nerf Utsu and make it Blink (Rioting in the streets from NINs) or nerf RDM's Fast Cast or Fast Cast cap in general (Rioting in the streets from basically everyone that casts anything).
weird, remember when SE perceived utsusemi in combination with seigan OP? they managed to nerf it without screwing everyone else over.

also nice essay and all but its not a single perk that makes RDM so OP but the complete package. since the macc buff they can land debuffs very reliably and due to their potent debuffs they can fit in almost all setups, even pet parties. no job besides maybe GEO could say that of themselfs and they got several nerfs in the past and never were good at soloing.

if you'd want to pin point a thing that should be toned down its probably somewhere at the enspell dmg with SU5 sword and zero tp feed or maybe the tripple attack self buff.
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By Shiva.Xelltrix 2020-05-29 16:55:05
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When the average Joe can do the stuff Lute does, then I'll think RDM is OP. Until then, whine moar.
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By Draylo 2020-05-29 16:56:46
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Cant compete with "heavy dd"? Obviously has not seen what rdm can do lol.
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By Draylo 2020-05-29 17:05:08
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Shiva.Xelltrix said: »
When the average Joe can do the stuff Lute does, then I'll think RDM is OP. Until then, whine moar.

This is a dumb argument as always
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By Shichishito 2020-05-29 17:06:33
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Shiva.Xelltrix said: »
When the average Joe can do the stuff Lute does, then I'll think RDM is OP. Until then, whine moar.
you'll only see more ppl soloing AV when its easier to farm the triggers or when the win is almost guaranteed. that doesn't mean others can't beat AV on RDM, it simply means the triggers are to much of a pain in the *** to farm for the fast majority to potentialy waste it.

i mean maybe there is a bot for that, too. maybe all the trigger NMs pop left and right once you got all the vorseals for it, i don't know.
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By Shiva.Xelltrix 2020-05-29 17:08:11
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Draylo said: »
Shiva.Xelltrix said: »
When the average Joe can do the stuff Lute does, then I'll think RDM is OP. Until then, whine moar.

This is a dumb argument as always


It really isn't, if it's hard to reproduce, doesn't negatively impact someone, doesn't exploit the system, and doesn't make the other jobs obsolete, what is the issue?
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By Draylo 2020-05-29 18:26:40
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It isn't solely based on the fact they can do x solo. It is the overall picture when you analyze a jobs capability.
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