The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*

in a general sense id say malig, perfect samnuha are still top if you don't need the defensive aspects or the acc that malig provides

Anyone able to share some math to compare Gleti's Breeches? Versus Malignance, with Gleti's having higher PDL and a good spread of other stats (high STR, a ton of Atk, Crit rate +7%, Regain+3, PDL+8) I know they are relatively close. IIRC, Gleti's may win especially when attack capped and able to take advantage of the higher PDL (excluding Terp w/ AM3, where Malignance STP probably wins out).

Meghanada +2 also still hold up pretty well offensively (and PDT-6% means they aren't quite as much of a defensive liability as total glass cannon Samnuha Tights). Meg+2 are a better choice than Horos+3: very similar STR/Acc, Atk-19, and the big difference of TA+5% instead of Malignance's DA+5% (with that DA+5% only if you have Saber Dance up).

Personally, these days I usually don't feel that comfortable losing the defense of one of Gleti/Malignance in my TP set. When the defense matters, it can be life saving. And where it doesn't matter, it's not likely you're that much faster anyway so who really cares if you're 3% more DPS on trash content (heck, you might even get better offensive performance out of Gleti or Malignance on trash since you're more likely to be able to take advantage of PDL+ in that scenario)

So Striking Flourish with Empyrean +3 body is a 70% crit rate and a DA every 30 seconds for a paltry 2 FMs. Anyone thought about how that might interact with Pyrrhic Kleos. Roughly . . .

Positives:
* fTP replicates
* Forced DA looks good because it adds another hit to PK (6 swings minimum)
* 2 of the hits have a 70% crit rate now
* 100% CHR boost, but outside WSC
* Can use it every 30 seconds

Negatives:
* AM3 has a 1.91 swings/round average, so the main hand forced DA is barely better.
* PK's skillchain properties typically don't make it a big closer, so you'd be using this in a very specific band of monster HPs where you're two-step killing but not three-stepping.

Climactic is great but I find myself saving it because the recast is so long and it does so much damage. I could see maybe mixing in Striking sometimes.

Did striking actually force a crit chance to non-crit ws? Never knew

Same question here. I would stay Striking is probably better than Climactic for PK even if it doesn't cause crits, for all the reasons one uses PK over Rudra's in the first place, but if it does cause crits that'd be a big deal.

Edit: Never mind. It would seem I was mistaken with this post.

That's not true. It does force a critical 70% of the time on first and added hit. It's same mechanic as Shining One, but only for those 2 first hits.

It was never used, because +1 had poor stats and chance for crit alone wasn't enough. +3 is up to debate, especially when mixed with some Gleti's to push crit rate to 100%.

Lets break this down assuming some things.
First of all I would assume using Gleti's head, hands and legs for at least 98% crit rate. I guess on bosses, you could use Feather Step and reduce number's of Gleti's needed and also easily cap at 100%. Yetshila+1 can also be used to cap at 100% and to add 6% crit damage which should be close to Crepuscular Pebble in attack cap and ofc much better for uncapped. You could also probably just use crit rate cape, but Glet's are bis for capped attack anyway (and its when PK is competitive) and DA on cape would still help a lot on DA on sub hand.

I would also assume ambuscade cape and Mastered DNC ofc. That gives 27% crit damage.

Without PDL at capped attack First two hits would be boosted by around ~64%. with some PDL it would be closer to ~57% and in bis capped attack PK set it would be closer to ~52%.

Lets assume best scenario for Striking Flourish with this body, which is no multihit on sub hand, so only 6hits on PK. Around ~57% on first 2 hit would be ~19% boost to whole PK damage.

Empy body alone has very good att,acc,STR and DEX (especially DEX compered to Gleti's), but lacks anything else. We would also need to remember about 1sec JA delay, which is hard to measure in term of lost DPS. Potentially also more JA delay to get enough FMs to support using Striking Flourish and Climactic Flourish(I assume you would still use Climactic).

Sounds like some very scenario specific use case.
It's definitely an interesting option and worth to theory craft around it.

Dnc cant use this ammo

iirc Striking with Empy body adds X% crit rate to its two hits (even on non-crit WSs) but your base is whatever you had before that (unlike Shining One), so you would have exactly a 70% crit rate on a non-crit WS but ~100% crit rate on Evisceration.

idk whether both the main hit and the DA get the CHR boost because there was no CHR boost when I originally tested it. Either way, mods outside of fTP are kind of useless.

Dancer can't use Yetshila, but we do have Charis feather which is close enough.

I screwed around with an old spreadsheet and the basic story I'm getting is that using striking (or building) has a net-negative impact on DPS due to the additional ~80 fixed delay incurred by using the JA. I forgot how frustrating the interplay between cool gameplay mechanics and WS frequency is.

I have to go do work, but another thing I quickly looked at was Rudra's spam with Twash / Centovent. Without skillchains, it doesn't look *that* different from PK spam with Terpsi/Twash and relies on CF usage to get there, which Terpsi can also do. It also dives off a cliff when Acc starts becoming an issue. I'm kind of "meh" about it overall.

Mythic/Gleti (it's even better with Crepuscular, but you lose 70 attack, which complicates things even more) with Pyrrhic is way ahead of Twash/Cento Rudra which I probably wrote around the time we got Gleti's. The problem is it almost requires full PDL build (at least 48%PDL) with +319 attack in that set, while Rudra requires +22%PDL with +355 attack in set. If you drop PDL in Phyrric to 22%, DPS drops to almost the same as Rudra. Rudra also has better Skillchain bonus, self skillchaining and/or doing double darkness, reacts better to Sabre Dance, has way higher survivability (attack capped PK has PDT at least, but uncapped attack is just glass cannon and since you spam that WS, it's a HUGE problem. Meva is low in all PK sets too). It's possible to wear more defensive gear, but that's further dps drop, so in general PK is the best with huge attack overflow.

EDIT: Well I updated bis Rudra (non Climactic for now) and PK sets in guide and uncapped PK set isn't that bad from defensive perspective anymore I guess.

ItemSet 358175

Hello,

I was kind of interested in going hardcore on Dancer for a lot of low man/solo play, likely without buffs, but I have a few reservations.

One thing that is a bit discouraging to me is the inability to make Light Skillchains without an awful weaponskill and an Aeonic. For those who player Dancers and challenges themselves in content, does this hinder your ability to do content?

How has content been with you and Dancer? Things like Sortie, Odyssey Bosses, Seg Runs, Omen Bosses and Dynamis?

When fighting the slug in Map A, what weaponskill do you use to prevent distortion?

What do you feel the weakness of Dancer is?

How effective is the Aeonic? How effective is the Mythic? How does Tauret compare to the two? (I'm not that interested in Twashtar)

Is Centovente worth grinding for still?

Thank you,

If Light SC is required, I use other jobs.


Jig is great for Sortie. Box step is great for everything.

Odyssey:
Segments -> kinda meh, no real slashing option beside Onion Sword III makes it really hard. Karambit for blunt is barely ok.
Kalunga -> nope
Xevioso -> One of the best DD for this fight
Arebati -> Doable as debuffer (Box adn Feather) and to run in and Climactic Rudra
Ngai -> Doable as debuffer and support DD with Karambit
Mboze -> nope
Ongo -> nope

Omen bosses: Generally can solo probably all of them, but Ou can probably be a problem, since you mostly want to kill it with light SC at the end, BUT using SP2 and Rudra spam could be enough.

Sortie:
A boss -> You will need to use Shark bite in group content. Otherwise Evisceration or Pyrrhic Kleos spam with Tauret or Mythic.
B, C, D -> There is no real DNC specific gimmick here and Box step is ofc great as always.
E,F,G -> In theory DNC could be solid here with debuffs and SCing with SCH. Kinda do the same work as RNG in setup with BLM and SCH. Still even climactic Rudra with Chaos, Box, Dia II, entrust fury and possibly Shell Crusher wouldn't probably hit as hard as Trueflight on E and G and Climactic also has a cooldown. I dont think anyone will give you a chance to do it tho, unless you would be the leader of pug or go with friends.

Dynamis -> Very fine with both melee and AoE strategy. Box step on NMs and otherwise just WS spam.


No good light SC. Only good slashing option hidden behind Bonanza. Lots of JA delay. Most of playerbase not understanding value of DNC's debuffs or abilities. Haste samba doing almost nothing for DNC himself (unless when single wielding or for staff when you want shell crusher).


Aeonic is great for 4 step Umbra.

Mythic is great offensively for spamming Pyrrhic in situation where you are massively overcap on attack and can use full power of PDL in bis cap attack Pyrrhic set. It's also great defensively when you need lots of TP to both do damage and use waltzes.

Tauret is offensively similar to Mythic. Requires similar scenario, but it's just weaker. Great for situation where you need crits (Arebati or Xevioso proc for example).

Twashtar is by far the best DNC weapon and saying "going hardcore on Dancer" and "not that interested in Twashtar" in the same post is blasphemy.


Twashtar/centovente is DNC's default and I can't imagine career DNC without those.

I'm sorry but what XD

Box step and Haste Samba for WAR alone makes DNC way better than SAM as 2nd DD. Fan Dance and way higher meva in TP set are another reasons. SAM will also often wont be able to use Overwhelm bonus on Xevioso.

DNC+WAR is jusy way better offensively and defensively than WAR+whatever or any other combination of 2xDD for Xevioso. Not even close.

I'm not talking about fencer here (which is also true, but not the point here). You have no sub job in Gaol, impulse drive WAR sits at 68.75% haste without hasso.

I know what you mean but important to point out it's also single-wielding COR+BRD and Hasso-less Shining One WAR when it comes to the benefits of Haste Samba for that fight, and let's not forget about Feather Step. WAR+DNC is indeed the dream team for Xevioso.

As Simon mentioned JA delay is the biggest hinderance to DPS, felt greatly when it comes to content with multiple trash mobs that die quickly. Finishing Move upkeep is a learned thing and often in content like Dynamis it can be more productive not to step until NM's, in the time it takes to Presto>>Box>>Climactic some spoony bard has savage blarded his way through your target. Playing DNC efficiently in "hectic" group content is knowing when to sacrifice your JA's for the sake of frequency.

Pretty much all covered in replies above. I would only add personal experience in the fun I get from playing DNC. Offensively the job holds its own in any content where piercing isn't out of the question while bringing unique debuffs and Haste Samba(when relevant), a real boon to any party composition low man or otherwise. It has access to a ton of great gear and of course is extremely versatile and can do wacky stuff like tank and hold wave 3 NM's via /run and enmity focused Waltz 4+5 spam. Building defensive and tanking sets is where I get a lot of enjoyment from the job.

I would also echo that if you are serious about starting to build DNC then make a Twashtar and Centovente, if you still like it then go ahead and make Terpsichore and if you then find yourself fanatical you can do silly things like RP yourself a Setan Kober B and Acrontica to explore its tanking capabilities.

I don't get to play DNC as much as I would like because other jobs reasons or because someone always whips out their Naegling or whatever and says mines bigger than urs but in my opinion it is by far the most fun and rewarding job to play at its limits.

Could a R0Aenas/Gleti's(or Acrontica) be better than R15Twashtar/Gleti's(or Acrontica) if soloing and using Rudra > Rudra ?

One of DNC's strengths is sky-high accuracy, and there isn't much to do with that these days other than offhand Centovente.

If you time your WSs very close to 1000TP, then it might be, but it would be close. Twashtar starts winning around 1400TP(before TP bonus). This is assuming Malignance with Relic or Empy +3 feet and uncapped attack.

I've tried my best to get Aeneas to compete with Twashtar (I have both at R15), and Twash just always wins for me in practice. Even if you can squeeze out better WS average with Aeneas, Empy AM (even AM1) on Twash ends up closing that gap and then some.

The situations where I find Aeneas comes into play are rather niche. Things like multistep Umbra SCs, or Aeolian Edge cleaving. If you only have Aeneas (and Tauret, which is definitely still worth getting regardless of what other options you have) available as a mainhand option, Aeneas is still a good weapon - it's just not as good as Twashtar.

Another plus that i didn't appreciate till sortie is that waltz don't aggro magic for healing. Your healer trusts don't aggro elementals or flans either, so there is a lot fewer CFs if you multibox or solo.

Personally I'd rather have terpsichore for aeolian edge cleaving than aeneas. Twashtar is dancer's primary goal for their mainhand dagger, and teprsichore is the secondary choice. Granted terpsichore is more involved to build, but it's also far more useful whenever you play more of a support role and shoulder a lot of healing with waltzes, and as simon has said already, when your attack is extremely high pyrric spam is incredible. Aeneas is the third choice, but honestly tauret is on the same tier nowadays. It's easier to just build that and skip the aeonic at this point.

That's fair, if you have both options. But like you said, Mythic is quite the commitment, especially for a secondary choice. I would imagine it's more likely that your average endgame player might wind up choosing a dagger if they do Aeonics and run out of other stuff to pick, versus going down the very intentional grindy path of building Terpsichore (this is me too, I'm a Twash/Aeneas/Tauret DNC so I do still get some AE use out of Aeneas as the best MH choice of my options).

Pretty straightforward these days though and I think we're basically saying the same thing:

1) Make a Twashtar if you really care about DNC (and/or THF)

2) Terpsichore at this point is more of a luxury item or for hardcore DNC, but certainly has its uses.

3) Aeneas isn't really a priority, but for those who happen to have one already (or can get Aeonics more easily than making an Empy or Mythic) and don't have Twash/Terp, it's a very solid option. I would agree that it's far from necessary due to Tauret existing and putting out relatively comparable damage... however, I *do* often get better DPS out of Aeneas than Tauret (even if I can't manage to get Aeneas to beat Twash) so it's not a bad choice for those without Empy/Mythic.

4) Tauret is excellent for non-RMEA and still has a place even for RMEA DNC (or THF) when you want to take advantage of crits or Evisceration. Useful for a lot of other jobs too: offhand for a COR, mainhand piercing option for lots of jobs that aren't primarily dagger users, etc.