Why Does Zenith Hate Us?

Keep in mind that 1)SCH has Stormsurge, gaining an extra 7 INT from Hailstorm, and 2)Access to two different sources of added MACC:

--Klimaform, which seems to add anywhere between 20 and 40~50 M.ACC, idk I don't do much testing on MP jobs >.>

--Focalization, a Dark Arts merit Stratagem that gives +5 M.ACC per merit, up to +25 at cap.

That set says 113 INT.

I am still waiting for your resist set Eter!

Wouldn't this beat the INT+2 tathlum in some situations?

Indeed it would, IF your "some situations" limited to Campaign >.>

Lol, but yes, if you're not concerned with nuke damage at all, Sturm's Report would be better.

That being said, if your dINT is more than 10, 1 INT=1 M.ACC so it will depend on the mob type.

Set give 113INT, but I always use cream puffs, which takes it up to 120INT total

everyone who is saying that zenith for sch would not over powered is just silly, I have leveled both, you can look at my gear sets and merits

on non days my sch will out nuke my blm on puddings, you simply cannot deny it (something like 1631-1712), granted that gap is not that high but if you compare the mp total differences between my jobs, blm is clearly stonger (using ebullience not parsimony) My blm gets around 1000 mp on the full nuke set, while my sch gets prob 870? if you gave my sch zenith hands? thats 1000 to 920, and then sch will pull ahead, simply put, the sch will put out slightly bigger numbers, but that doesn't mean much when you lose 150 mp off on a base set? (dont start chatting about sublimation, i will start going on about larger aspirs + conserve mp and we will get no where)

My blm CAN consistently solo chain 5 on a non day
my sch CAN NOT

Take it as you will, I'm a still blm main with sch leveled (waiting for a blm update >.>)

Edit: I have a 330-130 resist set on my blm, and my sch can still step on the toes of my blm, so yes zenith would be OP on sch, in general, and the whole bs over the zenith crown vs sch hat? you ger 35 more mp with the zenith >.> take that into account too

At most 1 MACC over the Tathlum, I use Phantom Tathlum for nukes and Sturm's Report for Enfeebling and Dark Magic.

EDIT: Overpowered wut? More like pointless and potentially detrimental due to lowering your max HP. Not that you get a full Sublimation charge often anyway, but the point stands. Only piece that would actually do anything for you is the mitts and what are those lovely Vicious Mufflers I see over there...

Everything else is an buff set piece at most. Read: Zenith Crown.

But SCH has better Aspirs and is the Conserve MP poster job, with a -10% base reduction, Conserve MP trait, and Sublimation, it should really be the other way around, with SCH lasting longer than BLM.

Edit: And Parsimony when your MP is running low to tide you over for next Aspir cast.

Can your sch solo chain 5 consistently on non days? and if you use parsimony, you lose the big numbers you are flaming over?

I can, and do. I use almost exclusively parsimony when it really matters.

A naked SCH is more MP-efficient than a fully-geared BLM, in terms of Damage:MP ratio.

What Eternius said.

Also, lol @ big numbers. Efficiency is the name of the game.

wtf are you sch doing not max meriting modus veritas anyways

This whole flame war in the beginning was about damage, and i highly doubt you solo chain 5 as consistently as my blm, esp using parsimony later on, The chain 5 timer is rather short

(i'm pretty sure we have all read kaeko theroy)
Each has its own use, and in the end my blm is more efficient than my sch, thats just my two cents

Tempy can I ask you about your resist set?
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=85922

I count 323 skill and 131 INT (assuming Taru with INT merits)

Am I missing something?

Cough BS

How the hell does a job with less dark skill aspir better? Also how is it he conserve mp poster job when blm always had it but they eventually added it to sch. Yes sch can last longer however it will come at the cost of not using ebullience. That -10% and sublimation will about make up for the less mp.

Macc is 1 to 1 with skill? so the +7 macc equates to the 323+7 macc = 330 skill, and why yes, i am a taru with INT merits :D



Sadly it has been calculated that a naked sch (parsimony) vs a geared blm is more mp efficient, assuming no resists



Agreed, my blm gets more dark skill, hands down, i run a 311 skill + 14 Macc dark build, my sch comes no where near that

Bottom line, Sch is stepping on BLM toes, fine? give em zenith without giving blm something? blms will indeed be a bit obsolete

I'd like to see these calculations. All I have to do is double your dmg to be more mp efficient well or have some conserve mps kick in. Also your nekkid sch IS gunna get resisted lol. Go out nuking nakked or not in mage gear. I do it a bit on rdm and yeah it can often be like half the dmg lol

Kaeko did some theorycrafting that was dependent on both jobs going unresisted that suggested a naked Parsimony SCH outnukes a fully geared BLM over time. Given a fully geared SCH, the gap widens.

Protip: SCH gets Conserve MP as well. This is averages, not crappy short-term testing.

And honestly... if a BLM is consistently doing twice the damage per nuke of a SCH, the SCH is doing it so very wrong.

The true limiting factor in a competitive parse would eventually be enmity generation, which led Kaeko to propose an enmity down nuking build. If you're running up against the hate threshold on a regular basis it's an interesting idea, but provided your tanks can cap hate before you catch up and maintain that level of hate I don't see the point.

I agree that a scholar can tack on a higher nuke than a blm when all the MAB is stacked. They are still limited to JAs and stacking mb means casting preperatory spells.

I once was soloing puddings next to this Japanese SCH and was racing the taru sch with my mithra BLM and I admit the little dude was killing faster. He was doing more mana conserving than MAB which gave more mana to damage efficiency. For killing stuff like puddings sch can be more fun and efficent. Killing puddings with SCH is fun.

However to HNMLS, sky, dynamis, pretty much any lvl 80+ NM a BLM is still better for magic damage imo given the elemental magic advantage blm has than sch to avoid those resists.

so yes I agree that there are situations where a SCH can outperform BLM in nuking like puddings but the player has to have his macros in order. Most nuking situations I prefer BLM not just for magic accuracy on high NMs but that I tend to go Addendum: White and help healing and you cant do both Black and White the same time without burning 2 JAs to start.

When I do any events with a group as sch I ussually consider myself a healer/buffer and can detour into Black for some happy nuking when to time presents itself.

but is SCH>BLM? Thats too general of a statement to make because in most situations for nuking BLM>SCH imo.

Oh yea!
A couple of weeks ago I chainspelled and tossed out like 7 tier3 nukes on a Dyna Boss, counted my damage (elemental 8/8) and accumilated more MD than any of the BLMs on the boss. You will not find me stating RDM>BLM! for nukes over it, that is just silly. I also admit that those BLMs were getting alot of resists but thier elemental was not built up like Zoey.

the scholar would be doing very very wrong, as i stated before my sch can indeed peak at a higher level but seriously, my taru sch gets ~870 in the nuking set, that is just not kosher with me >.>

And btw, that optimal sch nuking gear that was listed before?
"http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=107167"

low on mp+, definitely not kosher with me, gotta factor in practicality, cant just be like zomg 1 million mab, with 7 mp (exaggeration don't quote this with a silly comment)... it does nothing, mp balance is a very fine rope to walk on especially for sch.

i dislike wasting the 150 mp i lose moving from standing to nuking set

Protip conserve mp cuts more mp off if your spending more!!! Also you didnt say a sch you said a naked sch. If a geared blm can't do twice the dmg of a naked hell blm there doing something wrong.
Also you can't assume no resist especailly as a sch. Also mob and spell would make a bit of difference since on anything worthwhile naked you'll have a seriously negative dint. This all becomes completely moot if the blm goes /sch. Also if your counting parsimony you can't count on ebbulience so stop counting both at the same time.

Who the *** nukes using Ebullience? No, really, what dumbass decided that was a better idea than Parsimony? Do the math, Parsimony destroys Ebullience for DoT. The only time it's worthwhile is against crap mobs if it saves you a nuke and thus time and MP. Even then you may lose some MP but the time saved compensates.

Your Conserve MP math is garbage because it won't save enough to make up the difference and I specifically said assuming no resists. Naked BLMs will not in fact do half the damage on an unresisted nuke of a fully geared one, nor a naked SCH/RDM, but you're spouting *** yet again rather than working it out so I suppose I should just ignore you because I honestly don't have the time or patience to lay it all out for you right now.

Yeah the numbers on that screen shot are messed up, definately, i nuke with less mab than that and i hit like 1630 ish? on the non day, sorry Enternius, my blm does than your scholar, and if your preaching so hard about sch being better than blm, then by your logic my sch is UNDOUBTEDLY better than your sch, and if i say my blm > my sch, then my blm is better than your sch :P (and i'm not just saying damage, i'm saying efficiency too)

My sch > Enternius sch
my blm > my sch
so....
my blm > Enternius sch

Edit: >.> yeah i'm going to get back on topic and say that, if sch did get zenith blm would need something else <.<

Prove to me how you can do more then half the dmg of someone with over 30-40 more MAB then you staffs and probably a good 40 more int. Your the one spouting garbage. ANd once again assuming no resist is like saying I can hit kirin with blind potion on lol

Fine I'll do some math. Using my gear merits and base int and such. I believe it was stated before that sch has like what 5 less base int? I'll just assume SS and give you +2 more base. On blm/sch I have 85 base int and 42MAB so I'll say on sch/rdm with icestorm I'll have 87 and 20MAB. Now my gear puts me at +28MAB and +46int on ice spells if I'm not using ugg pendant or replublic crown (notice I'm actually wearing magnetic earring full time for conserve mp lol) to make it nice for you. And well use blizz4 so it benefits you the most.

The dmg equation ignnoring multitarget weather/day (cause your nekkid) resist (cause you said so) MDB (cause its puddings) and MB stuff (cause were soloing here) is D*staff*MAB*magic adjustment for mobs like puddings it applies to.

For dINT > 0, but less than some inflection point: D = V + (dINT * M)

For dINT < 0: D = V + dINT (when dINT is a penalty, the tier mult. is always 1)

So all I need to do is make my staff*MAB*magic adjustment* (V+(dint*M)) be at least 2*your(MAB*magic adjustment*(V+dint*M)) lets just kill the magic adjustment here since it cancels out. Also state blizz4s V=506 and M = 2.0 for all tier IV and Ancient Magic spells. Except of course like said above if your got a -dint. So lets use the generaic mobs aren't gunna have more then 110int as what we will use. Though to be fair the lower the int gets until it gets to dint=0 on sch the more it will favor blm.

staff*MAB*(V+(dint*M))=MAB*(V+(dint*M)) fill stuff in its

1.15*1.7*(506+(dint*2))=1.2(506+(dint*1))

1.955(506+ding*2)=1.2(506+dint)

1.955(506+ 2(131-110))= 1.2(506+(87-110)

1.955(506+42)= 1.2(506-23)

1071.34=579.6... ok only 85% more dmg lol and as dint becomes bigger it will just favor the blm more unitl sch can get dint>0.

Now lets try a morrigan and ugg pendant and novio build just for fun. So that would be +48int and +45MAB
So 1.15*1.87(506+ 2(133-110)=1187 so over 2X dmg.

Notice once again because of the tier multiplier until sch finally gets out of the dint<0 any changes in int will have a much bigger effect on blm. Well even before that cause of the staff bonus and MAB but I mean just inside the brackets.

For example D for sch at say idk mob int 110 was 483 and if it was say just 1 int over at 88 it would be 505 a mere increase of 4.55% while the morrigan user was 552 at 110 mobint but at 88 mob int itd be 596 an increase of 7.97%

Thought its a bit impossible to get that high ele skill and INT he mentions with the gear he listed. I dont know how he's doing that, if he is, which is why I've asked him twice how he does it.

I think hes taking klimaform into account. In which case hes just waiting to cast that same 1 nuke again lol. So sure its more mp efficient and the blm just threw down 4 more and rested. I might add it also depends on what HNM and how your fighting it. If your fighting one with nasty tp moves and don't have lots of healing support for your tank or just don't want to bring it it behooves you to give as little tp to the mob as possible. So like only cast after sam skillchains or if your only doing blm dmg then freee nuke... either way Bigger less frequent or higher cost would beat smaller more frequent/cheaper spells. Otherwise you could just get a nin/blm using the new ja and spamming the wheel from behind nonstop... hell I bet you can get some nice DPS from taht

Klimaform neither adds INT nor Ele skill, unless he's converting the M.acc into ele skill

Exactly just like hes probably converting his macc in his gear to skill. I would anyways. Hes also probably assuming food/icestorm int too