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Flash Enmity or Recast Delay?
By Felgarr 2019-07-18 09:23:03
Hi folks,
What's the consensus on midmagic Flash sets for PLD/BLU? Historically, I'd go with a full fast cast in my midmagic Flash set, to be able to recast flash as quickly as possible. Since Dynamis Divergence was released, some folks have insisted that I need to cast Flash in full Enmity+ gear, which is a little difficult to cap Haste in (~21% Haste, with Enmity+138 without Unity Ranking boosts). I do, however, use this same enmity set when casting /BLU spells as PLD, but depending on the spell, and without being buffed appropriately, I find my recast timers are a little high. So, I decided to take some measures for Flash specifically and paste them below. Yes, gear haste over 26%, shown below is a waste. That, along with the FC numbers you see below is just what I happen to have on me at the time, in order to maintain a ~450 HP swing between idle and precast set for Flash. Also, yes, it is totally silly to expect magic recast to be affected by Madrigal songs, but I included it for lulz.
I did this because some folks seem to conflate gear haste and magic Haste, incorrectly. Some folks don't want to cast Haste on a tank, insisting it's not necessary when Mercato+HonorMarch+BRD Empy Hands +1 are equipped (This is true, for DDs...but that wasn't being tested here). This is all documented on BGWiki too, but I thought I'd share recast times for folks. When switching between Fast Cast -> Enmity -> Idle sets, I try to maintain an HP swing of ~450, but this is a conversation between you and your WHM (or a curebot setting):
Baseline:Code Naked 44s
Naked with Refueling 39s
Naked Haste1 37s
FastCast+56 (Haste+30%) 22s
Buffs and corresponding Flash recast timeCode
FastCast+71 (No Haste1, haste+30%) 20sec
No Haste1: Haste+25% 20sec
No Haste1: Haste+30% 20sec
Refueling only: 19sec
Haste1: (Gear Haste+25) 17sec
Haste1: (Gear Haste+30) 16sec
With HMarch 15sec
With HMarch/Sword Madrigal/Haste+25 15sec
With HMarch/Sword Madrigal/Haste+30 13sec
With HMarch/Haste1/Sword Madrigal 11sec
With MercHMarch/Blade Mad/Haste+25 13sec
With MercHMarch/Blade Mad/Haste+30 13sec
With HMarch/Haste1/Haste+25% 11sec
With HMarch/Haste1/Haste+30% 11sec
With MercatHM+Blade+Haste1 9 sec
With MercatHM+Blade+Haste2 9 sec
Corner Case, measuring Haste2 onlyCode FastCast+71, Haste2 Only 12sec
The takeaway for me, is that inconsistent Flash recast timers was negatively impacting my ability to hold hate in various situations. I think more frequent Flashes are preferable than Enmity-potent Flashes sometimes. I think you'll shed Flash Enmity+140 quickly if you have ~20 seconds to recast it. Also, I think you should always cast Haste on your PLD, especially if he/she doesn't have Refueling set, which is understandable, given that it probably shouldn't be a self-buff if it can be helped. There are probably other hate spells/job traits that are beneficial. Thoughts, comments, questions, and constructive feedback is welcome.
TLDR: Flash recast timer is capped with Honor March/Victory March, assuming Mercasto+BRD Empy Hands+1, without the need for haste 1. Yes, this has been known for a long time, but I wanted to see the effects of individual buffs for myself and to share that.
[+]
By FaeQueenCory 2019-07-18 19:44:24
(Though this is why I always haste my PLDs since PLDs never get DD buffs usually. Especially when I'm on RDM.)
Asura.Aerox
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 130
By Asura.Aerox 2019-07-19 06:46:37
Sounds like it's time to make a Brd alt Felgarr!
Honestly though when I tank it's the turnaround on flash timer and blu spells that makes or break whether I can hold hate. If they don't want to give your tank party a brd then tell the DD to dps in their DT sets.
[+]
By Felgarr 2019-07-19 06:59:19
Sounds like it's time to make a Brd alt Felgarr!
Honestly though when I tank it's the turnaround on flash timer and blu spells that makes or break whether I can hold hate. If they don't want to give your tank party a brd then tell the DD to dps in their DT sets.
You're right. PLD only has Flash and blue mage spells (PLD's Foil aka Reprisal has a crumby 3 min recast), so what you describe is our bread and butter. Yet, some DDs are used to playing a certain way (full throttle) and won't compromise DPS even if at the expense of party safety. In fact, I was talking about this to someone yesterday and they mention bard's Adventurer's Dirge (Enmity minus) song for party dynamics to help mitigate out of control enmity.
But yeah, I think you nailed it, and very succinctly too.
Asura.Aerox
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 130
By Asura.Aerox 2019-07-19 07:03:44
Thing is when your group focus is on killing quickly and you have AG masa sams and AG calabolg drks who can play their job well (and they have capped haste, cor rolls, frailty etc) then staying top of the hate list isnt as simple as 1 big enmity dump every 20secs.
So you need to either accept that the pld isnt the tank just a backup if things go south, hold back on the dps or put pld in the dd pt like some groups do with Rune.
Phoenix.Baelwulf
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13
By Phoenix.Baelwulf 2019-07-19 07:19:36
Yeah my experience as RUN in Dynamis is that you're not so much a tank as you are a sheepdog. Keep the monsters corralled and off the mages. If your DDs are smart, capable and buffed they should be able to kill the monsters before they can do anything threatening.
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1418
By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2019-07-19 10:07:17
Yet, some DDs are used to playing a certain way (full throttle) and won't compromise DPS even if at the expense of party safety.
This is every DD ever. Whether they are good at it or not.
There is something about going on a pure dd job and giving them buffs that makes their brain fall out of their underwear.
If you really want to mess up an event run, make sure to tell them you are running a parse beforehand.
And its a fight to get them to NOT complain about Adventurer's Dirge vs another dd song.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 122
By Asura.Taberif 2019-07-19 11:51:42
make a toggle that allows you to midcast flash.enmity for early in fights and flash.recast later in fights or if you need recast up sooner for another reason
[+]
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9851
By Asura.Saevel 2019-07-19 13:39:08
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »Yet, some DDs are used to playing a certain way (full throttle) and won't compromise DPS even if at the expense of party safety.
This is every DD ever. Whether they are good at it or not.
There is something about going on a pure dd job and giving them buffs that makes their brain fall out of their underwear.
If you really want to mess up an event run, make sure to tell them you are running a parse beforehand.
And its a fight to get them to NOT complain about Adventurer's Dirge vs another dd song.
Fck that, I love dirge. That song lets you open up even more and not pull hate for awhile. One of the best defensive songs ever.
[+]
Hi folks,
What's the consensus on midmagic Flash sets for PLD/BLU? Historically, I'd go with a full fast cast in my midmagic Flash set, to be able to recast flash as quickly as possible. Since Dynamis Divergence was released, some folks have insisted that I need to cast Flash in full Enmity+ gear, which is a little difficult to cap Haste in (~21% Haste, with Enmity+138 without Unity Ranking boosts). I do, however, use this same enmity set when casting /BLU spells as PLD, but depending on the spell, and without being buffed appropriately, I find my recast timers are a little high. So, I decided to take some measures for Flash specifically and paste them below. Yes, gear haste over 26%, shown below is a waste. That, along with the FC numbers you see below is just what I happen to have on me at the time, in order to maintain a ~450 HP swing between idle and precast set for Flash. Also, yes, it is totally silly to expect magic recast to be affected by Madrigal songs, but I included it for lulz.
I did this because some folks seem to conflate gear haste and magic Haste, incorrectly. Some folks don't want to cast Haste on a tank, insisting it's not necessary when Mercato+HonorMarch+BRD Empy Hands +1 are equipped (This is true, for DDs...but that wasn't being tested here). This is all documented on BGWiki too, but I thought I'd share recast times for folks. When switching between Fast Cast -> Enmity -> Idle sets, I try to maintain an HP swing of ~450, but this is a conversation between you and your WHM (or a curebot setting):
Baseline:Code Naked 44s
Naked with Refueling 39s
Naked Haste1 37s
FastCast+56 (Haste+30%) 22s
Buffs and corresponding Flash recast timeCode
FastCast+71 (No Haste1, haste+30%) 20sec
No Haste1: Haste+25% 20sec
No Haste1: Haste+30% 20sec
Refueling only: 19sec
Haste1: (Gear Haste+25) 17sec
Haste1: (Gear Haste+30) 16sec
With HMarch 15sec
With HMarch/Sword Madrigal/Haste+25 15sec
With HMarch/Sword Madrigal/Haste+30 13sec
With HMarch/Haste1/Sword Madrigal 11sec
With MercHMarch/Blade Mad/Haste+25 13sec
With MercHMarch/Blade Mad/Haste+30 13sec
With HMarch/Haste1/Haste+25% 11sec
With HMarch/Haste1/Haste+30% 11sec
With MercatHM+Blade+Haste1 9 sec
With MercatHM+Blade+Haste2 9 sec
Corner Case, measuring Haste2 onlyCode FastCast+71, Haste2 Only 12sec
The takeaway for me, is that inconsistent Flash recast timers was negatively impacting my ability to hold hate in various situations. I think more frequent Flashes are preferable than Enmity-potent Flashes sometimes. I think you'll shed Flash Enmity+140 quickly if you have ~20 seconds to recast it. Also, I think you should always cast Haste on your PLD, especially if he/she doesn't have Refueling set, which is understandable, given that it probably shouldn't be a self-buff if it can be helped. There are probably other hate spells/job traits that are beneficial. Thoughts, comments, questions, and constructive feedback is welcome.
TLDR: Flash recast timer is capped with Honor March/Victory March, assuming Mercasto+BRD Empy Hands+1, without the need for haste 1. Yes, this has been known for a long time, but I wanted to see the effects of individual buffs for myself and to share that.
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