Random Politics & Religion #38: The 38th One

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Random Politics & Religion #38: The 38th One
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By fonewear 2019-10-07 18:07:50
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By fonewear 2019-10-07 18:13:26
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This took me 8 hours in Paint to make:

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By fonewear 2019-10-07 18:39:06
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Next up Trump is "literally" Hitler

https://www.salon.com/2019/06/21/psychiatrist-john-gartner-two-years-ago-i-compared-trump-to-hitler-people-didnt-believe-me/
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By fonewear 2019-10-07 18:40:36
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From the article:

Two years ago I was comparing Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler. People didn't believe me. They thought I was being hyperbolic, exaggerating. They couldn't believe that Trump would build concentration camps. Well, he is doing it now. They're not death camps, but the definition of a concentration camp is where you are concentrating one element of the population that you consider to be undesirable and therefore need to be segregated and imprisoned. In this case it is undocumented immigrants, primarily from Latin America, who are being put in these concentration camps. The original plan was for Donald Trump to put hundreds of thousands of people in these camps. Trump's administration is still pursuing that policy.

Part of Trump's plan is that we will soon, in the United States, going to start having experiences where you are eating dinner in a restaurant, and then Trump's ICE enforcers will come into the restaurant and pull someone out of the kitchen and most people will just continue eating like nothing happened that is wrong or aberrant. It will be, "Oh yeah, it's the ICE police, they're just dragging people off and putting them in buses and driving them to camps." America under Trump is not far from that situation. It is what Donald Trump wants to do.

If Donald Trump wins re-election in 2020, which is very possible, you are going to see people being dragged off the street and put in camps.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2019-10-07 19:58:05
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OK, let's summarize.

If there was a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company, Barr could ask any government on the planet to aid in the investigation.

Even if there was a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company, Trump's "nice country you have there it would be a shame if Russia happened to it" act would still be an impeachable offense.

But there isn't a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company.

This does not make in any way Trump's "nice country you have there it would be a shame if Russia happened to it" act any less impeachable.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-10-07 20:51:25
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Trump saying mean things on Twitter was an impeachable offense for you guys. You dropped the bar so low that nobody cares what goes over it anymore. You screwed yourselves, which is why public opinion isn't swaying no matter how much you scream.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-10-07 21:00:03
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I mean seriously, can you imagine what public opinion would be like after this "scandal" if the massive dud of all duds Russia investigation wasn't shoved down our throats for years? Or if the media didn't spend so much freaking time dissecting every little thing Trump does and says and blowing it completely out of proportion?

Instead, this "scandal" is just the status quo with an extra helping of political theater. The end result is that we have the same people getting outraged and the same people not caring.

Congratulations, you brought this on yourselves.
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By Viciouss 2019-10-07 21:07:52
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Seems like the entire GOP revolted against his Syria retreat today. You name them, they said hell no. Lindsey Graham led the charge, Mitch McConnell, Nikki Haley, Ted Cruz, Liz Cheney, literally everyone except Rand Paul blasted Trump's tantrum driven decision.

If Trump's goal was to change the topic, its not working out. Nobody wants anything to do with this blunder.
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By Viciouss 2019-10-07 21:10:13
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Trump saying mean things on Twitter was an impeachable offense for you guys. You dropped the bar so low that nobody cares what goes over it anymore. You screwed yourselves, which is why public opinion isn't swaying no matter how much you scream.

Its been fun to watch you ignore public opinion turning against Trump, as his disapproval rating, which you have always pretended doesn't exist, rises and support for impeachment grows. But sure, we will just believe you when you say public opinion is staying the same.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2019-10-07 21:36:01
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Official Who Heard Call Says Trump Got 'Rolled' By Turkey and 'Has No Spine'
Newsweek

There is no TLDR for this.
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By Nausi 2019-10-07 21:40:08
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Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
Nausi said: »
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
Nausi said: »
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
Nausi said: »
We have already explained how Trump is enforcing the law, by requesting Ukraine's help in an ongoing investigation by the AG and justice department.
You have neglected to respond to that point and have insisted that because it doesn't reinforce your point, but instead refutes it, it must be "deflection".

That is sophistry.

Yet you are being dishonest. We've explained to you as well that there is no ongoing investigation into Biden, merely Trump seeking dirt on him. I'm sure that is very typical in politics, but where Trump crossed the line was in seeking that information from a foreign national. The reason that this is considered illegal is because foreign nationals will have their own interests in mind, which does not coincide with the best interests of America.

Uhhh, no. You're still missing the mark. The U.S. gets help from foreign officials on a regular basis for intelligence relating to investigations. It's okay if you don't know the law, but don't pretend that you do. Cite an official source to back your exact assertion and we can talk.

There is no investigation into Biden, I think that is where the fallacy in your argument lies. The source of Trump seeking damaging information from the Ukraine is on video, he admitted to it. I don't have a link to that right now, but I'm sure I can get one. I just didn't think that was in question...or are you attempting one of those "goal post movements" where you ask me to prove something, then I prove it, and then you say the proof doesn't prove it? I'm beginning to see the method to your madness.
Barr is investigating the origins of the steele dossier which lead to the unauthorized spying on the Trump campaign. Biden's influences on Ukraine are most certainly related to that.

Those are really wild conspiracy theories. You're very creative.
How is it a conspiracy theory?

con·spir·a·cy the·o·ry
noun
a belief that some covert but influential person or organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.

"Barr is investigating the origins of the steele dossier which lead to the unauthorized spying on the Trump campaign. Biden's influences on Ukraine are most certainly related to that."
Are you unfamiliar with Ukraines role in the steele dossier?
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By Viciouss 2019-10-07 21:40:38
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We already knew Trump melted down with Erdogan back in December when Mattie resigned, every boneheaded decision he makes is impulsive and on the fly. Where are his babysitters?
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By Nausi 2019-10-07 21:41:35
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
OK, let's summarize.

If there was a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company, Barr could ask any government on the planet to aid in the investigation.

Even if there was a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company, Trump's "nice country you have there it would be a shame if Russia happened to it" act would still be an impeachable offense.

But there isn't a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company.

This does not make in any way Trump's "nice country you have there it would be a shame if Russia happened to it" act any less impeachable.
Trump literally asked the guy to cooperate with Barr and his investigation.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-10-07 21:52:58
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Viciouss said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Trump saying mean things on Twitter was an impeachable offense for you guys. You dropped the bar so low that nobody cares what goes over it anymore. You screwed yourselves, which is why public opinion isn't swaying no matter how much you scream.

Its been fun to watch you ignore public opinion turning against Trump, as his disapproval rating, which you have always pretended doesn't exist, rises and support for impeachment grows. But sure, we will just believe you when you say public opinion is staying the same.

Just stop talking about polls, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. His disapproval rating now is the same that it was for almost the entirety of August, and he wasn't in any danger of impeachment then either. It's well within the normal up and down movement that his ratings have been following since March.
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By Viciouss 2019-10-07 21:58:13
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Just stop talking about polls, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. His disapproval rating now is the same that it was for almost the entirety of August, and he wasn't in any danger of impeachment then either. It's well within the normal up and down movement that his ratings have been following since March.

Why would I stop talking about polls when they are favorable for the Democrats and their agenda? Trump has a negative approval rating, he isn't popular with a majority of Americans and he never has been. Nothing he has done has changed his unpopularity. Americans voted for exactly whats happening right now. So what exactly did we bring on ourselves? The support of the public? Yeah, we will take that. 2020 has been looking great for the EC since the 2018 election.
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By Viciouss 2019-10-07 22:00:11
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Nausi said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
OK, let's summarize.

If there was a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company, Barr could ask any government on the planet to aid in the investigation.

Even if there was a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company, Trump's "nice country you have there it would be a shame if Russia happened to it" act would still be an impeachable offense.

But there isn't a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company.

This does not make in any way Trump's "nice country you have there it would be a shame if Russia happened to it" act any less impeachable.
Trump literally asked the guy to cooperate with Barr and his investigation.

Reminder that this still isn't true. Trump asked Ukraine to begin an investigation into Joe Biden, whom AG Barr is not investigating in any way. He offered Barr's assistance, which reports have said Barr was not amused with. He doesn't like being put in the same sentence as that idiot Giulani. Can't blame him, his fabricated Biden story led to an impeachment inquiry.
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By Viciouss 2019-10-07 22:01:12
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Nausi said: »
Are you unfamiliar with Ukraines role in the steele dossier?

Along with the rest of the world. I would ask for a source, but we all know there isn't one.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-10-07 23:14:14
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Viciouss said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Just stop talking about polls, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. His disapproval rating now is the same that it was for almost the entirety of August, and he wasn't in any danger of impeachment then either. It's well within the normal up and down movement that his ratings have been following since March.

Why would I stop talking about polls when they are favorable for the Democrats and their agenda? Trump has a negative approval rating, he isn't popular with a majority of Americans and he never has been. Nothing he has done has changed his unpopularity. Americans voted for exactly whats happening right now. So what exactly did we bring on ourselves? The support of the public? Yeah, we will take that. 2020 has been looking great for the EC since the 2018 election.

Usually when I say "you have no clue what you're talking about", your best bet is to say nothing. Instead, you doubled down with more evidence that you have no clue what you're talking about.
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By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-10-07 23:24:28
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Congratulations, you brought this on yourselves.

Uh, brought what on?
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-10-07 23:29:35
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Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Congratulations, you brought this on yourselves.

Uh, brought what on?

I thought that was pretty clear from my comments, but I'll try again. To put it simply, Democrats brought on the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" situation that they're in now, where relatively major things would have had a much bigger impact if they didn't inundate the populace with imaginary and/or minor things. The fact that this isn't hurting Trump's polling nearly as much as you would think it would (despite what Vic says, although you seemingly haven't figured out how clueless he is yet) is strong evidence of that.
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By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-10-07 23:31:22
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Nausi said: »
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
Nausi said: »
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
Nausi said: »
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
Nausi said: »
We have already explained how Trump is enforcing the law, by requesting Ukraine's help in an ongoing investigation by the AG and justice department.
You have neglected to respond to that point and have insisted that because it doesn't reinforce your point, but instead refutes it, it must be "deflection".

That is sophistry.

Yet you are being dishonest. We've explained to you as well that there is no ongoing investigation into Biden, merely Trump seeking dirt on him. I'm sure that is very typical in politics, but where Trump crossed the line was in seeking that information from a foreign national. The reason that this is considered illegal is because foreign nationals will have their own interests in mind, which does not coincide with the best interests of America.

Uhhh, no. You're still missing the mark. The U.S. gets help from foreign officials on a regular basis for intelligence relating to investigations. It's okay if you don't know the law, but don't pretend that you do. Cite an official source to back your exact assertion and we can talk.

There is no investigation into Biden, I think that is where the fallacy in your argument lies. The source of Trump seeking damaging information from the Ukraine is on video, he admitted to it. I don't have a link to that right now, but I'm sure I can get one. I just didn't think that was in question...or are you attempting one of those "goal post movements" where you ask me to prove something, then I prove it, and then you say the proof doesn't prove it? I'm beginning to see the method to your madness.
Barr is investigating the origins of the steele dossier which lead to the unauthorized spying on the Trump campaign. Biden's influences on Ukraine are most certainly related to that.

Those are really wild conspiracy theories. You're very creative.
How is it a conspiracy theory?

con·spir·a·cy the·o·ry
noun
a belief that some covert but influential person or organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.

"Barr is investigating the origins of the steele dossier which lead to the unauthorized spying on the Trump campaign. Biden's influences on Ukraine are most certainly related to that."
Are you unfamiliar with Ukraines role in the steele dossier?

Are you unfamiliar with Agent Orange selling out our democracy, our freedom, our patriotism, our constitution to a foreign national?

How important is it for you to be right in a debate?
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-10-07 23:33:29
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Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
selling out our democracy, our freedom, our patriotism, our constitution

Well, there goes my biggest eyeroll of the night. Are you making an argument or a stump speech?
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By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-10-07 23:36:34
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Nausi said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
OK, let's summarize.

If there was a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company, Barr could ask any government on the planet to aid in the investigation.

Even if there was a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company, Trump's "nice country you have there it would be a shame if Russia happened to it" act would still be an impeachable offense.

But there isn't a justice department investigation into the Bidens, or that Ukrainian gas company.

This does not make in any way Trump's "nice country you have there it would be a shame if Russia happened to it" act any less impeachable.
Trump literally asked the guy to cooperate with Barr and his investigation.

Trump literally asked a foreign national to contribute information on a political opponent to sway the 2020 election. Trump doesn't even have enough confidence in himself to win legitimately.
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By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-10-07 23:38:31
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
selling out our democracy, our freedom, our patriotism, our constitution

Well, there goes my biggest eyeroll of the night. Are you making an argument or a stump speech?

So tell me, after your biggest eyeroll, did you any brain cells?
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-10-07 23:39:52
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Okay, yeah. Saevel was right. Way too much opinion and pontification here, not enough actual facts.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-10-07 23:40:53
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Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
So tell me, after your biggest eyeroll, did you any brain cells?

Did I any brain cells? Sorry, had to quote this before you deleted it, because the irony is just too good.
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By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-10-07 23:46:25
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Ragnarok.Ozment said: »
So tell me, after your biggest eyeroll, did you any brain cells?

Did I any brain cells? Sorry, had to quote this before you deleted it, because the irony is just too good.

What is in your avatar? It looks like a pen leaked.
 Ragnarok.Ozment
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By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-10-07 23:48:06
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Okay, yeah. Saevel was right. Way too much opinion and pontification here, not enough actual facts.

Are you his protege?
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