Fudo Masamune? Pros/Cons

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Fudo Masamune? Pros/Cons
 Ragnarok.Haxetc
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By Ragnarok.Haxetc 2019-01-07 18:33:00
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who needs tp bonus off hand when you're spamming metsu anyways? :^)
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By Taint 2019-01-07 18:34:26
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Ragnarok.Haxetc said: »
who needs tp bonus off hand when you're spamming metsu anyways? :^)

/thread
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-01-07 19:16:58
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Bismarck.Lilmartio said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I don't have any Su5 weapons so asking for someone who knows: can you switch paths on a current weapon to another (i.e. you are Path C tanking but want to go Path B for whatever reason)?
No you can't switch paths.


This is absolutely absurd. REMAs have one but these have 3(1). Would have been more appealing if either: augments could be used in offhand or the paths could be changed at will
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-01-07 19:36:16
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Afania said: »
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
On a straight melee job though, the amount of extra time to get to 1000 TP and use the TP bonus should be more than balanced out by using a weapon that doesn't require you sacrifice atk buffs for acc buffs to make it work and will get TP faster.

At least in the case of blu, this is false. Tp bonus offhand does come out higher in terms of theorical dps and real parses. Several people that I know of have been using them and parsed. It's real strong.

On other job it can be more tricky because of lower acc.

I know some people can't understand the concept of using a lv 99 weapon in ilv 119+++++ era. But that's just how it goes.

Double Madrigal should be the standard buff for any semi high lv pt with Rema brd, imo. Acc songs are far more potent than attack songs. If you can't cap attack, stack attack+ def- from other sources such as debuff ws. There are tons of debuffs gives straight % for def-, by comparsion static attack+ from songs rarely worth the song slot, especially when dd sacrifice 1000 tp bonus or MA/stp(stats that you can't get anywhere else) for it.

So, I have a question then. Do you cap atk with just geo buffs and honor march, because at the same time you're talking about dropping atk brd buffs for madrigals, wars and drks are talking about how with brd buffs and geo you don't need chaos roll.

Obviously, ideally you don't want to mix dd types in a pt, but there are a lot of assumptions and ifs in the argument.

It's basically saying "Yeah, it's great.... as long as these 5-6 things are true."
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By Afania 2019-01-07 23:16:49
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
wars and drks are talking about how with brd buffs and geo you don't need chaos roll.

Even if that's the case Id still take 1000 tp bonus using chaos/sam over no tp bonus + sam/da roll all day everyday. 1000 tp bonus is bigger gain than da roll.

Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »

Obviously, ideally you don't want to mix dd types in a pt,

The DD type will always be mixed because cor takes permanent spot in high lv pt. So double madrigal will benefit someone regardless.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-01-08 01:29:43
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Asura.Snapster said: »
For Ambuscade, unless some buffs fall off I have had 0 less than 100k Blade: Shuns on this month using Kanaria.
Not sure january's ambuscade is worth mentioning.
Damage is like, what, multiplied by 10?
I could reach 99k with Exenterator on BRD lol, says a lot xD

Afania said: »
Acc songs are far more potent than attack songs.
Not trying to deny what you wrote because it's absolutely true.
The "price" to pay for Madrigals being so potent is that, unlike most other Acc+ buffs, it only affects melee accuracy but not ranged accuracy. This ultimately sorta hurts NIN, moderately, because of Daken.

One thing to point out about Minuets (att songs) is that sure, they are by comparison less powerful than acc songs compared to other jobs.
The good part though is that they are static values, not %.
This means they are calculated BEFORE other att% buffs and as such multiplied by them.
Stuff like Smite, Berserk, Chaos roll, Fury, all indirectly make Minuets stronger and viceversa Minuets make those buffs stronger simply because they affect your base attack before the att% bonus is applied.

Again, not to deny what you said, but it's something to keep into consideration.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-01-08 01:35:22
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
This is absolutely absurd. REMAs have one but these have 3(1). Would have been more appealing if either: augments could be used in offhand or the paths could be changed at will
I can understand the aug not working offhand.
We're all in pain for that, but at the same time I'm sure we can all understand why augs don't work offhand.

The fact Aug can't be swapped though is absolute ***. I'm confident and positive they're gonna patch at least that in the future.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-01-08 08:24:36
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Afania said: »
Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
wars and drks are talking about how with brd buffs and geo you don't need chaos roll.

Even if that's the case Id still take 1000 tp bonus using chaos/sam over no tp bonus + sam/da roll all day everyday. 1000 tp bonus is bigger gain than da roll.

This is my point actually. It's a bigger gain, for you, not for the group as a whole.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-01-08 11:06:43
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
So, I have a question then. Do you cap atk with just geo buffs and honor march, because at the same time you're talking about dropping atk brd buffs for madrigals, wars and drks are talking about how with brd buffs and geo you don't need chaos roll.

He's doing low level content, magian off hand is 200~300 loss in accuracy which is crippling on anything worth discussing.

BRD songs are base attack which has an astronomical effect due to attack buffs being percentages of that base.

For a WAR
Smite: 19.9%
Berserk: 35%
Idris Fury: 61.7
Chaos: 53.12

Total: 169.7% increase.

+Attack
Honor March: 232 * 2.697 = +625 Attack
Min V: 233 * 2.697 = +628 Attack

1100~1200 is about what most jobs have for base attack prior to the percentage multipliers so HM and VM basically double your attack value. The attack cap is really high now, especially with PDL.

DRK Previous (just example since theirs is the highest)
Before 3.75 pDiffMax for a 4.125 attack cap.

Now (3.75 + 0.5) * 1.10 = 4.675 + 0.375 = 5.05 attack cap.

That means over 5x the monsters defense is needed to cap attack and anything worth discussing has a few thousand defense, which makes it functionally impossible without lots of defense down. Bolster isn't a 24/7 ability regardless on how some people like to pretend it is and SE's has been creating boss's that are resistant to Geomancy.

So attack buffs are still needed for serious stuff, we don't go all in but we don't ignore them either.
 Ragnarok.Haxetc
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By Ragnarok.Haxetc 2019-01-08 11:11:15
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Just get kikoku and OH fudo. Ez attack
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-01-08 11:14:22
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Asura.Saevel said: »
base attack prior to the percentage multipliers

Asura.Saevel said: »
so HM and VM basically double your attack value


Uh... no. If you're talking base attack, then HM and Min5 are 465 and add maybe 1/3. You can't take the post-multiplier value of songs and compare it to the pre-multiplier value of everything else, that is silly.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-01-08 11:45:24
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Ragnarok.Haxetc said: »
Just get kikoku and OH fudo. Ez attack

This appears to be the most sensible Katana combination that covers most of a Ninja's needs when it isn't able to be buffed out the bandwidth (missing a GEO or COR). Attack (loads of it), Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy. In the ideal situation where you're getting full buffs, you'd default to Heishi/Kanaria(Ochu) and spam Ten. More often than not, I've found myself in a less-than-ideal buff scenario on NIN, unless I'm in an event that is low on DD or catered to my NIN specifically (this month's ambuscade).

I don't have the cash right now to delve into Making Kikoku and R15 it, as well as buying a Fudo Masamune, but in the future for me, its a nice goal to have both sets of Katanas ready for whatever buff situation you find yourself in.
 Ragnarok.Haxetc
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By Ragnarok.Haxetc 2019-01-08 12:20:35
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Best part about offhand fudo is you don't even have to augment it. Unless you really want that extra base damage lol
 Asura.Meliorah
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By Asura.Meliorah 2019-01-08 12:26:07
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All augments are active only when the weapon is in your Main Hand. This includes the +7 damage.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-01-08 12:35:22
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Actually if you don't plan on tanking or using it as a main hand option in place of your REMA, there is no reason to augment it. It becomes the perfect offhand option for most needs.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2019-01-31 16:06:40
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Actually if you don't plan on tanking or using it as a main hand option in place of your REMA, there is no reason to augment it. It becomes the perfect offhand option for most needs.

Way late to this reply, but what the heck...

Why forego the ability to have a top tier tanking mainhand for minimal additional effort? Unless you truly can't ever conceive of a niche for NIN tanking (which seems kinda weird, since it does occasionally have its moments), there's really only one compelling reason to avoid augmenting - and that's to preserve the ability to re-sell the unaugmented weapon.

If you're not planning to sell, might as well open path C to make your situationally excellent DD offhand pull double duty as one of the two most significant mainhand tanking weapons (along with Nagi). It doesn't even take maxing out the augment, once you get to like rank 8~10ish with Fudo the tanking benefits start to become very significant. That's only a couple of good Divergence farming runs, even if you refuse to spend any Heroism items with Oboro.

No, it's probably not going to be your usual mainhand choice. But it sure is nice to have the option when NIN tanking is handy on an NM (various Ambuscade mobs, Halphas, etc.), or when a tank dies and you jump in on the fly on a temporary basis and instantly change to "tanking mode" by popping Yonin and swapping your DD mainhand out.
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